Abortion is wrong

redleghunter said:

Ever hear of not playing God and 'we all have a fighting chance?"

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Ever heard of being responsible with contraceptives and not making your life and the life of your neighbours a fight for survival ?

If you want to live in a third world country where people average 8 kids per family be my quest. Most would not choose that option. There is nothing godly about getting more kids than you are emotionally and financially able to care for.

People trust in God but still use seat belts right ? There is a thing called common sense.

Pedra said:

Thou shalt not commit murder --is not a religious teaching, it is a Commandment from God.

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Lots of interpretation with this one. What do you think burning heretics and "witches" was if not murder and nobody in priestly circles seemed to be to distraught over it.

Encouraging people to breed outside of their means of support and having people starve is not much sort of murder either.

SPF said:

I'm confused, do you think this would have happened to America were it not for the abortions that have occurred?

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No, it is more about using contraceptives. This was answer to previous post where uncontrolled breeding was seen as a part "God`s economy" and therefore a great thing with no brain power usage needed from humans.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Lots of interpretation with this one. What do you think burning heretics and "witches" was if not murder and nobody in priestly circles seemed to be to distraught over it.

Encouraging people to breed outside of their means of support and having people starve is not much sort of murder either.

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Really? witches?
...it's chilling what some people bring in as an argument to justify killing babies in the womb.

What’s wrong with witches?

Tropical Wilds said:

What’s wrong with witches?

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topic, topic, topic

SPF said:

Are you capable of contributing anything other than useless sarcasm that doesn’t promote constructive conversation?

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If you find my consistent pro life position uncomfortable, then my contribution appears effective.

parousia70 said:

I think we need a national pregnancy registry, or Department of Pregnancy, where every woman of child bearing age needs to present her menstrual tissue EVERY MONTH for examination for possible miscarriage, so every miscarriage can be documented, the fetal remains either buried or cremated, and the cause of the miscarriage can be determined and legal action taken if it is shown to have been influenced in any way by the behavior or actions of the mother.
Women can not be trusted to decide this for themselves.

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Indiana (ironically where I was born and not aborted), at least, has taken a bold step in this direction.
https://rewire.news/legislative-tracker/law/indiana-omnibus-abortion-bill-hb-1337/

parousia70 said:

If you find my consistent pro life position uncomfortable, then my contribution appears effective.

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I don't see anything consistent in what you've shared. I see fallacious and sarcastic reasoning that doesn't contribute to the conversation.

I've already demonstrated how the Kidney Donation Argument is fallacious, not to mention a watered down and not as good argument as the Violinist Argument (which also fails).

The right to life is a right not to be killed, not a right not to die. There is an important difference that you have failed to comprehend.

Also, in the same way that the government doesn't get involved in parents with regards to how they raise their children unless there is a clear threat to their health, it's not consistent to then think that the government should be intrusive into pregnant women's lives.

Your "consistent" position is something a freshman philosophy student could see through as fallacious and unsupportable.

The reality of the situation is that making the choice to actively kill an innocent human being who has done nothing wrong is immoral. Are you aware of the Catholic position on abortion? I guess you're fine saying that the Catholic position is wrong?

Fertilized eggs that naturally fail to implant and the choice to actively kill an already implanted, growing human being are very different events.

SPF said:

I don't see anything consistent in what you've shared. I see fallacious and sarcastic reasoning that doesn't contribute to the conversation.

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I understand that is what you are saying.

I've already demonstrated how the Kidney Donation Argument is fallacious, not to mention a watered down and not as good argument as the Violinist Argument (which also fails).

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I understand that is what you believe.

The right to life is a right not to be killed, not a right not to die. There is an important difference that you have failed to comprehend.

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Is there a difference between manslaughter and Murder?

If murder is wrong, does that mean manslaughter isn't?

Also, in the same way that the government doesn't get involved in parents with regards to how they raise their children unless there is a clear threat to their health, it's not consistent to then think that the government should be intrusive into pregnant women's lives.

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Again, as I have pointed out but you apparently missed, there are MANY behaviors a pregnant woman can undertake that present a clear and present danger to their unborn baby.

Government ABSOLUTELY should regulate that, by your very own standard.

Your "consistent" position is something a freshman philosophy student could see through as fallacious and unsupportable.

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If you find one, send them my way. Hopefully they can do a better Job than you have.

