Commandments Question

Michael Vichiola said:

I just want the truth. Because everyones saying yes no yes no yes no yes no (like a pinball machine) )

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these verses are being spoken to different people. For those who have trusted in the Christ the written Law is at an end. For those who have become the Lord's by faith the Law of the kingdom is detailed in the Beatitudes.

The other gentleman will not become the Lord's and therefore is still under the written Law and when the time comes he will have to be judged by that same Law while those who are in the Lord had that bill foor the wages of sin paid by the Lord on the cross. Does that help I hope?

klutedavid said:

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment--what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

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Want some verses that speak the same truth but don't ignore the Kingdom?

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Luke 4: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

What gospel?

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 9: 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom

etc.

Michael Vichiola said:

so we keep the 10 commandments? Sunday we can work? i want to know

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The entire Law is fulfilled by Love even the big ten. Love does no wrong and that is what the written Law was teaching men but the written Law is like what parents give to little kids, The Lord does not want us to be tottlers He wants us to be mature believers. Grace is the Law for mature believers. Grace is Love in action and Love fulfills the entire Law. The Law the Lord gave us to live by in this time we wait His return is Grace 2 Titus 2: 11-15

Work on Sunday its between you and God. He did not give us this day or that way He says I know men need rest and I want you to have that rest. Which day that is may depend on many factors such as what does your employer need etc. People who claim different are doing acting by the letter of the law and not by the spirit of the Law.

Michael Vichiola said:

please do

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Michael Vichiola said:

please do

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Here Michael is the best reason to ignore any teaching would have you place yourself under Law and you wrote it.

Michael Vichiola said:

klutedavid, so when you said the 10 commandments still apply that means christians have to keep the sabbath? No work on sunday?

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I never said the ten commandments still apply.

I am not under the law of Moses.

We celebrate the risen Christ on the first day and any other day, some call it the Lord's day.

We break the bread on any day of the week as we are at liberty to celebrate Jesus on any day we chose.

Rest days in a secular society occur when you get a day off work.

Israel had a national day of rest on the seventh day. You could even stone a person to death for working on that seventh rest day.

In my country we do not have a national day of rest.

We Gentiles are not under the law as we are under grace now.

timothyu said:

Want some verses that speak the same truth but don't ignore the Kingdom?

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Luke 4: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

What gospel?

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 9: 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom

etc.

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I don't think you understand what you quoted.

The GOSPEL of the kingdom was being taught which Paul outlined below. Not the 'kingdom'!

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

timothyu said:

Want some verses that speak the same truth but don't ignore the Kingdom?

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Luke 4: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

What gospel?

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 9: 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom

etc.

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Here are some verses that illustrate what was really being taught by the apostles.

Mark 1
15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.

Mark 16
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Mark 16
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed in My name

Luke 8
12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Luke 8
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.

John 2:11
This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

John 2:23
Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name.

John 3:15
So that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life.

John 6
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst".

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

John 8:30
As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

John 9
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.

John 10
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11:26
And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 11
40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

John 12
36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.

John 14
29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

John 16
9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 20
31 But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 2
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common.

Acts 4
4 But many of those who had heard the message believed.

Acts 4
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul.

Acts 5
14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number.

Acts 8
13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip.

Acts 9
42 It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

Acts 10
43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed.

Acts 11
21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord.

Acts 13
12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts 13
39 And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14
1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed.

Acts 14
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15
7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe".

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 15
7 That by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Acts 16
31 They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.

Acts 17
12 Therefore many of them believed.

Acts 17
34 But some men joined him and believed.

Acts 18
8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 18
27 He greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

Acts 19
4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him".

Acts 19
18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 3
22 Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.

Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 10
9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 10
13 Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your belief.

1 Corinthians 1
21 God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day.

Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him.

1 Thessalonians 2
13 For what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Thessalonians 1
10 To be marveled at among all who have believed, for our testimony to you was believed.

1 Timothy 1
16 Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Hebrews 3
19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4
3 For we who have believed enter that rest.

klutedavid said:

Here are some verses that illustrate what was really being taught by the apostles.

