Salvation Cannot be Lost

jerry kelso said:

freegrace,

1. I never said the phrase, “I Die Daily” was about Paul or anybody else physically dying everyday.
I said it was a possibility not a probability to get your attention towards the connection to physical resurrection.
Most people think it can only be something about the spiritual aspect dying to sin or crucifying the flesh etc.

2. As I said before, the phrase “I Die Daily” deals with the fact that Paul was killed in the hearts of men everyday, led like a sheep led to the slaughter, in jeopardy every hour for the cause of Christ because of the message of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Savior and if there was no physical resurrection then living for God and putting his life on the line for the cause of Christ and putting himself in danger was all for naught and had no purpose.
This is the context. Jerry Kelso

Click to expand...

freegrace,

1. This is post #333.
Paul was talking to people who didn’t believe in the physical resurrection verse 12.
This is why Paul in verse 31 was protesting by their rejoicing which was he believed there was a physical resurrection and it had meaning and purpose and was the goal to live forever ruling and reigning with Christ. If it wasn’t true then there was no purpose or destiny in life and he might as well live like the heathen and eat , drink and be merry for tomorrow he would die and that would be the end.
Btw, all sinners go to hell.

2. The spiritual aspect was not struggling with the flesh or dying to sin or crucifying the flesh.
It was bearing in his body the message of the death, burial, and resurrection of which he could be killed for everyday 2 Corinthians 4:9-11.
Immediate context first in 1 Corinthians 15:1-31 and then the corroborating verses in 2 Corinthians 4:9-11, Romans 8:36. Jerry Kelso

FreeGrace2 said:

What you continue to fail to understand is your sinful nature still resides in you and gets its way at times, at least. But you deny that.

Click to expand...

In light of 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."...your understanding is amiss.

And the Bible refutes your opinions.
1 John 1-
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Click to expand...

John is addressing two kinds of walk/men.
Those verses are for the folks who walk in darkness/sin, and don't apply to those walking in the light/God.
In fact, verse 7 says..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Why can't those whose sins have been washed away say they have no sin?
It is incumbent on us to remain in the light/God after our past sins were washed away, and God has made it possible.

You are NOT without sin. So you have deceived yourself.
Your claim that you have not sinned for x years is refuted by v.10.
Your claims are sin.
But, there is a remedy for your sin. As there is for all sinners.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Click to expand...

Can't I say "I have no sin" after my confession and forgiveness?

Once again, the Bible refutes your opinions.
James 2:11 - For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
So you see, one can turn from adultery, but not murder.

Click to expand...

Don't you see from the scripture you provided that a repentance without ALL sin included is no repentance at all?

Sin comes in quite a lot of packages. There is no doubt from Scripture that you haven't turned from all of them.

Click to expand...

From scripture, cite my sin.
Or, quit falsely accusing me.

On what basis do you make this claim?
Sure you did. Those IN fellowship with the Lord, and those OUT of fellowship with the Lord.
Yeah, that's what I said.
You're way over-simplyfing things. And it seems you don't even understand what fellowship is.

Click to expand...

As it is written..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)
Sinners have no fellowship with God.

Consider a marriage. The couple at any given point are either IN fellowship with each other or they are NOT. What causes loss of fellowship? When one offends the other.
This is really a moment by moment situation.
There is no such thing as a once for all "turn from sin" as if that covers every possible temptation.

Click to expand...

The doctrine you adhere to has you locked into eternal sin...pitifully.
Thankfully, if you turn from sin, and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins, you can still be saved at the final judgement. (Acts 2:38)

My guess is that you are quite naive about what sin even is.

Click to expand...

"All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)

Any time a believer sins, at that moment they are walking in darkness.

Click to expand...

Believers don't commit sin.
They know God will destroy all the evil doers, and that He has sent His Son to conquer sin, in the flesh, and make a way for us to walk in the light instead of in the darkness/sin.

This would be unbelievers of course.

