Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

Daniel C said:

A person who has received the free eternal gift of salvation after being born again can never lose their salvation.

They can be scourge by God in this life but they cannot lose salvation.

Hebrews 12:6
''For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.''

Click to expand...

So a person who kills Christians will go to heaven without repentance. Ok thanks that’s all I needed to know.

BNR32FAN said:

So a person who kills Christians will go to heaven without repentance. Ok thanks that’s all I needed to know.

Click to expand...

You only repent one time as Jesus shows

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

A change of mind before accepting God and receiving the free eternal gift of salvation.


Glad to be of help though.

Daniel C said:

Of course I could. The reason I asked is because you blended your commentary and scripture together as if the two are the same and I know they're not.

I was being polite by not accusing you and just asking you to present your position.

Matthew chapter 25 is all parables and should be treated as such. Used for teaching or learning purposes but not base doctrines off.

Click to expand...

Baloney. On all counts. They're both in chapter 25, directly adjacent to each other. And baloney that parables shouldn't be the basis of doctrine. First of all, it's not a doctrine. Secondly, the parables often point to our doctrines. Where does it ever say that we shouldn't use parables to base doctrine from?

Root of Jesse said:

Baloney. On all counts. They're both in chapter 25, directly adjacent to each other. And baloney that parables shouldn't be the basis of doctrine. First of all, it's not a doctrine. Secondly, the parables often point to our doctrines. Where does it ever say that we shouldn't use parables to base doctrine from?

Click to expand...

No sir, You definitely blended your commentary in with the Scripture. I see no quotation marks or scripture quotations. Only "I never knew you" but I can tell you were trying to use more than that:

Root of Jesse said:

you were never good enough to merit heaven, but because you follow the will of the Father, you must feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, comfort the sick and in prison. If you don't, when you knock on heaven's door, Jesus will say "I never knew you."

Click to expand...

The post is still there (above) so I can see what you wrote,why would you doubt that.

Accusing of me of not knowing the scripture is just ignorant,I was in another thread at the same time discussing chapter 25 and its content when you accused me of not knowing it,just ignorant. What does one have to do to hear the words "Well done good and faithful servant"?

In my opinion it's better to base doctrine off a Jesus who is talking plainly not metaphorically or in a parable.

Daniel C said:

You only repent one time as Jesus shows

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

A change of mind before accepting God and receiving the free eternal gift of salvation.


Glad to be of help though.

Click to expand...

Repentance is a constant way of life. The Greek word metanoia means not only a change of mind but also a change of heart or direction. It is a 180 degree turn away from sin and towards God. Every time we sin we must repent. Notice Jesus’ messages to the 7 churches in Revalation.

“'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:2-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:13-16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

Repentance is a constant way of life. The Greek word metanoia means not only a change of mind but also a change of heart or direction. It is a 180 degree turn away from sin and towards God. Every time we sin we must repent. Notice Jesus’ messages to the 7 churches in Revalation.

“'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:2-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:13-16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Click to expand...

I disagree ''repentance is a way of life'' it is a one time action,change of heart to accept the Gospel.

As for all this Greek definitions and re-definitions you keep bringing up:


Proverbs 3:5
''Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.''

Daniel C said:

I disagree ''repentance is a way of life'' it is a one time action,change of heart to accept the Gospel.

As for all this Greek definitions and re-definitions you keep bringing up:


Proverbs 3:5
''Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.''

Click to expand...

Lean not to thine own understanding

The verses I just posted were straight forward messages from Jesus to the churches in Asia who had already repented once otherwise they couldn’t be a Christian church to begin with and yet Jesus tells them to repent. How can you not see this?

The only reason you reject the Greek definitions is because they prove you wrong. I bet if they proved you right you would be posting them yourself. The authors of the New Testament wrote the scriptures in Greek. The problem is that some Greek words cannot be translated by a single English word because their meaning cannot be fully expressed by single words in English. That’s why so many people study the Greek definitions in order to get a more comprehensive understanding of the message that the New Testament authors were trying to convey. That’s also why those who don’t study the Greek definitions often cannot interpret scripture correctly. This is why in some places the scriptures say to believe in order to be saved and in other places it says to refrain from sin and in other places it says to bear fruit and do good works. All of these are included in the Greek words pistis, pisteuo, and pistos which all include a level of faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty.

