About eating meat offered to idols

Aldebaran · Sep 13, 2019

Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 for the whole short chapter. But when I saw it recently, it didn't make any sense to me. Here's why:

In verses 4-6, he makes it clear that idols are nothing. In verse 8, he makes it clear that if we eat that meat or not, it has no real effect. But before that in verse 7 he says that some people have a weak conscience and it is defiled if they go against it. Ok, so what would help a person with a weak conscience? Wouldn't it be to make it strong? Isn't that what God would want for them? Well, let's go to verse 10 where Paul talks about someone who has a strong conscience, along with the knowledge that an idol is nothing, and that eating meat offered to it has no effect. Then the one with the weak conscience comes in and sees that--and he becomes encouraged to eat. Sounds good, right? I mean, the guy with the stronger conscience and knowledge that something is ok to do and demonstrates it encourages the guy with the weaker conscience to do that thing.

To me, this sounds like a person without knowledge being taught by a person who has the knowledge what is permissible to do without doing anything wrong. A good thing, right? But then comes verse 11 that states that the weaker conscience person is DESTROYED. But how? How is he doing anything wrong if eating meat offered to an idol is no different than any other meat? How could he be destroyed by doing something that he's learned isn't even wrong?

Aside from this particular example, there are plenty of examples more relevant for today. Here's one: Person A believes computers are of the devil and the internet is a gateway to sin, and therefore we aren't to use one. Person B believes no such thing. A computer and the net is just a tool to use. So then Person B uses one, and the Person A comes along and sees what many useful resources there are and decides, "Hey! Maybe this isn't the evil thing I thought it was!", and then goes out and buys a computer and uses it, and discovers that it really is just a tool and is very useful.

Did Person A just "destroy" Person B?

Akita Suggagaki · Sep 13, 2019

I agree with you. I guess the point Paul tries to make is that we are tempting a person to go against their own conscience even though it is in error.

We often discuss yoga on this forum. Seems to me similar.

Aldebaran · Sep 13, 2019

Akita Suggagaki said:
I agree with you. I guess the point Paul tries to make is that we are tempting a person to go against their own conscience even though it is in error.

We often discuss yoga on this forum. Seems to me similar.

Oh, I see that, but how can a person's weak conscience be strengthened otherwise? I'm assuming that a stronger conscience is more preferable to a weak one. I've known people who have very weak consciences, and they drive themselves nuts about everything because they see something wrong in everything. They are hardly ever at peace. It wouldn't seem like this is the way God wants us to be. Paul certainly wasn't.

Halbhh · Sep 13, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 for the whole short chapter. But when I saw it recently, it didn't make any sense to me. Here's why:

In verses 4-6, he makes it clear that idols are nothing. In verse 8, he makes it clear that if we eat that meat or not, it has no real effect. But before that in verse 7 he says that some people have a weak conscience and it is defiled if they go against it. Ok, so what would help a person with a weak conscience? Wouldn't it be to make it strong? Isn't that what God would want for them? Well, let's go to verse 10 where Paul talks about someone who has a strong conscience, along with the knowledge that an idol is nothing, and that eating meat offered to it has no effect. Then the one with the weak conscience comes in and sees that--and he becomes encouraged to eat. Sounds good, right? I mean, the guy with the stronger conscience and knowledge that something is ok to do and demonstrates it encourages the guy with the weaker conscience to do that thing.

To me, this sounds like a person without knowledge being taught by a person who has the knowledge what is permissible to do without doing anything wrong. A good thing, right? But then comes verse 11 that states that the weaker conscience person is DESTROYED. But how? How is he doing anything wrong if eating meat offered to an idol is no different than any other meat? How could he be destroyed by doing something that he's learned isn't even wrong?

Aside from this particular example, there are plenty of examples more relevant for today. Here's one: Person A believes computers are of the devil and the internet is a gateway to sin, and therefore we aren't to use one. Person B believes no such thing. A computer and the net is just a tool to use. So then Person B uses one, and the Person A comes along and sees what many useful resources there are and decides, "Hey! Maybe this isn't the evil thing I thought it was!", and then goes out and buys a computer and uses it.

Did Person A just "destroy" Person B?

This same message (and some more) is in Romans chapter 14, and in a discussion not long ago about it, people agreed that the Romans chapter 14 version -- which is about the exact same principle -- is easier to understand fully.

But one thing that is so great in this 1rst Corinthians chapter 8 version is that it has the wonderful and so useful instruction to us:

Knowledge puffs up, but Love builds up.

...we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.

Hallelujah!

This will help so much!
Romans 14 NIV

And it was not only for that time in the 1rst century, when for example, women needed to be more quiet because of men that were weak and could not accept all of the change, but it also applies today for us all: we all must be ready and willing to sacrifice perfectly ok freedoms when it is needed for the weak person in front of us.