Click to expand...

That summation denies 1 John 1:6.

No, you are confused. Confession of sin on a daily (moment by moment) basis is parallel to washing feet in Jesus' day.

Click to expand...

You are up to your armpits in your defense of sin.

Recall John 13? And Peter not wanting Jesus to wash his feet? When Jesus said He must wash Peter's feet or Peter would have "no part" with Him. He was referring to fellowship, not relationship, as in salvation, because Jesus had just said that Peter was clean, meaning saved. Recall that Peter's response to "having no part" with Jesus was, "well then, give me a bath". But Peter was already clean. He only needed his feet washed.
Of course, Jesus was making a point about humillity, since feet washing in that day was done by the lowliest of servants. And the worst job of all.
In Jesus' day, people walked barefoot or in open sandals. On the same paths as the domesticated animals walked. Oh yeah, donkeys, goats, sheep, etc. You get the picture.

Click to expand...

Your derail doesn't absolve you from your assertion that it is the unbelievers who have fellowship with God.

That is how God views our sins. Like very offensive poop. So Jesus used foot washing as an analogy to confession, ala 1 John 1:9. We receive cleansing when we confess our sins.
But you are naively unaware of your own sins.

Click to expand...

If we receive cleansing, why can't we say we have no sin?

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"Sad that you keep inserting your opinions into Scripture."
I do. That's why I have to keep correcting your errors.

Click to expand...

Your "corrections" all have one thing in common.
They all want me to return to the darkness of sin.
I'll have no part in that.

I said:
"To be "not of God" means "not of God's will for you". Or "not God's policy"."
To be clear, "not in God's policy" would be more accurate. As I already noted.

Click to expand...

As there is no sin in God. there can be no sinners in God either.
We are "hid with Christ in God", "in God". (Col 3:3)

All humans sin. The Bible makes that clear. We are commanded to NOT SIN, but we have a remedy for when we do. Confession of sin.

Click to expand...

All "new creatures" don't commit sin.
They have all been reborn from Godly seed and cannot bear wicked fruit. (1 John 3:9)
Grape vines cannot bring forth figs and God's seed cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

Phil W said:

Can't I say "I have no sin" after my confession and forgiveness?

Click to expand...

? No.
This is partly why (the very next part of the post) >>

Phil W said:

Don't you see from the scripture you provided that a repentance without ALL sin included is no repentance at all?

Click to expand...

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"Oh, I see now. Your theology includes some kind of contrived time table for who is saved.
So, where in the Bible is this notion taught? Please share."
Where is such a verse, please?

Click to expand...

1 Peter 4:17..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
Romans 2:3..."And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?"
2 Cor 5:10..."For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Are you kidding? Are you really not aware of the doctrine of divine discipline, which is painful, btw. Heb 12:11.

Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the fact that your doctrine has claimed the trophy without completing the "race".

Twice, Paul noted believers who were turned over to Satan. One for the destruction of the flesh. That's physical death at the hands of Satan, who knows how to torture better than the Roman army. The other was to "learn not to blaspheme".
Does that sound like "debauchery without fear"?

Click to expand...

But according to you, they were believes, so have eternal life already.

You are just denying what the Bible clearly teaches.
The MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13.
Recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN they believe) shall never perish. John 10:28
What you haven't done is prove to me that these verses don't teach what I claim they teach.

Click to expand...

I have gotten you to acknowledge that not all "believers" are real believers.
Those who don't demonstrate a love of God above all else are false believers.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

?
No.

Click to expand...

Then the sin wasn't really forgiven.

This is partly why (the very next part of the post) >>

Click to expand...

You lost me...?

FreeGrace2 said:

Correct.


btw, most sinners go to hell. Some sinners go to heaven.

Matt 7-
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


What you fail to grasp is that this struggle IS spiritual. The Bible makes that clear.

Gal 5:17 - For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

If you don't see the spiritual struggle in this, I cannot help you.


