Ken Rank

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I made my statements according to the portion of the law that Jesus fulfilled.

I somewhere stated in my post that the apostle Paul stated that the law is replaced by grace.

There is a difference in what I said and what you thought that I said.
The argument in your case is whether or not keeping the Sabbath is required. So keep the topic to that. These other issues can easily derail the discussion.
You have no desire to learn anything beyond what you already know. The fact that you can even suggest that there are no unanswerable questions tells me more than you realize. Anyway... I told you there was no reason to go on because of this... and you didn't read what I wrote to hear me, or learn, you read only to respond. You missed have missed the part where I said I was pretty much done. And I am, done. There is no reason to go on because you're right, I am wrong... and God doesn't mean it when He says everlasting.

Peace to you.
Ken
 
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Ken Rank

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We died to the Law by God’s own design for the Law to function. Dead to something is understood to be teaching?
Would you happen to have a source for that? Thanks in advance.

If the law of America puts to death to the law of voting what is my claim to be for that Law and my dead body.? Am I still eligible to vote? Of course not. I died to my first husband, ro. 7, and now I no longer live married to the Law. The Law that stands opposed to me and prevents me from being the Bride of Christ.

Prevents me for living and marrying Christ

Provides the fuel Sin needs to become utterly sinful

Is meant to reveal, condemn my sin

To lead me to Christ and then having done so it is at an end.

Some of the reasons Law must be over in the life of the redeemed.

Thanks and blessings from our most Merciful Lord and God.

In the rest here we don't really agree but it doesn't matter. We both love the Lord and seek to do His will as best we can knowing when we fail we will learn from our mistakes and have our advocate in Messiah. But if the law is over, God isn't omnipotent because He very plainly calls it everlasting in a number of places. I start from the premise, Vicky, that God does not change. With that as my absolute premise (and not just lip service) I proceed to read Scripture through that lens, and along with hundreds of hours of first century Hebraic customs, idioms and idiomatic phrases, what would become the Talmud, the two different schools of Pharisees, and a different look at certain prophecies, I simply can no longer accept that the law came to an end. Our guilty verdict declared by the law came to and end through Yeshua's work, but the law itself is moving from stone to the heart. It isn't a different law that is being written on our hearts, that was not the understanding in the first century at all. That which was written on stone is what was being moved to the heart by God. He said, "I will write my law on their inward part" in Jeremiah... what law in Jeremiah do you think the author had in mind? God has one law.... there are a number of places where that is directly written. It has been added to, explained at the spiritual level... but not done away with. The only thing nailed to the cross was our guilt.
 
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coffee4u

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Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

I haven't read this thread, just thought I would post my thoughts to each of your points/questions.
1) Not billions, just thousands.

2) Jesus was the perfect man fulfilling all the law. The ripping of the veil in the temple symbolised the abolition of the law.

3) I believe it did. The New Testament says let every day be as a Sabbath to you. Meaning meditate on God every day.

4) Follow the two that sum it all up.
Luke 10:27 NKJV
So he answered and said, “ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself.”
 
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Ken Rank

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Same way I set (laws) rules for my 9 year old that was never meant to carry over to my 16 year old or 21 year old. My o my I made a rule to deal with issues for my children whose chronological age needs that Law then when they reach maturity I no longer need rules designed to guide a tottler any longer.
Even here, I don't agree. The child lacks the understanding of the teen, but the foundation of your house rules were set. If you stopped and thought about it... there were MANY things your told your children that they just took with them into their teen or adult years. And the funny thing is... and if you don't believe me, find a Hebrew teacher of more than a few years and they will substantiate this... the 10 "Commandments" are not commandments. They are "words." Even today in the synagogues, the Jews call them the 10 Words. What is the difference? Not "YOU WILL NOT DO _____," but rather, they are actually written in a way that God is making a statement of fact. It doesn't say it this way... but the feel is more like God saying, "My people don't steal."

The 10 "Words" are the covenant (Deut. 4:13) and the covenant made at Sinai is something God called everlasting (Psalm 105:8-10, and there are MANY other references). So, everlasting it is... and if our modern paradigm does not allow for this to be the case... then either we have to alter our paradigm... or admit that we are recreating God in a new image because He said it was everlasting. It has to be... or we are making up our own rules.

Be blessed Vicky.
 
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Vicky gould

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Even here, I don't agree. The child lacks the understanding of the teen, but the foundation of your house rules were set. If you stopped and thought about it... there were MANY things your told your children that they just took with them into their teen or adult years. And the funny thing is... and if you don't believe me, find a Hebrew teacher of more than a few years and they will substantiate this... the 10 "Commandments" are not commandments. They are "words." Even today in the synagogues, the Jews call them the 10 Words. What is the difference? Not "YOU WILL NOT DO _____," but rather, they are actually written in a way that God is making a statement of fact. It doesn't say it this way... but the feel is more like God saying, "My people don't steal."

The 10 "Words" are the covenant (Deut. 4:13) and the covenant made at Sinai is something God called everlasting (Psalm 105:8-10, and there are MANY other references). So, everlasting it is... and if our modern paradigm does not allow for this to be the case... then either we have to alter our paradigm... or admit that we are recreating God in a new image because He said it was everlasting. It has to be... or we are making up our own rules.

Be blessed Vicky.

okay
 
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Vicky gould

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Would you happen to have a source for that? Thanks in advance.



