Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?
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If that is not enough for you, here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:
Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:
1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would lose a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,
Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:
Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)
And here is a list of potential fallen believers:
The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)
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Eternal life is a person, and it is not a superpower.
1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life. The life being spoken of here in 1 John 5:12 is eternal.
The way we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and "the truth" [i.e. Jesus] is not in them (1 John 2:4).
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But the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12).
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Continue to keep reading. The "Condemnation" is given to us in John 3:19-21. In verse 20, it says everyone who does evil hates the light. So if one sins, they hate the light (or they hate Jesus). This is why Jesus said that if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul says if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).
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This was said to unbelieving Jews. The offer of salvation is not going to be taken back in regards to the nation of Israel. The offer is still on the table for unbelieving Jews. This is not talking about continued salvation after one has accepted the Lord.
Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Unless of course one repents or confesses and forsakes their sin (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, and Proverbs 28:13).
You said:
Sorry, this is not the case. The Bible talk about how seals can be broken, and it talks about how believers can fall away. Check out the following spoiler button to learn more with Scripture.
What is the condition of having the seal of God?
Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
In fact, what is a guarantee?
Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me
Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.
Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.
This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.
Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.
Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —
Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).
Source:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30
Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
In fact, what is a guarantee?
Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me
Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.
Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.
This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.
Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.
Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —
Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).
Source:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30
You said:
The unprofitable servant was given money but he buried it, and he was unprofitable for His Lord and he was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (See Matthew 25:24-25, and Matthew 25:30).
That servant who was faithful over a little was said that he was a faithful servant and that he could enter into the Joy of the Lord, etc. (Matthew 25:21).
If we are kept by the power of God then why on Earth are we told things like this in the Bible?
“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,...” (James 1:12).
“...He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13).
"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).
“To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,...” (Revelation 2:7).
"...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11).
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” (Revelation 3:5).
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).
For we are also told to:
- Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
- Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
- Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).
So salvation is not something that is forever forced upon our life. We have to choose this day in whom we will serve.
John is not talking exhaustively of all people or believers. He is referring to the gnostic believers that thought that sin was an illusion or was not real. Hence why John warned the brethren about their false belief that denied sin's existence with 1 John 1:8. For if we say we have no sin [if we do sin or in the sense that sin is an illusion], we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. For John also says that if we say we know the Lord and we do not keep His commandments, we are a liar and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4). John gives us the proper way to deal with sin (Which is to confess it - 1 John 1:9, and to forsake it - 1 John 1:7).
Not true. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son: When the son came home and he repented to his father, his father said he was "dead" and he is "alive again." This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. He was spiritually dead when he was living in sin, and he became alive again when he came back home and sought forgiveness with his father. This truth is also confirmed in James 5:19-20. Also, Jude talks about those who are twice dead, and they are plucked up by the roots. You cannot be twice dead unless you died spiritually two times within your lifetime.
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Oldmantook
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"Works salvation" is not a term or phrase found in Scripture. Jesus in fact, judges the 7 Churches in Revelation by their works - or lack of. So this term is more confusing rather than helpful. Good works done in obedience to God are the result of salvation (Eph 2:10) however, people can choose to walk away as you say and as a result lose their salvation. They can also lose their salvation through chronic sin/disobedience which is the evidence of an unrepentant life.