Once again, the words "I die daily" cannot be literal. We only die physically ONCE.

Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Yes, Paul did put his physical life on the line daily, but that's NOT the same as "dying daily".

Click to expand...

freegrace,

1. All sinners go to hell and no sinners go to Heaven Revelation 20:10:15; 21:7. Hebrews 12:14. Sinners are not holy.

2. Matthew 7:13-14 doesn’t even substantiate your claim of some sinners go to Heaven.

3. I am not arguing the point that there is not a spiritual war between the flesh and the Spirit.
Paul is not talking about that in 1 Corinthians 15 in connection with I Die Daily.

4. I’ve already told you that I never said or believed that I die daily was dying physically everyday.
Also, there have been many people that have died more than once.
Jesus raised Lazarus and he had to die again because Jesus had to be the first fruits of those that slept 1 Corinthians 15:23.
Smith Wigglesworth raised his wife from the dead because he loved her so much. After 1.5 hours of talking she said it was time to go and she fell asleep peacefully.

5. I Die Daily is because they were in jeopardy every hour 1 Corinthians 15:30.
Who was rejoicing and why? Verse 12 are those who said there was no resurrection of the dead.
Jesus had to put up with people like them call the Sadduccees Mark 12:18.
Paul even brought up those who baptized for the dead and said if they don’t rise up from the dead, which is physical resurrection then why should they do it.
Both verse 13 and 29 are both about physical resurrection and follow in line with vs 30; why stand we in jeopardy and why he protested by their rejoicing I die daily. This is in the context of 1 Corinthians 15:1-31.

6. 2 Corinthians 4:10-11; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The spiritual reason that he was in jeopardy every hour.
Romans 8:36; As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Killed all the day long shows their lives were in jeopardy everyday for the cause of Christ.
There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 15:1-31 about the struggle between the flesh and the spirit or dying to sin or crucifying the flesh. It doesn’t mean there are not these things but not in this context and has no connection to it.
You have shown you don’t understand proper hermeneutics or how to reconcile scriptures properly.
We all must be fair to exegesis and you have shown that you do not want to be fair. Why? Only God knows and you may know or may not know. I have my thoughts but I’ll try to refrain from giving them. I would encourage you to be honest and fair. Jerry Kelso

FreeGrace2 said:

Every human being is a sinner. Maybe you didn't know that.

Rom 3:9 - 9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God


It wasn't designed to. Just read Romans 3 until all of it sinks in.


If "true believers" cannot sin, then the war wouldn't matter.


I have tired of this silly argument. All you are seeming to say is that Paul was speaking metaphorically rather than literally when he wrote "I die daily".

OK, whatever. Let's move on, ok?

Click to expand...

freegrace,

1. We are sinners before we get saved.
That is the context in short.

2. Paul was talking about the workings of the law and what it could do and not do.
He showed the truth of both Jews and gentiles stand before God guilt as a sinner. This is under the umbrella of all mankind being sinners.
David said we were conceived in sin in Psalms and Paul wrote earlier in Romans 5:12 that Adam’s sin was passed unto all men.
Romans 3 is not about men being sinners after they are saved.
Romans 5:8 says But God commendeth his love toward us , in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

3. Wasn’t designed to? That is more or less what you were saying. That means you are not being truthful.
Then you go to Romans 3? You just pick and choose whatever scripture you want and try to make it stick and you can’t. I’ve already addressed that and debunked your theory.

4. I didn’t say true believers couldn’t sin.
You are making up false accusations.

5. Silly argument? You are the one that agrees with me when I give you the context and then say it’s not the real point. You know you’re wrong cause you have no way to disprove the truth of the context that I gave.