That might be clothing changes, or food changes, or even letting someone speak up now, today, because they are weak and need it for their belief. Today, it could help some weak among women to see a woman helping to lead the service, today in 2019.

Aldebaran · Sep 13, 2019

Halbhh said:
This same message (and some more) is in Romans chapter 14, and in a discussion not long ago about it, people agreed that the Romans chapter 14 version -- which is about the exact same principle -- is easier to understand fully.

But one thing that is so great in this 1rst Corinthians chapter 8 version is that it has the wonderful and so useful instruction to us:

Knowledge puffs up, but Love builds up.

...we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.

Hallelujah!

This will help so much!
Romans 14 NIV

And it was not only for that time in the 1rst century, when for example, women needed to be more quiet because of men that were weak and could not accept all of the change, but it also applies today for us all: we all must be ready and willing to sacrifice perfectly ok freedoms when it is needed for the weak person in front of us.

That might be clothing changes, or food changes, or even letting someone speak up now, today, because they are weak and need it for their belief. Today, it could help some weak among women to see a woman helping to lead the service, today in 2019.

I just went to Romans 14 and read it. It certainly does go into more detail. It also raises more questions. It almost sounds like Paul is saying that it doesn't matter as much what is true, but rather what a person believes to be true. If Paul was a member on this forum and was responding to my thread, and I came here and asked, "Is it ok to eat meat? Some people think it's ok, but others think it's not and the bible says it's ok." Then Paul might write back and say, "It's ok unless you feel it's not". I'd most likely respond with a :scratch:

Halbhh · Sep 13, 2019

Aldebaran said:
I just went to Romans 14 and read it. It certainly does go into more detail. It also raises more questions. It almost sounds like Paul is saying that it doesn't matter as much what is true, but rather what a person believes to be true. If Paul was a member on this forum and was responding to my thread, and I came here and asked, "Is it ok to eat meat? Some people think it's ok, but others think it's not and the bible says it's ok." Then Paul might write back and say, "It's ok unless you feel it's not". I'd most likely respond with a

Well, usually today, you won't have to apply this often, because most everyone in a church will have much the same viewpoints of so many things. But it is possible there could be an unusual new believer, new in the faith, who joins and who is adamantly vegetarian, and really does believe eating animals is cruelty. Because that's where they are at, for now, for this moment.

You learn about their belief and their real belief in it (it's for real for them).

In your church, you also have a monthly shared supper at rotating houses, and here's what you could do -- you invite them to join, to come to your house, and you learn some new vegetarian dishes, and make a vegetarian meal. Praise the Lord.

paul1149 · Sep 13, 2019

Aldebaran said:
But then comes verse 11 that states that the weaker conscience person is DESTROYED. But how? How is he doing anything wrong if eating meat offered to an idol is no different than any other meat? How could he be destroyed by doing something that he's learned isn't even wrong?

If the guy with the weaker conscience is instructed and understands and the issue is truly settled in him, then he is edified and strengthened and the potential stumbling block is removed. But if he merely "sees" (v. 10) you doing something he thinks is wrong, then especially if he is a younger brother he may think the qualms of his conscience don't need to be respected. His conscience gets seared, and this could affect him in other areas as well.

Aldebaran said:
Person A believes computers are of the devil and the internet is a gateway to sin, and therefore we aren't to use one. Person B believes no such thing. A computer and the net is just a tool to use. So then Person B uses one, and the Person A comes along and sees what many useful resources there are and decides, "Hey! Maybe this isn't the evil thing I thought it was!", and then goes out and buys a computer and uses it, and discovers that it really is just a tool and is very useful.

This brings out the last point I made, about other areas possibly being affected. Let's say Person A sees B using the computer and internet. B tells A there's nothing inherently wrong with it. A believes him and starts using it himself. But A wasn't fully prepared for what he would encounter, being sheltered all his life by an over-stringent conscience, and soon he falls into the trap of inappropriate contentography.

I think that's what's behind what Paul is saying. The other person has to be truly ready for the freedom, otherwise he will not have the necessary discernment to use it beneficially, without harming himself.

Daniel Marsh · Sep 18, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 for the whole short chapter. But when I saw it recently, it didn't make any sense to me. Here's why:

In verses 4-6, he makes it clear that idols are nothing. In verse 8, he makes it clear that if we eat that meat or not, it has no real effect. But before that in verse 7 he says that some people have a weak conscience and it is defiled if they go against it. Ok, so what would help a person with a weak conscience? Wouldn't it be to make it strong? Isn't that what God would want for them? Well, let's go to verse 10 where Paul talks about someone who has a strong conscience, along with the knowledge that an idol is nothing, and that eating meat offered to it has no effect. Then the one with the weak conscience comes in and sees that--and he becomes encouraged to eat. Sounds good, right? I mean, the guy with the stronger conscience and knowledge that something is ok to do and demonstrates it encourages the guy with the weaker conscience to do that thing.