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Pulpit Commentary
Verse 24. - False Christs. He shows the nature of the dangers to which believers will be subject. He does not confine his view to Jewish history; he foretells the appearance of pretenders who shall assume the part of Christ, and blasphemously assert that they are Messiah. False prophets. Without assuming the name of Christ, many impostors shall be found who, professing to be inspired or lawful teachers, shall lead hearers into false doctrine, or claim to possess a new revelation, or something additional and supplemental to the eternal gospel. Such was Mohammed; such were the founders of Buddhism, Mormonism, and other so called religions, who based their views on special revelation given from heaven for the purpose of improving the existing faith or introducing a new one. Shall show (δώσουσι, shall give, as Acts 2:19) great signs and wonders. Two usual terms for miracles, the former regarding rather the evidence afforded by them, the latter the element of the marvellous inherent in them (comp John 4:48; Acts 2:22; Acts 7:36 etc.). That such men did work actual miracles, or what were regarded as such, cannot be reasonably doubted. Satan was on their side, and, as far as he was permitted, confirmed their teaching by supernatural assistance. St. Paul testifies that such should be the action of the antichrist, "whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders" (2 Thessalonians 2:9; comp. Revelation 13:13, 14). Many of these wonders may have been effectuated by natural forces unknown to the majority of men, and therefore considered as superhuman; others may have been derived from the spiritual world, but necessarily from that realm thereof which is under the control of evil demons. Whatever may have been their source, they were displayed in support of lies and errors, and had a certain success. Insomuch that if it were possible, they shall deceive (ὤστε πλανῆσαι εἰ δυνατὸν) the very (καὶ, even) elect. The Authorized Version seems to make our Lord imply that such seduction was absolutely impossible. The translation ought to run, as in the Revised Version, so as to lead astray, if possible even the elect, signifying the difficulty, not the impossibility, of drawing them away from the truth. "The elect" are Christians, true followers of Jesus, and members of his Church. These may fall from the faith, for they are not yet finally safe, and on that chance Satan builds; but as long as they rest on Christ, looking to him for guidance and protection, trying the spirits by the Word of God and by the truths which they have learned in creed and worship, they stand firm against the strongest temptations.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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In Romans 11 God breaks off branches that He Himself grafted into the olive tree. Why would He graft in branches that don’t believe only to break them off for unbelief? Verse 20 specifically says these Gentiles who were grafted in stand by their faith and is even contrasting their faith with unbelief.
“Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;”
Romans 11:20 NASB
1 Peter 1:3-5 Peter says the inheritance is irrevocable not the hope of salvation. He is saying that once we receive eternal life we can never lose it. He even says we do not receive it until we reach heaven.
“to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,”
1 Peter 1:4 NASB
For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.”
Galatians 5:5 NASB
Notice Colossians 1:22-23 Paul tells Christians who are reconciled salvation is contingent on remaining in the faith.
“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
Colossians 1:21-23 NASB
“Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,”
Hebrews 3:12-14 NASB
“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,”
1 Timothy 4:1 NASB
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not belong to us! If they had belonged to us, they would have continued with us. But [in fact] they left, so that it might be revealed that none of them belonged to us!
This is speaking about a particular group of people who were spreading lies about Jesus and The Father. There is nothing that indicates that this is or can pertain to everyone who falls away from the faith. As I’ve shown in the above passages genuine believers can fall from grace and slip into doubt and unbelief which will result in loss of salvation if the person does not repent.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
And as noted, mankind fails.
So do some of those who follow Jesus, then turn back to 'Egypt' for the comfort or pleasures or money or friendship of the world.
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Daniel C
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We are told we need to endure to the end because some only clam to believe in God but realistically some do not. God knows who they are and will expose the imposters at the end and judge them accordingly.
Judas was with them but not of them and then he fell away at the end. Because he was never a disciple of Christ inwardly,only lip service.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Can you show anyplace in God's Word that Judas the betrayer "tasted of the heavenlies" ?
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Daniel C
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The OT atonement was different to what it is now,Jesus wasn't around.
In the OT Gods spirits (plural) was used in various ways but generally not to save or condemn the israelites,they fell away as group during time periods for following Pagan Gods. By your logic God has an evil spirit:
''And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.''
God operated different in the OT as he was unveiling his plan and things need to be viewed that way.
Your new Testament verses say nothing about salvation loss. Allusions at best.
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Daniel C
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Well Jesus disagrees with your definition of eternal life. Jesus says we will have it, like he will give it us as a gift. I see no work being done either.
''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''
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Daniel C
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Wrong. We are saved by Gods Grace, by our faith in Jesus Christ our lord and Savior. No works.
''For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world''
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Daniel C
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I agree with John,in our moments of weakness after we are saved and fall back into the old man it's impossible to claim the name of Christ and be walking in the spirit. That does not mean we lose our salvation,that means the born again Christian is walking the flesh. The spirit is still their and will always be there until the day of redemption.
Also if a person says they never sin:
1 John 1:8
''If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.''
LOL,John very politely points out because of our human nature we will always sin and if a person says others they are not telling the truth. I say it more plainly-you say you have no sin? I say you're a liar.
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Daniel C
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Well for starters he was actually asked to talk on the subject:
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
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