6. The phrase I die daily by itself is not literal or metaphorical physical resurrection. People don’t die everyday.
I die daily is not literal or metaphorical spiritually.
Paul believed in dying to sin once and he was as crucified with Christ represents when he got saved by the power of the finished work of the cross and resurrection.
I die daily is not literal or metaphorical struggling with the flesh or living in the spirit.
It is none of these bad the literal phrase “I die daily”.
The phrase I die daily is a literal and metaphorical that means that Paul was in jeopardy everyday for the cause of Christ and the jeopardy was becoming a martyr which is someone who died for a cause.
This is in conjunction with Paul’s belief in the physical resurrection with purpose.

7. A definition of a sinner is one who sins.
A definition of a Christian is not who he is in Christ and refers to the thought of nature. That is why Christians are not sinners.
Paul said we are no longer slaves to sin.
As I said before you do not understand Biblical hermeneutics.
You only understand what you think it means out of your own understanding, not to mention whatever you want it to mean. Quit being unfair in exegesis. Jerry Kelso

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"What you continue to fail to understand is your sinful nature still resides in you and gets its way at times, at least. But you deny that."
If your understanding were correct, then we wouldn't have Romans 6 and 7. But since we DO have these 2 chapters, it is obvious that your understanding is amiss.

Click to expand...

As Rom 6 concerns the death of the old man, (with the affections and lusts...Gal 5:24), and Rom 7 records Paul's remembered laments of his prior walk in the flesh, plus the answer/cure for it, your mention of Rom 6 and 7 seems to benefit my side of this disagreement.

Jesus had 2 natures: human and divine. Believers have 2 natures: sinful nature, and the new, born again nature, that cannot sin. But, as Romans 6 clearly shows, believers have a choice as to whom they will obey; sin or righteousness.

Click to expand...

Thankfully, "believers" can crucify the old man and it's nature with Christ at water baptism.
It is no longer a factor in our lives.
Jesus never served His "fleshly" lusts, and we don't have to either.

This is getting old. Yes, he is. Believers IN fellowship, filled with the Spirit, living in the light, and believers OUT OF fellowship, grieving/quenching the Spirit, living in darkness.

Click to expand...

You are asserting we can walk in light and the darkness at the same time?
That we can walk in God and sin at the same time?
"Believers" out of fellowship are not believers.
They are unbelievers.

Error alert. All the verses in 1 John are for believers.

Click to expand...

They are indeed, but not all of the verses apply to all the readers.
The verses concerning those who walk in darkness/sin don't apply to those who are walking in the light/God.
The verses concerning light/God are of no use to those in the darkness

Exactly. Walking in the light and "having fellowship" are equated, or synonymous.

Click to expand...

That's fellowship with God...right?
And those walking in darkness/sin have no fellowship with God...right?

Because they fail to grasp what it means to have their sins washed away. It doesn't mean that there is no more sin, as you opine. It means they have been justified and no longer under condemnation.

Click to expand...

I'll stick to the plain wording of God's scriptures.
Your doctrine does away with the need for the shedding of the blood of Christ...to wash away our past sins.
It is clearly written..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)

But they STILL sin. Which is WHY we have 1 John 1:9. For cleansing of our sins.

Click to expand...

I thought you just said our sins are not washed away?
You are denying yourself.

But v.8 and 10 SAY that those who claim they have no sin, or have not sinned are deceived and the truth isn't in them. iow, they are believing a LIE.

Click to expand...

The words address those who walk in darkness/sin.
The same words were used to describe those who claim to have fellowship with God but still commit sin/walk in darkness...in verse 6.
They "lie and do not the truth".
You are asserting a counter story; that men who commit sin/walk in darkness do have fellowship with God.

The Bible refers to our physical bodies as "body of corruption", so NO, you can't.

Click to expand...

2 Pet 1:4 and 2:20[/QUOTE]
So Jesus freed us from nothing at all.
How sad.
Even with His statement that the truth shall free us from service to sin...in John 8:32-34.
Just because God's temple on earth now has skin on it is no reason for me to be a debtor to sin.