To me, this sounds like a person without knowledge being taught by a person who has the knowledge what is permissible to do without doing anything wrong. A good thing, right? But then comes verse 11 that states that the weaker conscience person is DESTROYED. But how? How is he doing anything wrong if eating meat offered to an idol is no different than any other meat? How could he be destroyed by doing something that he's learned isn't even wrong?

Aside from this particular example, there are plenty of examples more relevant for today. Here's one: Person A believes computers are of the devil and the internet is a gateway to sin, and therefore we aren't to use one. Person B believes no such thing. A computer and the net is just a tool to use. So then Person B uses one, and the Person A comes along and sees what many useful resources there are and decides, "Hey! Maybe this isn't the evil thing I thought it was!", and then goes out and buys a computer and uses it, and discovers that it really is just a tool and is very useful.

Did Person A just "destroy" Person B?

Romans 14 also applies. The one with weak Consciousness likely came out of that false religion. For them it is a sin. They may have already been informed, but they want to avoid that temptation because it is a strong one for them. If person A with knowledge of person B in their presence, then person A would be causes them to fall.

Aldebaran · Sep 18, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
Romans 14 also applies. The one with weak Consciousness likely came out of that false religion. For them it is a sin. They may have already been informed, but they want to avoid that temptation because it is a strong one for them. If person A with knowledge of person B in their presence, then person A would be causes them to fall.

This is the part that has me confused. If it is a false religion, and an idol is truly nothing, then wouldn't the person coming out of it be more of an overcomer if he was shown by example by those who know better that eating meat offered to an idol is perfectly ok? Otherwise, he would continue on in his life believing that an idol is a god and to be feared, and that the meat offered to it is still somehow different. To let him continue to believe that would seem to justify an idol as an actual god with some kind of power--and therefore has power over the person who fears it. Am I right?

Halbhh · Sep 18, 2019

Aldebaran said:
This is the part that has me confused. If it is a false religion, and an idol is truly nothing, then wouldn't the person coming out of it be more of an overcomer if he was shown by example by those who know better that eating meat offered to an idol is perfectly ok? Otherwise, he would continue on in his life believing that an idol is a god and to be feared, and that the meat offered to it is still somehow different. To let him continue to believe that would seem to justify an idol as an actual god with some kind of power--and therefore has power over the person who fears it. Am I right?

Think of it this way: when a person has a weakness, you don't put that temptation right in front of them.

Good example: suppose someone was an alcoholic, which is sin, and they have left it, and are now saved and sober.

Knowing that, you don't offer them wine.

Even though wine is perfectly ok to drink in moderation.

1 Corinthians chapter 8 is a full passage, the whole chapter too. At the end, we see Paul generalize the principle: now it's not only meat offered to idols, but even if necessary all meat entirely (regardless of whether offered to idols) -- the point is that we do what it takes for the sake of those who are weak.

Not in the expectation they will always be weak, but in the understanding that they are right now, for now, still like a newborn in some ways, still on wobbly legs, even if full of energy and spirit.

Halbhh · Sep 18, 2019

Progressing:

But still not old enough yet for a big pit in the yard right in front of them.

Halbhh · Sep 18, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 for the whole short chapter. But when I saw it recently, it didn't make any sense to me. Here's why:

In verses 4-6, he makes it clear that idols are nothing. In verse 8, he makes it clear that if we eat that meat or not, it has no real effect. But before that in verse 7 he says that some people have a weak conscience and it is defiled if they go against it. Ok, so what would help a person with a weak conscience? Wouldn't it be to make it strong? Isn't that what God would want for them? Well, let's go to verse 10 where Paul talks about someone who has a strong conscience, along with the knowledge that an idol is nothing, and that eating meat offered to it has no effect. Then the one with the weak conscience comes in and sees that--and he becomes encouraged to eat. Sounds good, right? I mean, the guy with the stronger conscience and knowledge that something is ok to do and demonstrates it encourages the guy with the weaker conscience to do that thing.

To me, this sounds like a person without knowledge being taught by a person who has the knowledge what is permissible to do without doing anything wrong. A good thing, right? But then comes verse 11 that states that the weaker conscience person is DESTROYED. But how? How is he doing anything wrong if eating meat offered to an idol is no different than any other meat? How could he be destroyed by doing something that he's learned isn't even wrong?

Aside from this particular example, there are plenty of examples more relevant for today. Here's one: Person A believes computers are of the devil and the internet is a gateway to sin, and therefore we aren't to use one. Person B believes no such thing. A computer and the net is just a tool to use. So then Person B uses one, and the Person A comes along and sees what many useful resources there are and decides, "Hey! Maybe this isn't the evil thing I thought it was!", and then goes out and buys a computer and uses it, and discovers that it really is just a tool and is very useful.

