Will an Antichrist Resurrect from the Dead?? Rev 13:3

Dale · Sep 20, 2019

Douggg said:
2Thessalonians2:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The person will go into the temple sit, claim to have achieved God-hood. Apparently, at the time he will do miracles to support his claim. There is a unspecified amount of time that passes between his initial claim and him being killed. The "lie" is his claim.

The delusion will be that God brings him back to life, in Isaiah 14:18-20. Plus, we don't know behind the scenes interaction between God and Satan over the matter, like in Job, when Satan was allowed to do certain things to Job, but Job wasn't told the why everything bad was happening to him

Dougg,

You have made several posts on this thread and I'm glad for your contribution.

In the OP I posed a clear logical challenge. If we are supposed to believe that an evil man, or antichrist, is resurrected from the dead, is this done by the power of Satan or by the power of God? As I said in the OP, the problem is that Satan can't do this, and God won't. God has no reason to give a special quick resurrection to a man who was the most evil man alive, maybe the most evil man who ever lived.

Satan can't and God won't, so how is this special antichrist resurrection supposed to happen? You have made a number of posts on this thread but you haven't addressed this crucial question.

Perhaps the oddest claim that I've ever come across on the identity of the antichrist is that the antichrist will be Nimrod, from Genesis 10: 8-12. Supposedly he will resurrect after being dead for thousands of years. If this sounds too bizarre to be taken seriously, I agree. Once you assume that Satan can do even a single resurrection, there is no limit to the foolishness that can be unleashed. Who says that the resurrection has to be of someone recently deceased? Anything is possible. I suggest that you abandon the notion of a satanic resurrection.

Douggg · Sep 20, 2019

Dale said:
I suggest that you abandon the notion of a satanic resurrection.

I never claimed a resurrection by Satan.

I view Isaiah 14:18-20 as God bringing the person back to life, in disdain for the person. In my view,bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion that God sends to them who believe the person's claim of having achieved God-hood in the first place, 2Thessalonians2:11.

2Thessalonians2:4 claims to have achieved God-hood; then Ezekiel 28:1-10 God has him killed; then Isaiah 14:18-20 God in disdain for the person brings him back alive.

Who says that the resurrection has to be of someone recently deceased?

Dale, there are timeframes involved for one thing.

In Revelation 13, there are 42 months left in the 7 years, and none of the heads have their crowns. Differently, in Revelation 12, the 7heads have their crowns.

Which I interpret as in Revelation 12, with the full 7 years remaining (the 1260 days + the time, times, half time), king 7 has come to power. Which would be the little horn person.

That little horn person eventually becomes the Antichrist, who right before the 42 months, commits the 2Thessonians2:4 act that gets him killed (the mortally wounded head in Revelation 13). Which ends the prophecy of the 7 kings; thus there are no crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 13.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 21, 2019

Dale said:
So what do they think locusts are? I'm told that they must be hordes of demons crawling out of hell, an army of demons. This is the view of the Left Behind books. Of course, the people who take this seriously believe that they will be raptured off the earth so they won't be here anyway.

Douggg said:
The locust may be demon possessed, as well. I don't know.

9:1-2 The Fifth Trumpet, The First Woe: Many Christian expositors, including Martin Luther, the great Reformer; Sir Isaac Newton, the famous scientist; and the historian, Edward Gibbon; have seen in the fifth and sixth trumpets the rise and progress of Islam. In view of the tremendous military, religious, economic and cultural impact Islam has had on the Christian world in the nearly fourteen hundred years since its rise in the 600s, this interpretation deserves our serious attention.

Islam, the religion of the followers of Mohammed, originated around A.D. 612.

As we have seen before, a “star” represents a leader. The “bottomless pit” comes from the Greek word “abbusos,” where we get our word “abyss,” and it means a desolate empty place; similar to the word “void” in Genesis 1:2. This star or great leader was Mohammed, the founder of Islam. The “bottomless pit” applies here to the vast desolate wastelands of present day Saudi Arabia, from which “the smoke,” the religion of Islam, issued forth, darkening the light of Christ and Christianity in all the lands that come under their control.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

9:3 Out of the “smoke” comes “locusts.” When conditions are favorable a swarm of hundreds of millions of locusts may hatch at the same time. After exhausting the local food supply, they spread out gobbling up nearly every green plant in their path, and leaving desolation and famine behind them. By the time of his death in A.D. 632 Mohammed had united the Arabian Peninsula under Islam. Over the next 100 years the Muslim tide spread in a raging flood across the earth until the year 732 when they were narrowly defeated at the Battle of Tours in France. This victory saved Western Europe from conversion to Islam.