No, I don't. There are many many different kinds of sin. Which I've already shown from James 2:11. Turning from 1 category of sin (adultery) doesn't mean you've turned from murder. Or gossip. Or ANY OTHER sin.

Click to expand...

It does if the repentance is from sin.

The sin of NOT believing the Bible, specifically 1 John 1:8 and 10.

Click to expand...

Which bible was available during the time John wrote his letters?

Let's be clear here. When a believer sins, they have no fellowship with God.

Click to expand...

You mean "when unbelievers sin".
Believers believe 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Believers find the escapes.
Believers love God more than they love sin.
Those who worship sin more than God are idolaters, and no idolater is a believer.

Didn't you read my explanation from John 13 regarding Jesus washing the disciples' feet and Peter getting sideways with Jesus about washing his feet?? And I explained the necessity of foot washing in Jesus' day, because of WHERE people walked.
And I gave an example of you going to a very good friend's house, for some fellowship, but you walked in dog poop and tracked it all over your friend's house. How much fellowship do you think you're going to have with your friend?
That's how God views our sin. Highly offensive. That is why we MUST be cleansed of our sins (dog poop on our shoes) in order to enter God's presence and have fellowship with Him.

Click to expand...

And you keep writing that that can't happen...for some reason.
You wrote that we can never say we have no sin but keep detailing how we can be cleansed of all sin.
That, to me, is double-mindedness.

And that's what 1 John 1:9 is for; to be cleansed and purified of our sins. Like washing the dog poop off your shoes so you can have fellowship with your friend.

Click to expand...

But according to you we can never be cleansed of our sin.
You are trapped in the spin cycle of false doctrine.

What's pitiful is your complete failure to follow anything I've posted.

Click to expand...

Sorry, too many u-turns and dead ends.

first, there is NO SUCH THING as an "eternal sin". You've got quite the imagination. Sin is something that occurs on earth. Once the believer dies and enters eternity, they NO LONGER sin. Read all of 1 Cor 15.

Click to expand...

Eternal sin is your doctrine...you can't stop sinning and you cant be cleansed of all past sin...how is that NOT eternal sin?

And my views aren't locked into anything. Nonsense. Instead, I simply recognize the reality that believers STILL have their original natures and can STILL sin. That's WHY God gave us the Holy Spirit, to empower us to live the Christian life, in His power. But this is no guarantee. Even Paul used the present tense in Romans 7 regarding his own struggle with sin and in 1 Tim 1:15.

Click to expand...

I just read this at Jack in the Box tonight..."Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor 3:16-17)
All the false believers you describe shall be destroyed.

So stop kidding yourself, sinner. We all are.

Click to expand...

You can fix that by turning from sin.

This is pitiful as well. We are saved WHEN we believe in Christ for His work on our behalf, and He gives us the gift of eternal life, and notes that we shall never perish.

Click to expand...

...if we believe.
Sinners don't love God, so how can they "believe?

Then explain WHY the NT is full of commands NOT to sin, and to be holy. The Bible refutes your erroneous views.

Click to expand...

So we can keep living without sin.
Reminders never hurt anyone.
They are called exhortations and warnings for our own good.

This is just laughable. I haven't EVER defended sin. I do acknowledge sin though. Unlike yourself.

Click to expand...

Your whole purpose in this thread is to defend sin.

See? You really don't grasp anything I've posted. I've NEVER asserted that unbelievers can have fellowship with God. That is beyond absurd.
But, please cite the post # and the exact words of "assertion".

Click to expand...

How about this post?
"Stop kidding yourself, sinner. We all are."
Guess what!
I am a believer, I walk in the light/God, and there is no sin in God.

Why do you assume cleansing is permanent and a one time deal? That's a whole lot of your problem.

Click to expand...

If man turns from sin, they are non-sinners.
No further cleansing is necessary after our initial cleansing by the blood of Christ.
If there were more sin, it would indicate the repentance from sin was a lie to God.
We can't forge a relationship with God that is based on lies.
Turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
That's a powerful weapon in the fight to remain pure.