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Well lol it's not a peeing contest but yes, they all refer to the Kingdom and it's King. People forget there would have been no reason for a fleshy Jesus to exist if it weren't for the Kingdom and the need for someone to bring it to fruition and to be it's King. Jesus' purpose is Kingdom related. He was made for the Kingdom, not the other way around... as the Kingdom was made for man as an outlet to the first death. What Jesus did was make it possible and will be our guide and leader there. Thanks Lord.

timothyu said:

Well lol it's not a peeing contest but yes, they all refer to the Kingdom and it's King. People forget there would have been no reason for a fleshy Jesus to exist if it weren't for the Kingdom and the need for someone to bring it to fruition and to be it's King. Jesus' purpose is Kingdom related. He was made for the Kingdom, not the other way around... as the Kingdom was made for man as an outlet to the first death. What Jesus did was make it possible and will be our guide and leader there. Thanks Lord.

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Their king from above arrived riding a colt the foal of a donkey. Though their king was sent exclusively to the nation of Israel.

I would refrain from using such words as 'king' and 'kingdom', rather more modern words for ruler and nation would be more appropriate.

No sir, most of these verses I quoted mention believing in Jesus and not so much about the kingdom.

It is the GOSPEL of the kingdom or dominion.

Here is one prophesy regarding the dominion which Jesus rules over.

Daniel 7:13-14
One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.

As you said, Jesus was appointed the CEO of heaven and earth. Everyone will be subjected to His absolute sovereignty and control.

Though the simpler message or good news concerns believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sin.

I would be inclined to keep the message as simple as possible with the full focus on Jesus.
As the 'kingdom' is mentioned frequently in the gospels but not very often in the rest of the letters.

klutedavid said:

No sir, most of these verses I quoted mention believing in Jesus and not so much about the kingdom.

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If you believe in Jesus then you believe why he existed. Most people stop at saving us, but saving us meant saving us not only how but to what? The Kingdom.

klutedavid said:

for the forgiveness of sin

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Again the forgiveness of sin for what purpose. To give us a second chance. Where? People always also want to leave out the other concept of Kingdom, the Father's Kingdom/ governance over us. Rulership. Not here but where?

klutedavid said:

I would be inclined to keep the message as simple as possible with the full focus on Jesus.

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So would the Adversary. He had no problem with Jesus. His problem as with man, has always been the Kingdom where it will have no rule or admittance. Man has a problem because it is counter to our ways and is a threat to the world we have made in our own image. So be careful what you simplify to.
The Adversary has already beat those who focus on the man and not the message.

First of all Paul is not the Saviour.. The letters were more about church/religion building. But the scriptures refer to the fact Paul spent most of his time teaching the Gospel of the kingdom. That the canon builders found it convenient to ignore those possible writings is a matter to take up with them. They too were more interested in building a religion and a kingdom here than following the Kingdom of the Father so they possibly diverted away. But they couldn't ignore the four books. Instead they put the onus on Paul.. Adversary at work. Man within the beginnings of Christianity were not infallible. That is how the church was able to harlot itself to Rome down the road. They lost sight of the real Kingdom and built their own and the blind have lead the blind ever since. Jesus will straighten everybody out some day. And people wonder how such a large religion can fit on a narrow path, It's not the religion but the people in it and there aren't many.

coffee4u said:

2) Jesus was the perfect man fulfilling all the law. The ripping of the veil in the temple symbolised the abolition of the law.

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No one could ever keep ALL of the commandments. It is impossible. The veil being ripped meant that we can each now come to The Father personally.

klutedavid said:

Hello Vicky.

Here are some verses about why Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

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Not under it because you keep it by the Spirit...the law was not abolished, the curse was.

coffee4u said:

Luke 10:27 NKJV
So he answered and said, “ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself.”

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And yet this IS from the Torah...in Deuteronomy and Leviticus...

Vicky gould said:

Hi, I agree but when anyone Jew or Gentile come to Christ the written Law is at an end. The Royal Law of Love is now in effect

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Are you saying that Yeshua and The Father are at odds? A divided house can not stand...
What do you consider the "royal law of love"?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Are you saying that Yeshua and The Father are at odds? A divided house can not stand...
What do you consider the "royal law of love"?