Daniel C said:

No sir, You definitely blended your commentary in with the Scripture. I see no quotation marks or scripture quotations. Only "I never knew you" but I can tell you were trying to use more than that:




The post is still there (above) so I can see what you wrote,why would you doubt that.

Accusing of me of not knowing the scripture is just ignorant,I was in another thread at the same time discussing chapter 25 and its content when you accused me of not knowing it,just ignorant. What does one have to do to hear the words "Well done good and faithful servant"?

In my opinion it's better to base doctrine off a Jesus who is talking plainly not metaphorically or in a parable.

Click to expand...

Well, good for you, you (think) you know Scripture...

Regarding your opinion, Jesus is always speaking plainly, even if metaphorically. All you have to do is identify which character is God. But there's a problem, too. In John 6, Jesus plainly tells his followers that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life. Catholics and Orthodox believe they do actually eat His flesh and drink His blood. Most others think it's a metaphor, and so they don't follow it. Like those who turned away and went back to their former lives. So Jesus speaks plainly, and you call it metaphor. Makes it easy to obscure the real meaning, doesn't it?

Daniel C said:

No sir, You definitely blended your commentary in with the Scripture. I see no quotation marks or scripture quotations. Only "I never knew you" but I can tell you were trying to use more than that:




The post is still there (above) so I can see what you wrote,why would you doubt that.

Accusing of me of not knowing the scripture is just ignorant,I was in another thread at the same time discussing chapter 25 and its content when you accused me of not knowing it,just ignorant. What does one have to do to hear the words "Well done good and faithful servant"?

In my opinion it's better to base doctrine off a Jesus who is talking plainly not metaphorically or in a parable.

Click to expand...

You also failed to address the question I asked-where does it ever say not to use parables to form doctrine?

Root of Jesse said:

Well, good for you, you (think) you know Scripture...

Regarding your opinion, Jesus is always speaking plainly, even if metaphorically. All you have to do is identify which character is God. But there's a problem, too. In John 6, Jesus plainly tells his followers that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life. Catholics and Orthodox believe they do actually eat His flesh and drink His blood. Most others think it's a metaphor, and so they don't follow it. Like those who turned away and went back to their former lives. So Jesus speaks plainly, and you call it metaphor. Makes it easy to obscure the real meaning, doesn't it?

Click to expand...

No, he is not always speaking plainly and I can prove it. The Apostles couldn't understand what he meant,because he spoke in parables and metaphors:

John 16:18
They (Apostles) said therefore, What is this that he (Jesus) saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

They were without understanding because Jesus did not speak plainly to them.

Later on in the conversation he spoke plainly:

John 16:29-30
''His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.''

Can you see there is a difference or not?

Root of Jesse said:

You also failed to address the question I asked-where does it ever say not to use parables to form doctrine?

Click to expand...

I said in my opinion doctrines should not be based off parables,because Jesus is not speaking plainly. I don't think scripture holds a position one way or another on this issue.

Root of Jesse said:

You also failed to address the question I asked-where does it ever say not to use parables to form doctrine?

Click to expand...

Sola scriptura is only relevant when it suits their beliefs.

Daniel C said:

No, he is not always speaking plainly and I can prove it. The Apostles couldn't understand what he meant,because he spoke in parables and metaphors:

John 16:18
They (Apostles) said therefore, What is this that he (Jesus) saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

They were without understanding because Jesus did not speak plainly to them.

Later on in the conversation he spoke plainly:

John 16:29-30
''His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.''

Can you see there is a difference or not?

Click to expand...

That’s not even a parable. He said

“"A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me."”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

That’s just saying you won’t see me for a while but after a while you’ll see me again.

The apostles just wanted to know what He meant by a little while. How long He would be away. The problem is only The Father knows when He will return. Not even Jesus knows when He will return.

BNR32FAN said:

That’s not even a parable. He said

“"A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me."”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

That’s just saying you won’t see me for a while but after a while you’ll see me again.