The issue for believers isn't to become sinless, and the Bible doesn't teach that.
The issue is for believers to sin less.

Click to expand...

Why sin less?
What difference does it make? (according to your POV)

Your views are in direct conflict with Scripture. As I've shown.

Click to expand...

Your use of scripture validates a life dedicated to continued hate of God.
Jesus said..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Matt 6:24)
Servants of sin hate God...according to Jesus.

FreeGrace2 said:

And we are sinners AFTER we get saved. You've got NO evidence from Scripture that after salvation, sinning stops.


Not.

If your claim were true, then there would be NO NEED for any of the many commands to stop sinning. And the solution to sin, after salvation, in 1 John 1:9.


How do you know that?


OK.


Please explain your fuzzy logic here.


Where did you do that? Please cite post #.


Do you believe that after salvation, the believer won't ever sin?


If it isn't either literal or metaphorical, then what is it? Why don't you answer?


Why do you think "dying to sin" means no longer sinning? It refers to the PENALTY of sin.


Are you ever going to answer my question about what it means?


OK, now you've expressed your very own opinion.


1 Tim 1:15 shows that even Paul considered himself a sinner. In fact, the "greatest of sinners". He used the present tense.


Wow. Wrong on all counts.

First, a Christian IS "who he is IN CHRIST". Haven't you ever read Eph 1 and 2? Just count the number of phrases, "in Him", "in Christ", etc.

Second, I have no idea what this "thought of nature is" or refers to. Please advise.

Third, your second statement is just a conclusion from a wrong opinion. There was nothing in either of your statements that results in a conclusion of "that's why...".


Positionally, true, but experientially, not.


As I've pointed out, you do not understand the Bible.


No, you've expressed your own opinions quite enough. ie; your own understanding.

Click to expand...

freegrace,

1. I never said that Christians can’t sin or will not stop sinning after they get saved.
It is possible to stop sinning if one lived with the overcoming power of God all the time.
2 Peter 4:1 says the flesh has ceased from sin so it won’t fulfill the things the things of the flesh.
The condition is to arm ourselves with the arm of suffering. So it possible to live free from sin all our lives after salvation. It is a possibility not a probability because of the weakness of man.
If you don’t believe in living free from sin at al for any amount of time then you don’t believe in the overcoming power of God Romans 8:37.

2. The scripture says we are a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:17.
There is no scripture that calls Christians sinners after they have been saved.
1 Timothy 1:15 is talking about Paul’s Old life in sin. Read Verse 13; who was before a blasphemer and a persecutor and injurious: but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly.
Paul used the sin of verse 13 to claim to the title chief of sinners.
He was used as a pattern for all who would believe on Christ to everlasting life.
Even plain statements have contexts no matter what tense they are.

3. Romans 3:9-20 is the summary of the whole world being guilty before God.
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile when it comes to being born into sin. David said we were conceived in sin. That is why Paul could say; all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

4. I die daily by itself does not mean physically in the literal sense, otherwise Paul would have been dying physically everyday and we know that didn’t happen.
It could mean metaphorical spiritually but that is not the context.
It couldn’t literally mean be in jeopardy everyday because being in jeopardy is being in danger not dying physically everyday.
Paul was killed in the hearts of men literally everyday because of the message of the death, burial and resurrection and because of those who didn’t believe in the physical resurrection and that is why he said in 2 Corinthians 4 that death worked in him but life in his converts.
Physical resurrection is connected to this context because it was Paul’s purpose and destiny for life.

5. Dying to sin; Romans 6;10-14.
Christ died to sin once and was alive unto God.
We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin. We are not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies.
Don’t yield your members to unrighteousness in sin but instruments of righteousness to God.
For sin shall not dominion over us because we are not under law but grace.
This is an exhortation to live free from sin because we have better promises under the New Covenant to overcome sin. Romans 8:37.
It is not talking about the penalty of sin till Romans 6:23; But the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.