Revelation 9 Commentary

Dale · Sep 21, 2019

Douggg said:
I never claimed a resurrection by Satan.

I view Isaiah 14:18-20 as God bringing the person back to life, in disdain for the person. In my view,bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion that God sends to them who believe the person's claim of having achieved God-hood in the first place, 2Thessalonians2:11.

2Thessalonians2:4 claims to have achieved God-hood; then Ezekiel 28:1-10 God has him killed; then Isaiah 14:18-20 God in disdain for the person brings him back alive.

Dale, there are timeframes involved for one thing.

In Revelation 13, there are 42 months left in the 7 years, and none of the heads have their crowns. Differently, in Revelation 12, the 7heads have their crowns.

Which I interpret as in Revelation 12, with the full 7 years remaining (the 1260 days + the time, times, half time), king 7 has come to power. Which would be the little horn person.

That little horn person eventually becomes the Antichrist, who right before the 42 months, commits the 2Thessonians2:4 act that gets him killed (the mortally wounded head in Revelation 13). Which ends the prophecy of the 7 kings; thus there are no crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 13.

Dougg: "I view Isaiah 14:18-20 as God bringing the person back to life, in disdain for the person."

I have already commented on how radical and how absurd it is to think that God would want to resurrect the antichrist, possibly the most evil man who ever lived, in post #9. I explored the crucial verses of Isaiah 14 in post #10 and found that it contains no resurrection of an evil king. I quoted John Gill's famous commentary on that subject in post #13 and Matthew Henry's famous commentary on that subject in post #14.

Who does God want to resurrect the antichrist to further Satan's plan?

Dougg: "In Revelation 13, there are 42 months left in the 7 years, and none of the heads have their crowns. Differently, in Revelation 12, the 7 heads have their crowns."

I'm having trouble making sense out of these claims. Revelation Chapter 12 has the dragon, which is Satan, with seven heads and seven crowns. At the beginning of Revelation Chapter 13 we find:

"The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name."

--Revelation 13:1 NIV

So the Beast does have ten crowns on ten horns in Revelation 13. The KJV says the same thing about crowns.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

--Revelation 13: 1 KJV

Contrary to your claim, the Beast at the start of Revelation 13 has ten crowns said to rest on ten horns.

Douggg · Sep 21, 2019

Dale said:
I have already commented on how radical and how absurd it is to think that God would want to resurrect the antichrist, possibly the most evil man who ever lived, in post #9.

Who creates the person who becomes the Antichrist? God has no idea aforehand that the person will become the most evil man who ever lived?

Douggg · Sep 21, 2019

Dale said:
I'm having trouble making sense out of these claims. Revelation Chapter 12 has the dragon, which is Satan, with seven heads and seven crowns. At the beginning of Revelation Chapter 13 we find:

Satan is seen in both Revelation 12 and Revelation 17 instead of the actual beast - because that beast is in the bottomless pit at the time of John, and for the first half of the 7 years.

It is not until the second half of the 7 years, in Revelation 13, that the actual beast will have come out of the bottomless pit.

Douggg · Sep 21, 2019

Dale said:
Contrary to your claim, the Beast at the start of Revelation 13 has ten crowns said to rest on ten horns.

I never said that the ten horns don't have their crowns in Revelation 13. We were talking about the heads.

BABerean2 · Sep 21, 2019

Douggg said:
It is not until the second half of the 7 years, in Revelation 13, that the actual beast will have come out of the bottomless pit.

Really...

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.

Douggg · Sep 22, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Really...

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.

BaB2, you have referred to that verse Revelation 11:18 countless times. You do not understand the timing of it any more than the previous times.

All of the end times bible prophecies has been presented to man in segments. Within each segment there is chronological order. But the segments to segments, themselves don't work that way.

Revelation 11:3-13 is a segment. Verse 14 begins a new segment. As the seven trumpet sounding, it picks up from a previous segment about the 3 woes in Revelation 9, two of the woes already revealed.

To understand Revelation 11:17-19, it is necessary to go find the third woe. Which happens to be in Revelation 12, Satan being cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, Revelation 12:12.

I show the 7th trumpet sounding on my chart.

.

BABerean2 · Sep 22, 2019

Douggg said:
Bab2. you have referred to that verse Revelation 11:18 countless times. You do not understand the timing of it any more than the previous times.