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never said anything remotely like that, If you got that it must be from your erroneous manner of interpreting.

Lord I would like to take a minute and ask you to make the truth. That he would stop having a human understanding of your Son, who He is and not only what He has done, what He is doing and what He is going to do.

the beatitudes are the Law of the kingdom

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Not under it because you keep it by the Spirit...the law was not abolished, the curse was.

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Not at all. Don't know where you get that other than your interpretation.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

No one could ever keep ALL of the commandments. It is impossible. The veil being ripped meant that we can each now come to The Father personally.

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now you may have crossed over from silly interpretations to outright blasphemy if you sre saying the Lord could not and or did not. Please clarify what you mean.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Not under it because you keep it by the Spirit...the law was not abolished, the curse was.

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Yes the curse was abolished when the Law was fulfilled perfectly by Yeshua and He proclaimed it is finished and He had not only fulfilled but took it from the powers of darkness who had armed themselves with the Law. He nailed to the cross the Law you claim was not put at an end by His perfect Life and His perfect death, It is Finished unless you find His cross tear off that Law He nailed to it and turn around and rearm the powers of darkness with that which Christ died to disarm them. Not sure that one is going to get the well

Vicky gould said:

never said anything remotely like that, If you got that it must be from your erroneous manner of interpreting.

the beatitudes are the Law of the kingdom
Not at all. Don't know where you get that other than your interpretation.
now you may have crossed over from silly interpretations to outright blasphemy if you sre saying the Lord could not and or did not. Please clarify what you mean.

Yes the curse was abolished when the Law was fulfilled perfectly by Yeshua and He proclaimed it is finished and He had not only fulfilled but took it from the powers of darkness who had armed themselves with the Law. He nailed to the cross the Law you claim was not put at an end by His perfect Life and His perfect death, It is Finished unless you find His cross tear off that Law He nailed to it and turn around and rearm the powers of darkness with that which Christ died to disarm them. Not sure that one is going to get the well

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Yeshua preached the Torah of His Father...to say otherwise is the blasphemy. Yeshua, nor anyone could keep the WHOLE of all the Laws...no blasphemy, just truth. You say otherwise because you do not know the Commandments. To say otherwise is sillyness. You say that the Armies of the evil one armed themselves with the Law? The Law Yeshua kept and The Father wrote? Now THAT is blasphemy. Even Paul says the Law is Holy. You have a complete misunderstanding of much. What was nailed was NOT the Law it was the curse..."He became a curse"... Galatians 3:13

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua preached the Torah of His Father...to say otherwise is the blasphemy. Yeshua, nor anyone could keep the WHOLE of all the Laws...no blasphemy, just truth. You say otherwise because you do not know the Commandments. To say otherwise is sillyness. You say that the Armies of the evil one armed themselves with the Law? The Law Yeshua kept and The Father wrote? Now THAT is blasphemy. Even Paul says the Law is Holy. You have a complete misunderstanding of much. What was nailed was NOT the Law it was the curse..."He became a curse"... Galatians 3:13

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thank you for clearing it up.. You claim the Lord who came specifically to fulfill the Law men could not keep could not do so himself. So the Passover Lamb of God was blemished and therefore disqualified from being our Passover Lamb.

No one ever claimed the Law is anything but Holy, Righteous and good. There is the claim that using the Law wrong is sin. So the Law can be misused. What do you think the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is? The Law! I could not know what coveting was and when the command came sin in me became utterly sinful coveting in every form came to life. Did the Law cause the sin? No the Law was designed by God to make sin known to Man, condemn sin and put man to death, dying you would die speaking of both physical death and spiritual death. Having done these things the Law was designed to lead men to the Passover Lamb our Savior who cannot be Holy according to your claim because He could not, did not live a sinless life, fail at any part of the Law and fail at all the Law. Which parts of the Law did He not keep? I would be ashamed and at least embarrassed to make this claim before men and still claim to be a Christian. You have like some other made idols out of the written Law, the kingdom etc. You, in mu opinion stand on very, very dangerous ground. I am praying for you. God bless.