The reality of the situation is that making the choice to actively kill an innocent human being who has done nothing wrong is immoral. Are you aware of the Catholic position on abortion? I guess you're fine saying that the Catholic position is wrong?

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Its correct and I agree.
You have no seen my indicate otherwise.

In fact I don't believe it goes far enough, obviously.

Fertilized eggs that naturally fail to implant and the choice to actively kill an already implanted, growing human being are very different events.

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Again, let's stick with comparing Aborted PREGNANCIES with one another please.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Ever heard of being responsible with contraceptives and not making your life and the life of your neighbours a fight for survival ?

If you want to live in a third world country where people average 8 kids per family be my quest. Most would not choose that option. There is nothing godly about getting more kids than you are emotionally and financially able to care for.

People trust in God but still use seat belts right ? There is a thing called common sense.

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Once again the economy of the world vs the One from God.

Pedra said:

topic, topic, topic

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Sorry. As a pro-choice woman who is accused of being a witch pretty regularly, I wanted an idea of what all I was in Dutch for.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

As has been quite vividly demonstrated the women do not always have the option of choosing. There was just a thread how 16% or so of virginity losses are in the US are for rapes.

Added to that any cultural or economical pressure around the world and it is bit too simple to say that women really have the final choice.

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16%? Did that include statutory claims?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Lots of interpretation with this one. What do you think burning heretics and "witches" was if not murder and nobody in priestly circles seemed to be to distraught over it.

Encouraging people to breed outside of their means of support and having people starve is not much sort of murder either.

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Human beings procreating is not “breeding.” It’s actually people obeying God's command.

redleghunter said:

Human beings procreating is not “breeding.” It’s actually people obeying God's command.

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Actual term we should probably use is procreation. It even has nice creation slang to it. In practical terms and effects it is all semantics though.

Procreating more than your mental health, financials, environment and society can take is harmful, creating misery, pain and should be avoided.

If God had wanted us to have ten children on our lifetime he probably would have included that in His teachings somewhere.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Actual term we should probably use is procreation. It even has nice creation slang to it. In practical terms and effects it is all semantics though.

Procreating more than your mental health, financials, environment and society can take is harmful, creating misery, pain and should be avoided.

If God had wanted us to have ten children on our lifetime he probably would have included that in His teachings somewhere.

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Be fruitful and multiply and keep your quiver full come to mind.

Psalm 127:

Unless the LORD builds the house,

its builders labor in vain;

unless the LORD protects the city,

its watchmen stand guard in vain.

2In vain you rise early

and stay up late,

toiling for bread to eat—

for He gives sleep to His beloved.

3Children are indeed a heritage from the LORD,

and the fruit of the womb is His reward.

4Like arrows in the hand of a warrior,

so are children born in one’s youth.

5Blessed is the man

whose quiver is full of them.

He will not be put to shame

when he confronts the enemies at the gate.

Pedra said:

Really? witches?
...it's chilling what some people bring in as an argument to justify killing babies in the womb.

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The issue was mainly the word murder here. Saying that abortion of a fetus is murder is just one opinion. Actually one that is not supported by the criminal courts and the law nor in fact majority of the population.

You can kid yourself however much you want but would you really pay taxes for the government that allowed up 900.000 murders every year. Imagine government taking 900.000 people of the streets and putting them against the wall this year. Would you support it or oppose it ?

There would be a revolution pretty fast. Instead we have people arguing about it in these forums and not doing much else so clearly abortion do not hold same emotional trigger as something criminal courts define as murder.

redleghunter said:

Be fruitful and multiply and keep your quiver full come to mind.

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Yeah, but times change as does the size of our "quiver" needed. We do not have as many people dying to childbirths, diseases, wars and starvation as before so we can have the same effect with less and going over that is actually going against God`s intent.

Do we not also have the stewardship part toward the land ?

redleghunter said:

16%? Did that include statutory claims?

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Actually it was 1 in 16 so way less than 16% though even the right number is bad enough. The thread was

1/16 US women lose virginity to rape

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Actually it was 1 in 16 so way less than 16% though even the right number is bad enough. The thread was

1/16 US women lose virginity to rape

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The average age was 15 for the teen girl. Perpetrator was 5 years older. So in those cases in most states we are speaking of an automatic statutory rape even if consensual.

Is your argument that since rape happens the fetus is fair game to be terminated? Would that not be delivering an evil for an evil?