All of the end times bible prophecies has been presented to man in segments. Within each segment there is chronological order. But the segments to segments, themselves don't work that way.

Those who claim the Book of Revelation is in chronological order have produced the tremendous confusion seen on the forum, and seen on your chart.

I understand the timing of Revelation 11:18 perfectly, because it follows the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Christ described the judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30. The timing of that event is found in Revelation 11:18.
Paul said Christ would judge both the living and the dead at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.
Paul said the fire comes at His return in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
Peter said the fire comes on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief" in 2 Peter 3:10-13. Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth.
All of the witnesses above agree, but they do not agree with you.

Failing to see the beginning of Revelation chapter 12 as a history lesson, has you and others claiming that Satan, and the wicked angels, are still in heaven, in the presence of God. Why do you ignore the birth, and death of Christ in the passage? Do you think Christ has not been born yet?

Dr. Sam Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, who abandoned the Dispensational doctrine taught by the school before he graduated.
Below he reveals the parallel structure of texts within the Book of Revelation.

"recapitulation"

How Should We Interpret the Book of Revelation?

Dr. Sam Storms: Sermon Series on the Book of Revelation is found below.
Revelation: Triumph of The Lamb

.

Douggg · Sep 22, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Those who claim the Book of Revelation is in chronological order have produced the tremendous confusion seen on the forum, and seen on your chart.

The Book of Revelation is presented in segments. And that is the only way the book of Revelation can be understood as far as the flow of events.

BABerean2 said:
I understand the timing of Revelation 11:18 perfectly, because it follows the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

The 7th trumpet is the 7th of 7 trumpets in Revelation 9. You are going to a different part of the bible where it mentions the last trumpet, over-riding that in the text of Revelation 11, it is called the 7th trumpet and not last trumpet. The 7th trumpet deals with the third woe.

BABerean2 said:
Failing to see the beginning of Revelation chapter 12 as a history lesson, has you and others claiming that Satan, and the wicked angels, are still in heaven, in the presence of God. Why do you ignore the birth, and death of Christ in the passage? Do you think Christ has not been born yet?

The first five verses of Revelation 12 is a segment.

Revelation 12:6-17 is another segment, but regarding the 7 years.

No-one can understand the end times properly until they start recognizing segments and how to apply the information therein to the flow of events in the big picture. I am trying to help you.

Douggg · Sep 22, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Failing to see the beginning of Revelation chapter 12 as a history lesson, has you and others claiming that Satan, and the wicked angels, are still in heaven, in the presence of God. Why do you ignore the birth, and death of Christ in the passage? Do you think Christ has not been born yet?

You have taken a fork in the road and are talking about a different issue. I do not think that Satan and the wicked angels are free to roam the third heaven. Revelation 12, the war will be in the second heaven, not the third heaven.

Bab2, you are being combative, rather than objectively hearing the other person.

Mark51 · Sep 22, 2019

The seventh head of the beast that suffered a “death-stroke” was referring to-initially/dominantly-Great Britain at the end of the First World War.-Revelation 13:3; compare to “sword-stroke” at Revelation 13:14.

Britain was almost devastated politically and economically; and thus, opened the way for the United States to distinctly become a part of the Anglo-American World Power. It is scripturally identified as the seventh and last head of Satan’s worldly political system.

Dale · Sep 22, 2019

eleos1954 said:
As you said, satan does not have the power to resurrect anyone ... only God does.

For every truth of God ... satan has a lie ... and is extremely crafty and deceitful.

People who do not believe the dead are in fact dead and don't know anything (dormant in the grave) ... are primed to believe in familiar spirits and that they can in fact communicate with the dead. (which is not so)

satan and his demons certainly have the capability of "appearing" as something ... they are not ...

2nd Corinthians 11

New International Version
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

So yes, satan will counterfeit the resurrection (appear as people who have died) by this great illusion (working through the antichrist) and many will believe he is god because of this. MANY

People who believe in an "immortal soul" will be easily deceived, along with non-believers because of this "counterfeit resurrection" ... we are not immortal in any way, shape or form until Jesus returns ... and when Jesus returns he takes all the saved (resurrected and living) to heaven.

Also His return is not going to be any kind of a secret "rapture" ... it's going to be a loud and powerful event.

Paul sums it up quite nicely here:

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep (dormant in the grave) in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

and here ...

1 Corinthians 15

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

We are not and do not become immortal until the Lord returns and changes us.