6. A definition of a sinner is one who sins.
This could be said of a Christian who sins.
But since we are not sinners because we’ve been saved from sin it is referring to not being our nature.
The reason people say we are sinners saved by grace is because they believe in the dual nature theory that say we have a sinful nature and a new creation nature.
Ephesians 2:3; Among whom also we had our conversation in times past in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; AND WERE BY NATURE THE CHILDREN OF WRATH.
Romans 7 Paul shows his life under the law of Moses and how the law of sin and death took advantage of the law that was holy and good and made them live to the frailty of man.
The law of sin and death that took advantage of the law that was holy and good and made them live to the frailty of man was done away with by the law of the Spirit Romans 8:2.
It doesn’t mean we can’t get back in that same state but it is not to be our nature or mentality or who we are.

7. A Christian is to be who we are in Christ so I apologize for putting that statement that was opposite, I didn’t mean to put that in there . I must have got in a hurry.

8. Of you believe you have the sin nature then it is natural for you to sin and be disobedient because it is who you really are.
The new creation means you gravitate naturally to obey God.
Biblically speaking you can’t serve two masters so you can’t have the devils nature and God’s nature at the same time.

9. We are no longer sins to slave in the state of a Christian or positionally like you mentioned.
By experience we can allow sin to enslave us by strongholds for Satan knows our weaknesses. We are to overcome all things.
Until we have changed masters and do not live for God anymore we are not sinners by nature. Jerry Kelso

FreeGrace2 said:

Romans 7 is NOT about your so-called "remembered laments", no matter how many times you or others repeats that.

Click to expand...

Rom 7 is a transition form Rom 6's end of walking in the flesh and Rom 8's start to walk in the Spirit.

Nope. The believer crucifies the old man when he functions from his new nature, under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Click to expand...

And Rom 6 attributes that death to water baptism.
Out with the old and in with the new.

It sure is when the believer grieves and/or quenches the Spirit. Why do you ignore these very specific commands that are directed to believers?

Click to expand...

Believers do no such thing.
You are erroneously attributing works of the flesh to those who walk in the Spirit.

Right. We don't have to, but we still do. 1 John 1:8 and 10 refute your views. And v.9 is the solution to our sin problem.

Click to expand...

You are again erroneously attributing works of the flesh to those who walk in the Spirit.

I gave an explanation of how the example of Jesus washing the feet of His disciples parallels confession of sin. It's necessary fo "having a part with Him". Read John 13.
Jesus made it clear that Peter was already "clean", or saved, and didn't need another bath. I showed the necessity of washing feet in Jesus' day. Just as confession is necessary for us, for cleansing from sin.

Click to expand...

If our sin can be cleansed, we CAN say we have no sin.
You refute your own POV on 1 John 1:8.

To claim that a believer can cease from sin permanently is beyond naive.

Click to expand...

Thank God for the gift of repentance. A permanent turn from sin.
Thank God for the gift of the Holy Ghost to help maintain that turn from sin.

Good grief, NO. Didn't you read any of my post?
Walking in the light refers to being IN fellowship with the Lord, and walking in darkness refers to being OUT OF fellowship with the Lord.

Click to expand...

1 John 1: 5 says "...God is light,"...but you say it is "fellowship"
Your interpretation is thwarted by scripture.
Walking in darkness means walking in sin. (Pro 4:19)

We find the same concept in 4 commands by Paul:
1. be filled with the Spirit. Eph 5:18
2. walk by means of the Spirit. Gal 5:16
3. do not grieve the Spirit. Eph 4:30
4. do not quench the Spirit. 1 Thess 5:19
The first 2 commands result in walking in the light.
The last 2 commands result in walking in darkness.

Click to expand...

Believers adhere to what Jesus' disciples exhort.
Unbelievers see no need to...and don't.