Did Person A just "destroy" Person B?

Please let me know if these 2 videos just above help.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 18, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Ok, so what would help a person with a weak conscience? Wouldn't it be to make it strong?

No.
Rather, obey Jesus always, and never do something that can cause them to stumble...

The Scripture is very easy to understand, even in English (which is poor compared to Hebrew and Greek)....
1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother ...

https://biblehub.com › 1_corinthians
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world ... I will never eat meat again, in order to keep my brother from stumbling. NET Bible ... …12By sinning against your brothers in this way and wounding their weak ...

Aldebaran · Sep 19, 2019

Halbhh said:
Please let me know if these 2 videos just above help.

They do. I see the idea about how what Paul was saying is in relation to causing someone to stumble because the person wasn't ready in some way to do something that was perfectly ok to do, but for whatever reason, they weren't ready to do it. I guess Paul's example might be difficult to understand today the way it's written due to the fact that there aren't any religious practices (that I'm aware of) today where meat is offered to an idol as a part of the process.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 19, 2019

HALAL MEAT — What Is Halal Meat And Why Should You Care?

HALAL MEAT â€” What Is Halal Meat And Why Should You Care?
In Muslim and Muslim-majority nations, all meat is halal, all food is halal, and an increasing number of non-food items, including personal care products like skin lotion, are being labeled halal; everything to be purchased for human consumption and use is being dedicated to Allah, the moon god, with portions of the revenues funneled to Islamic terrorist groups. For example, in Malaysia, 60% of whose citizens are Muslim, even Coca Cola is dedicated to Allah (right).

Is it allowable for a Christian to eat halal or kosher meat ...

Is it allowable for a Christian to eat halal or kosher meat?
Today many meats are processed in accordance with Muslim or Jewish practice. If we apply Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 8: 4 1 Corinthians 8: 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Aldebaran · Sep 19, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
HALAL MEAT — What Is Halal Meat And Why Should You Care?
HALAL MEAT â€” What Is Halal Meat And Why Should You Care?
In Muslim and Muslim-majority nations, all meat is halal, all food is halal, and an increasing number of non-food items, including personal care products like skin lotion, are being labeled halal; everything to be purchased for human consumption and use is being dedicated to Allah, the moon god, with portions of the revenues funneled to Islamic terrorist groups. For example, in Malaysia, 60% of whose citizens are Muslim, even Coca Cola is dedicated to Allah (right).

Is it allowable for a Christian to eat halal or kosher meat ...
Is it allowable for a Christian to eat halal or kosher meat?
Today many meats are processed in accordance with Muslim or Jewish practice. If we apply Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 8: 4 1 Corinthians 8: 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Then....I shouldn't eat any meat or even drink Coca Cola anymore because it might cause someone to stumble?

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 19, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Then....I shouldn't eat any meat or even drink Coca Cola anymore because it might cause someone to stumble?

WHere did you ever get such an idea ! ?

Aldebaran · Sep 19, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
WHere did you ever get such an idea ! ?

From reading your previous post. It said:

"In Muslim and Muslim-majority nations, all meat is halal, all food is halal, and an increasing number of non-food items, including personal care products like skin lotion, are being labeled halal; everything to be purchased for human consumption and use is being dedicated to Allah, the moon god, with portions of the revenues funneled to Islamic terrorist groups. For example, in Malaysia, 60% of whose citizens are Muslim, even Coca Cola is dedicated to Allah (right)."

Then it was followed by:

"Today many meats are processed in accordance with Muslim or Jewish practice. If we apply Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 8: 4 1 Corinthians 8: 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one."

Are you saying that someone who is Muslim might be offended by me either eating meat of any kind or drinking Coke, and therefore I should apply those passages as written by Paul so as to avoid causing the one who is Muslim (or used to be) to stumble?

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 19, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Are you saying that someone who is Muslim might be offended by me either eating meat of any kind or drinking Coke, and therefore I should apply those passages as written by Paul so as to avoid causing the one who is Muslim (or used to be) to stumble?

The ones in other religions are walking in darkness all the time. They stumble over Jesus, yet we live Jesus' life daily, and speak His Word daily.

So go and do what Yahuweh the Creator Says to Do in His Word, not something else.

Aldebaran · Sep 19, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
The ones in other religions are walking in darkness all the time. They stumble over Jesus, yet we live Jesus' life daily, and speak His Word daily.

So go and do what Yahuweh the Creator Says to Do in His Word, not something else.

I've read what His word said in the chapter I referenced in the OP. Understanding it comes before doing it. But I believe Halbhh has answered my question.

About eating meat offered to idols

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