Eleos in post #4: << People who believe in an "immortal soul" will be easily deceived, along with non-believers because of this "counterfeit resurrection" ... we are not immortal in any way, shape or form until Jesus returns ... and when Jesus returns he takes all the saved (resurrected and living) to heaven. >>

You are saying that believing in an immortal soul leads to being taken in by deception. I don't see this. The Seventh Day Adventists, and their offshoots, reject the notion of an immortal soul. They believe only in a bodily resurrection. Yet on the end times, no one is more clueless than they are. Their founder taught that the Antichrist will make people go to a Christian church on the wrong day of the week. Ridiculous. I don't think the SDA version of the Antichrist is 1% as diabolic as the real Antichrist is going to be.

Dale · Sep 22, 2019

eleos1954 said:
correct .... and why are they easily deceived? ... because they don't believe the dead are really dead.
If someone thinks they "see" a dead loved one, and they actually speak to them .... they will be fooled. Most everyone (christians) are expecting the resurrection ... it will be a deceitful counterfeit.

Will also be a powerful delusion to non-believers as well, such as atheists, because they are always looking for "physical facts".

Consider this hypothetically ... think of a person of whom you have known .... that has died ... and that you absolutely have no doubt they will be saved .... and then ... this "entity" claiming to god, performing mighty miracles, fire from the sky .... etc .... appears to raise up this person .... are you inclined to believe it? Do you believe Christ will reign on earth for the 1,000 years? If so, why wouldn't you believe it?

For every truth in Gods word satan has a deceptive counterfeit.

2 Thessalonians 2:9

that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders.

People take the word "deceived" too lightly ... in order to be deceived, something has to be so, so close to the truth that it is almost undetectable (not able to be detected).

Genesis 3:1

1Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat of any tree in the garden?’

He's going to deceivingly distort the word of god (just like in Genesis) ... along with great miracles, signs and wonders, in such a way it's virtually undetectable.

Matthew 24:24
New International Version
For false messiahs (anti-christ) and false prophets (Revelation 13:11) will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

These deceptions have been going on and are going on now .... and will continue to go on ... deceptive teachings slowly but surely, creeping into the churches ... undetected.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

Everyone needs to diligently study His Word for themselves.

We don't have to have "specific details", we need to really get a grasp on what "deception" means ... and the Lord says .... EVERY deception possible will be used by satan (angel of light).

Revelation 12:9
New Living Translation
This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

Eleos: "For every truth in Gods word satan has a deceptive counterfeit."

I don't see how this is true. When the Satan counterfeit the cruxifixion?

If Satan didn't counterfeit the resurrection in the ancient world, why would he try to do so in our future?

Eleos: "2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness."

When Paul says that Satan changes himself into an "angel of light," he is talking about false teaching. He is not talking about false miracles. He is saying that false apostles can make their doctrine sound appealing.

Dale · Sep 22, 2019

tranquil said:
The mortally head wounded person of Rev 13:3 is the 'worthless'/ 'foolish' shepherd that 'apostasizes'/ deserts the flock of Zech 11

Zechariah 11

15 Then the Lord said to me, “Take once more the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.

17 “Woe to my worthless shepherd,
who deserts the flock!
May the sword strike his arm
and his right eye!
Let his arm be wholly withered,
his right eye utterly blinded!”

Tranquil, welcome to CF.

Thanks for pointing out this passage in Zechariah 11. I'd have to say that the shepherd in this passage is a bad religious leader, a bad pastor. The passage doesn't eve say that the bad shepherd is teaching false or dangerous doctrine, just that he doesn't seem to work at being a good shepherd.

The antichrist figure in Daniel is a political and military leader who will lead nations to war against Israel.

21 In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given; he shall come in without warning and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 Armies shall be utterly swept away before him and broken, and the prince of the covenant also.

Daniel 11: 21-22 RSV

Likewise, the antichrist in Revelation, the Beast, or the first Beast when it refers to one man, is a political and military leader who will lead nations to war against Israel.

13 And I saw, issuing from the mouth of the dragon and from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet, three foul spirits like frogs; 14 for they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

Revelation 16: 13-14 RSV

The Foolish Shepherd in Zechariah is a warning to pastors to be diligent. The Foolish Shepherd is not a political or military leader that we should be afraid of.

eleos1954 · Sep 22, 2019

[/QUOTE]="Dale, post: 74318678, member: 8216"]

Eleos: "For every truth in Gods word satan has a deceptive counterfeit."

