Peter1000
Well-Known Member
Except plural marriage is a fundamental issue in Mormonism. You can deny as much (since you have to) but since marriage relates to salvation within Mormonism, for you to deny the connection is implausible. Likewise it is absurd to suggest that the blacks being forbidden from the priesthood is a non essential issue. Why were blacks forbidden? Because they were the Children of Cain and therefore subject to the curse of Cain, at least according to Brigham Young. Yet in the name of Political correctness your Church has abandoned that idea despite it coming from a Prophet whom you feel free to dismiss because a later Prophet said something different and now it's okay for blacks to be part of the priesthood. Yet you want to judge the fathers for trying to apply rules or doing things differently from the Apostles? You have no leg to stand on when not even your own Church acts in an Apostolic fashion and can change things whenever it wants to suite it's own fashion.
Marriage is fundamental, but not plural marriage. If it was fundamental we would still be practicing plural marriage today.
If you know the reason blacks were forbidden the priesthood, why ask me? And you certainly know now why we admit blacks to the priesthood. So why ask me?
I have applied only one doctrine to them, only 1, and that was baptism. You cannot mess with baptism. Unless you can say, in the name of Jesus Christ, I have been given a revelation from Jesus Christ that we can sprinkle water on those infirm and without much water. Does the Didache read like that? Or does it just say, you can......?
They had no choice in receiving revelation peter, that was up to God. You continue to blame them and consider them Godless when I see no hint of that in the Didache. The problem with isolating one verse or sentence in a text in order to condemn the entire thing or the person in question is that it's an unfair interpretation devoid of any grace. I would criticize Joseph Smith and accuse him of being many evil things, but I would not do this to all Mormons.
By what authority did they change the proper way to baptize?
Did the author of the Didache prefer his own wisdom to that of God's? Have you read the Didache in depth to conclude that? That would be a reading of the text which is incongruous with what it sets out to do, namely provide an orderly Christian practice for Churches where the New Testament doesn't provide any information. This is in the Orthodox view of things the tradition of the Church, handed down from one generation to the next orally because contrary to Mormon claims the Apostles didn't just up and leave the Church without anything to hold on to. They laid the foundation which the Church built upon.
He must have, for he took it upon himself to change the ordinance of baptism, where he had no authority to do so.
Why is this authors book not in the bible if this was God's real way. It is not, so I would suspect it was someones own wisdom, and the compilers of the bible took it that way too.
I guess the compilers of the bible in fact did not like the idea that the author took the right to add to the bible did not provide. But I guess that is OK to you?
Provide evidence of it being directly known. You can quote Paul and interpret him to mean proxy by Baptism but this is only proof of a Mormon interpretation. The lack of this practice anywhere within the historic Church indicates it didn't exist. We can contrast this to other practices of the Church which we do have evidence for, such as reading the Gospels on Sunday, Fasting before Baptism, sermons and Homilies being given on recited scriptures. These were
1 Corinthians 15:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Paul is asking these people why are they baptized for the dead.
So it is obvious that people were being baptized for the dead, and did not know why they were.
Paul says if the dead do not rise, why are you doing this?
Paul implies that if the dead do rise, which they do, it is OK to be baptized for the dead.
If you are going to accuse the latter Church of conspiracy to get rid of proxy baptism then demonstrate they knew about it to conspire against it. A difficult task I do not envy you in.
I just did, see 1 Corinthians 15:29 above. It is the only scripture in the bible that refers to baptism for the dead. But it demonstrates that some were obviously doing this practice.
You expect them to act like 21st century Mormons and that's where the fault in your understanding lies. Because they lack so many Mormon distinctive you automatically conclude corruption whereas the more obvious answer is that Mormon Practices and beliefs did not exist. For instance the Mormon Church of Jospeh Smith doesn't look like the Apostle's Church. Peter for instance didn't engage (to our knowledge) in polyamory or Polygamy. Paul encouraged people to be celibate. The Apostles did not gather in LDS style temples for worship. There were consecrated virgins in the Apostolic Church which the LDS never accepted.
I will challenge any church to step up to the plate and compare their church with the first century church in organization and doctrine, and see how close they resemble the original church in the first century. A difficult task for your church, I do not envy you in.
So I don't buy this claim that your modern LDS CHurch which doesn't even act like the LDS Church of Joseph Smith, actually resembles the Apostolic Church. It doesn't.
How would you know what the church in the day of JS acted like compared to how the church today acts. I have to correct you every time you post about what you think our church does or acts.
Pouring water over the head of someone unable to be immersed is legitimate. If they have the desire for Baptism and have proven they have faith then they can be baptized in such a manner because it is the only method available to them. Baptism
Quote me your fine authoritative words only from the bible and see how close you can come to your legitimate claims. A difficult task, I do not envy you in.
. He did abandon them, unless you want to tell me you believe everyone before Joseph Smith preferred their own wisdom to God's?
There were millions of people before JS that were good people that lived the law of Christ. It was primarily the leadership of the people that abandoned God for their thrones, with its independence from pesky apostles, and money, and power. The common people continued to call upon God and receive his wisdom for their own lives and the lives of their families. The leadership could not hear God because of their wickedness, and therefore God left them to their own wisdom and their own imaginations. It did not take long for 2 major schisms to hit the church like a thunderbolt and rocked it from its foundations. It only got worse from there, until in the 1500's the largest church in Christendom was split asunder by the reformers. Now, before the 1600's there were 15 different Christian churches all teaching different doctrines and applying the bible differently. What a mess.
Today, 3500 different Christian churches teaching a montage of Christian values and who God is, with no coherent leadership or direction. Good luck.
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