In the rest here we don't really agree but it doesn't matter. We both love the Lord and seek to do His will as best we can knowing when we fail we will learn from our mistakes and have our advocate in Messiah. But if the law is over, God isn't omnipotent because He very plainly calls it everlasting in a number of places. I start from the premise, Vicky, that God does not change. With that as my absolute premise (and not just lip service) I proceed to read Scripture through that lens, and along with hundreds of hours of first century Hebraic customs, idioms and idiomatic phrases, what would become the Talmud, the two different schools of Pharisees, and a different look at certain prophecies, I simply can no longer accept that the law came to an end. Our guilty verdict declared by the law came to and end through Yeshua's work, but the law itself is moving from stone to the heart. It isn't a different law that is being written on our hearts, that was not the understanding in the first century at all. That which was written on stone is what was being moved to the heart by God. He said, "I will write my law on their inward part" in Jeremiah... what law in Jeremiah do you think the author had in mind? God has one law.... there are a number of places where that is directly written. It has been added to, explained at the spiritual level... but not done away with. The only thing nailed to the cross was our guilt.

okay, thanks
 
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Vicky gould

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You have no desire to learn anything beyond what you already know. The fact that you can even suggest that there are no unanswerable questions tells me more than you realize. Anyway... I told you there was no reason to go on because of this... and you didn't read what I wrote to hear me, or learn, you read only to respond. You missed have missed the part where I said I was pretty much done. And I am, done. There is no reason to go on because you're right, I am wrong... and God doesn't mean it when He says everlasting.

Peace to you.
Ken

read above posts. thanks
 
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Ken Rank

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read above posts. thanks
I got an "ok" and an "ok thanks" to a request for a source that says being "dead to something" is understood to be teaching. If you have nothing better to add to a conversation where you were very kind until I took a position you don't agree with... can you at least give me that source? I sincerely would love to study it. Thank you.
 
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Vicky gould

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I got an "ok" and an "ok thanks" to a request for a source that says being "dead to something" is understood to be teaching. If you have nothing better to add to a conversation where you were very kind until I took a position you don't agree with... can you at least give me that source? I sincerely would love to study it. Thank you.
I got an "ok" and an "ok thanks" to a request for a source that says being "dead to something" is understood to be teaching. If you have nothing better to add to a conversation where you were very kind until I took a position you don't agree with... can you at least give me that source? I sincerely would love to study it. Thank you.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, [even] to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet: 8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of coveting: for apart from the law sin [is] dead.

9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; 10 and the commandment, which [was] unto life, this I found [to be] unto death: 11 for sin, finding occasion, through the commandment beguiled me, and through it slew me.

12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.

13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; --that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful.
 
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Vicky gould

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I got an "ok" and an "ok thanks" to a request for a source that says being "dead to something" is understood to be teaching. If you have nothing better to add to a conversation where you were very kind until I took a position you don't agree with... can you at least give me that source? I sincerely would love to study it. Thank you.

18 For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.

NOTICE
who killed so we can' t follow the LAW? why the LAW DID IT
 
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Vicky gould

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I don't see any verses shared here or in the other post, nor have you cited a first century (or thereabouts) Jewish source that indicates being dead to something means teaching. But thanks anyway.

YOUR SOURCES ARE STILL TOP SECRET
 
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Ken Rank

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YOUR SOURCES ARE STILL TOP SECRET
I don't even know what that means. If somebody needs sources, I will give them with a minimum of 3 so as to establish a truth. In any event, Vicky, nice talking to you.
 
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Vicky gould

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YOUR SOURCES ARE STILL TOP SECRET

Ken your right my sources are not as good as you, From Matthew to John in The Revelation you top them all not one a 1st century Hebraic expert as you are. I have asked you for your teachers but they remain top secret maybe when I go to check my alerts it will be waiting, Do you think I a woman will be able to understand it? Oh I hope so. Commentators Ken come on your a big boy you can do it, By the way the rest of my sources begin with Noses and nd with Mal. I wonder why the Lord picked
I don't even know what that means. If somebody needs sources, I will give them with a minimum of 3 so as to establish a truth. In any event, Vicky, nice talking to you.
 
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Vicky gould

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Ken your right my sources are not as good as you, From Matthew to John in The Revelation you top them all not one a 1st century Hebraic expert as you are. I have asked you for your teachers but they remain top secret maybe when I go to check my alerts it will be waiting, Do you think I a woman will be able to understand it? Oh I hope so. Commentators Ken come on your a big boy you can do it, By the way the rest of my sources begin with Noses and nd with Mal. I wonder why the Lord picked

anything from Paul
 
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Vicky gould

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I don't even know what that means. If somebody needs sources, I will give them with a minimum of 3 so as to establish a truth. In any event, Vicky, nice talking to you.

Hi Ken one last try please explain this and whether or not it has any bearing on what you claim.
I don't even know what that means. If somebody needs sources, I will give them with a minimum of 3 so as to establish a truth. In any event, Vicky, nice talking to you.

Morning Ken, just wanted to hear your understanding of this passage from Colossians:

13 And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, [I say], did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; 14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

all the verses are important but notice who was armed with the Written Code. Lets talk about this and how Scripture tells us we rearm the powers of darkness.

Please, still waiying on who you received these teahings that I might read them for nyself. Thanks
 
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Vicky gould

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I don't even know what that means. If somebody needs sources, I will give them with a minimum of 3 so as to establish a truth. In any event, Vicky, nice talking to you.

Morning Ken, just wanted to hear your understanding of this passage from Colossians:

13 And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, [I say], did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; 14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


all the verses are important but notice who was armed with the Written Code. Lets talk about this and how Scripture tells us we rearm the powers of darkness.

Please, still waiting on who you received these teachings that I might read them for myself. Thanks
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

Its is going to take a lengthy post to explain it with all the scriptures. Would you mind that?
 
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Hello Vicky.

Here are some verses about why Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.
 
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