I don't see how this is true. When the Satan counterfeit the cruxifixion?
[/QUOTE]

The crucifixion is a past event and was prophesied and had witnesses, satan don't need to nor can counterfeit that one. That's already happened and we all know it.

satan does know, just like we know Jesus will return ... the 1st resurrection happens ...
every christian is expecting this

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

False "Christs", impersonators of Christ, claiming to be Christ. We have had "kooks" that have done this for sure ... but end times ... sitting in the temple of God claiming He satan working through (anti-christ) is God.

Revelation 13

13And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had liv

When Paul says that Satan changes himself into an "angel of light," he is talking about false teaching. He is not talking about false miracles. He is saying that false apostles can make their doctrine sound appealing.

Key word "angel"

Satan didn't counterfeit the resurrection in the ancient world, why would he try to do so in our future?

satan didn't counterfeit Jesus resurrection, but he did mimic a resurrection in ancient times.

The story of the witch of endor (Samuel 28). Now some people use that account and put forth as "proof" people can talk to the dead ... not so - deception ... it was a demon the witch conjured up. (now people if you disagree with this, please start a thread on that topic ... don't discuss here please)

God says the dead don't know anything.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

People report of familiar (friendly) spirits and ghostly demons appearing all the time .... and they do ... they are demonic.

It's going to be a HUGE deception.

Revelation 13:3

3One of the heads of the beast appeared to be fatally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

The whole world.... not just christians ... and they followed (not forced)

Non-believers will be convinced as well ... things going on that are so supernatural they can't be explained ... will be perceived as miracles by them.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2019

Douggg said: ↑
I never claimed a resurrection by Satan.

I view Isaiah 14:18-20 as God bringing the person back to life, in disdain for the person. In my view,bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion that God sends to them who believe the person's claim of having achieved God-hood in the first place, 2Thessalonians2:11.

2Thessalonians2:4 claims to have achieved God-hood; then Ezekiel 28:1-10 God has him killed; then Isaiah 14:18-20 God in disdain for the person brings him back alive.

Dale, there are timeframes involved for one thing.

In Revelation 13, there are 42 months left in the 7 years, and none of the heads have their crowns. Differently, in Revelation 12, the 7heads have their crowns.

Which I interpret as in Revelation 12, with the full 7 years remaining (the 1260 days + the time, times, half time), king 7 has come to power. Which would be the little horn person.

That little horn person eventually becomes the Antichrist, who right before the 42 months, commits the 2Thessonians2:4 act that gets him killed (the mortally wounded head in Revelation 13). Which ends the prophecy of the 7 kings; thus there are no crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 13.

Dale said: ↑
I'm having trouble making sense out of these claims. Revelation Chapter 12 has the dragon, which is Satan, with seven heads and seven crowns. At the beginning of Revelation Chapter 13 we find:

Douggg said:
Satan is seen in both Revelation 12 and Revelation 17 instead of the actual beast - because that beast is in the bottomless pit at the time of John, and for the first half of the 7 years.

It is not until the second half of the 7 years, in Revelation 13, that the actual beast will have come out of the bottomless pit.

BABerean2 said: ↑
Really...
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Douggg said:
BaB2, you have referred to that verse Revelation 11:18 countless times. You do not understand the timing of it any more than the previous times.

All of the end times bible prophecies has been presented to man in segments. Within each segment there is chronological order. But the segments to segments, themselves don't work that way.

Revelation 11:3-13 is a segment. Verse 14 begins a new segment. As the seven trumpet sounding, it picks up from a previous segment about the 3 woes in Revelation 9, two of the woes already revealed.

To understand Revelation 11:17-19, it is necessary to go find the third woe. Which happens to be in Revelation 12, Satan being cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, Revelation 12:12.

I show the 7th trumpet sounding on my chart.
.

Yes. He referred to it so many times, I ended up creating a thread on it....He has yet to post on it...........

Revelation 11:18 "2nd Woe passed, dead judged, reward the Saints"
Mar 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
A member has mentioned Revelation 11:18 in some posts in reference to the future judgement and reward........aka PAROUSIA OF JESUS".
It is a rather fascinating passage with some rather unique Greek words.