According to the Bible, an unbeliever is one who NEVER believed.

Click to expand...

I can agree with that.
Some folk's' unbelief just isn't manifested right away.

Quite wrong, again. btw, Christ died for ALL sins, not just your so-called "past sins".

Click to expand...

As my "belief" is manifested by obedience, there will be no other kinds of sin but past ones.

But maybe you have never read Hebrews, esp 7:27, and 10:2,10,12,14.
Please explain 10:14 - For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Click to expand...

Seems you are using a version of the bible dedicated to keeping folks forever "partially" holy.
The word "being" indicates some ongoing effort by God.
But He has gracefully provided one step to be holy.

And while you're at it, please answer this: how can "one sacrifice" "make perfect FOREVER, if He only died for "past sins"?

Click to expand...

How did you manage to miss the word "perfect" in your own post?
After having been made "perfect", there is no more imperfection/sin.

This is a cleansing of all your sins since you last confessed your sins.
You seemt to be confused about the difference between paying the sin debt "once and for all" and the on-going need for washing your dirty feet.

Click to expand...

It has been difficult to convince you that you don't need to be repeatedly cleansed after you have been made clean.
"Perfected forever"...remember?

Why would I say that? Jesus did that once for all.
You are having a hard time understanding what I post.
I am NOT. You are just very confused.
This very stupid conclusion does NOT come from anything I've posted. Jesus freed us from the PENALTY of sin. By paying that debt Himself. Or do you disagree?
Do you think you pay for all of your sins that aren't "past sins"? What happens to them in your opinion?
You post as though believers never sin, and lead perfect lives. nonsense. And very naive.
This is a policy statement. Not a statement of fact.
Haven't you ever read 1 Cor 10:1-11? I suggest you do.
I think your opinions have so clouded your thinking that you can't actually follow my discussion. Your opinions just keep getting in the way.
Confession of on-going sin is just like walking through the paths in Jesus' day and getting animal poop on your feet. Even just after a bath, you STILL need to have your feet cleaned after walking about during the day.
What you deny, without evidence, is that the believer no longer sins. If that were true, then there would be NO NEED of any warnings against sin, or commands to be holy, etc.
You're just not understanding. You ARE cleansed by confession. Until you sin again. Then you need another foot bath.
I can only imagine how much crusted filth is on your own feet, if you haven't been aware of the on-going need to confess your sins.
I'm just very sad that you are having such a hard time with my explanations.
I'll bet you think that to be "destroyed" refers to hell, right?
I've already proved that the list of possible sins is too great to all be turned away from once.
Only when IN fellowship by confession of sin, and being filled with the Spirit.
Cop-out answer. There are NOT NEEDED if believers DON'T sin.
Have you already forgotten your own position; that believers don't sin? That they love God? That they don't need confession?
Gimme a break.
That would be your own twisted and quite erroneous view of my views.
Quite to the contrary, believers NEED to deal with their sins by confessing them regularly. But you seem completely unaware of your own sins.
You're NOT walking in the light WHEN you claim you no longer sin and don't have any need to confess sins.
You STILL haven't proven your theory from Scripture. Just a lot of opinion.
Error alert!!
No, it wouldn't.
Did King David rape Bathsheba and murder Uriah before or after he was saved?
Your opinions and conclusions are beyond absurd.

Click to expand...

As staying in the light/God is so untasteful to you, it must just be the thrill of constant typing that keeps you replying to my posts.

FreeGrace2 said:

That has been my point all along.

Now, this thread isn't about sin. It's about the fact that Christians cannot lose salvation.

Forum rules forbid "hijacking" threads with off-topic subjects. So, let's focus on the OP and the title of this thread.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

freegrace2,

1. Your point is to be unfair in exegesis no matter what the subject is.
The only reason I went to 1 Corinthians 15 is to see if you really understood context which you don’t.

2. If you want to talk about whether a Christian can lose their salvation or not you may go first. Jerry Kelso