The apostles just wanted to know what He meant by a little while. How long He would be away. The problem is only The Father knows when He will return. Not even Jesus knows when He will return.

Click to expand...

Of hello again friend,that was a short break.

Notice in that post I said parables and metaphors.

Daniel C said:

No, he is not always speaking plainly and I can prove it. The Apostles couldn't understand what he meant,because he spoke in parables and metaphors:

John 16:18
They (Apostles) said therefore, What is this that he (Jesus) saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

They were without understanding because Jesus did not speak plainly to them.

Later on in the conversation he spoke plainly:

John 16:29-30
''His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.''

Can you see there is a difference or not?

Click to expand...

Try watching this and see if you can be saved.

Daniel C said:

No, he is not always speaking plainly and I can prove it. The Apostles couldn't understand what he meant,because he spoke in parables and metaphors:

John 16:18
They (Apostles) said therefore, What is this that he (Jesus) saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

They were without understanding because Jesus did not speak plainly to them.

Later on in the conversation he spoke plainly:

John 16:29-30
''His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.''

Can you see there is a difference or not?

Click to expand...

No. What you're saying is that the teacher didn't speak plainly, and what I know is that the apostles were the ones suffering from a lack of understanding. Of course, we see in hindsight, with the vast teaching the Church has given us. Usually, when there's a misunderstanding, it's on the part of the hearer, not on the part of the speaker. Except in cases of heavy accent or echo or something.
They were without understanding because they did not understand, not because Jesus didn't speak plainly.

Daniel C said:

I said in my opinion doctrines should not be based off parables,because Jesus is not speaking plainly. I don't think scripture holds a position one way or another on this issue.

Click to expand...

And your opinion carries weight over Church teaching? That said, you're right, there's no doctrine there, other than 'what must we do to merit heaven'? The answer is that we can do nothing to merit heaven, but we can do much to merit hell.

Daniel C said:

Of hello again friend,that was a short break.

Notice in that post I said parables and metaphors.






Try watching this and see if you can be saved.

Click to expand...

No real metaphor there, either. Just a big-time lack of understanding. And I admit to my own at times. Yesterday's gospel was about the bad steward who was fired by the master, then went and cooked the books. I always puzzled why the master said the steward was prudent for forgiving his debtors' debts. I saw it in a better light after the explanation that was taught. God is always the master in these parables where there is a master. We are the bad stewards. Everything we have is God-given-time, talent and treasure, and we often squander what gifts we have been given, therefore bad stewards. But if we can use some of our time, talent and treasure, our master's resources, to help the poor, the needy, the downtrodden, then we are being prudent. The master will recognize our prudence.

Root of Jesse said:

No. What you're saying is that the teacher didn't speak plainly, and what I know is that the apostles were the ones suffering from a lack of understanding. Of course, we see in hindsight, with the vast teaching the Church has given us. Usually, when there's a misunderstanding, it's on the part of the hearer, not on the part of the speaker. Except in cases of heavy accent or echo or something.
They were without understanding because they did not understand, not because Jesus didn't speak plainly.

Click to expand...

Yes out of choice not incompetence,Jesus never denied some of his parables were opaque either:

''And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.''


A parable is not plain talking or Jesus would be a vine and a door.

Root of Jesse said:

And your opinion carries weight over Church teaching? That said, you're right, there's no doctrine there, other than 'what must we do to merit heaven'? The answer is that we can do nothing to merit heaven, but we can do much to merit hell.

Click to expand...

Amen.This is probably the resolve for you and I on this issue.

The church and its history has no authority over me and my opinion can obviously be rejected by you,so.

I think parables because of their ambiguous nature draw works salvation people in because the language and context can be abused and misrepresented. Works salvation advocates need this as scripture doesn't support salvation by works so i'm not surprised this thread has been inundated by parable quotations.

Daniel C said:

What that shows is we are saved by Grace justified by faith alone and Christ is the propitiation. If we are saved by faith why would we be sustained by works?

Boasting is excluded, and that is what you try to do when you claim your work or effort saves you.

Click to expand...

Again, you bring up works. I'm talking about faith you are making faith into works. Weird.