I translated Revelation 11:14-18 word for word from an interlinear, using the correct tenses and putting strong's # next to certain words in case members want to look them up.
Please feel free to discuss this.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when? shall these be being,
and what? the Sign of Thy parousia<3952>,
and full-Consummation<4931-5055> of the Age.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

The KJV has "to come" in vs 17.
Revelation 11:17 biblehub

New American Standard Bible
saying, "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were,
because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.
King James Bible
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Revelation 11:
14 The second woe is passed<565>.
Behold! the third woe is coming swiftly<5035>.
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets, and there became great voices/sounds in the heaven, saying, ‘became the kingdom of the world<2889> of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall be reigning into the ages of the ages!’
16 And the twenty four Elders, in view of the God, are sitting upon their thrones and fall upon their faces, and worship to the God, 17 saying,
"We are thanking to Thee Lord, the God, the Almighty,
the One being, and and the One was, [and who art coming],
that Thou has taken the great power of Thee and Thou reign.
18
And the nations are wroth<3710>,and came Thy wrath<3709>,
And the time/season<2540> of the dead to be judged<2919>,

And to give the reward/wages<3408> to Thy bond-slaves, the Prophets, and to the Saints,
and to those fearing<5399> Thy name, to the small and to the great
And to destroy/ruin<1311> those destroying/ruining<1311> the land.”

In fact, only 1 member has posted on it since March......

Michael Collum said:
parousia and full consumation in the same sentence, that's too much.

Michael Collum said:
I noticed you translate 1093 as "the land" does this mean that you interpret that the passage refers to the land of Israel as it is referred to in the Old Testament Prophecies, and not the whole earth?

Dale · Sep 22, 2019

Mark51 said:
The seventh head of the beast that suffered a “death-stroke” was referring to-initially/dominantly-Great Britain at the end of the First World War.-Revelation 13:3; compare to “sword-stroke” at Revelation 13:14.

Britain was almost devastated politically and economically; and thus, opened the way for the United States to distinctly become a part of the Anglo-American World Power. It is scripturally identified as the seventh and last head of Satan’s worldly political system.

Mark, welcome to CF.

You say World War I in your post but you apparently mean World War II. If you are saying that Great Britain is the wounded head of the Beast, I don't see anything to support that. If the Beast is the EU, or Europe, Britain is leaving the EU, so we wouldn't expect Britain to be part of that alliance in the future.

I don't understand your chronology of worldly political systems, either. Moreover, you refer to "the seventh head of the beast." Revelation doesn't say that it is the "seventh head" that is wounded. It simply says that one of the heads is wounded, so you are inserting a phrase that isn't there.

Dale · Sep 22, 2019

Revealing Times said:
The 7 Heads represents ALL THE BEASTS over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region up until the Church age.............AND then after the Church Age.

Rev. 17 is about Apollyon, not Satan the Dragon BEAST nor the Anti-Christ Beast. You realize more than one entity can BEAST OVER a Region right ? The Dragon rules all Darkness, he gives the Anti-Christ his power, thus there is TWO BEASTS there. Apollyon is another Beast, he was ASSIGNED the Region by Satan !!

That's evident, since I pointed out three chapters.

Crowns on the Heads {Kingdoms} in Rev. 12 SIGNIFIES Satan as the Beast Dragon. Crowns on the Horns in Rev. 13 SIGNIFY its the Man Beast/Little Horn that being designated/spoken about. NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 SIGNIFY it's Apollyon.

Hey, you can't count the Two-witnesses time frame on earth correctly, I don't expect you to get this complex problem.........WINK, WINK.....

RevealingTimes: "Rev. 17 is about Apollyon, not Satan the Dragon BEAST nor the Anti-Christ Beast."

Revealing,

The purpose of Revelation isn't to tell us about demons. The purpose of Revelation is to give hope to the faithful and to urge others to repent. Yes, it tells us about the Final Judgment.

The place that Apollyon (or Abbadon) is named is in Revelation 9: 11. As the text plainly tells us, the name simply means The Destroyer. Revelation 9: 1-11 tells us about a plague of locusts, or perhaps locusts and scorpions, and other such creatures. It does say that Apollyon is the king of the locusts but this may be a way of speaking. Put it this way. If an infestation of locusts was eating your food supply and you knew that millions were going to starve next year, when the food runs out, would you think this was the plague from hell? You probably would.

This is the only place in the Bible that Apollyon is mentioned. No where else in the Bible is there a story about this being. No where else are we warned about this being.

Since you make a great deal out of Apollyon, let me pose a few questions.

Why should we believe that Apollyon exists, as an entity?

Why should we believe that Apollyon exists, except as another name for Satan?

Why should we believe that demons are organized enough to have assigned ranks and territories?

The Bible does not give us names of demons. (Some of the Apocryphal books do.) Since the Bible doesn't assign names to demons, why would Apollyon be an exception?

Will an Antichrist Resurrect from the Dead?? Rev 13:3

Senior Veteran

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Senior Veteran

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

God is Love

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Similar threads