LDS How to Become a God

Phoebe Ann said:

Obedience to the false gods of Mormonism bars one from eternal life. We don't become sons and daughters prior to our adoption.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his...

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

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We received the Spirit of adoption not because of any obedience to ordinances, commandments, ladder climbing or doing the best we can do … but freely by grace through faith as God revealed:

He is the way said:

Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, Joseph is not His father. Yet we are all the spirit children of God our Father.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

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None of us are begotten of God which means we don’t have divinity nor can we claim it. Mormon theology really is confusing.

twin.spin said:

Another example of Mormonism's twisting of Scripture.

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We don't have to twist, it is right there in black and white. What does ALL YE ARE BRETHREN mean to you?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

twin.spin said:

We received the Spirit of adoption not because of any obedience to ordinances, commandments, ladder climbing or doing the best we can do … but freely by grace through faith as God revealed:

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Galatians 2:21
... for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
​

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Yes, those who love Jesus Christ are saved by grace. The Bible states who they are:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:17 - 19)

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

He is the way said:

We don't have to twist, it is right there in black and white. What does ALL YE ARE BRETHREN mean to you?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

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This is really funny, because verse 8 is making our point against Mormonism. None should be called Rabbi ("Lord", or more technically, "My Lord" -- RBB is a common Semitic root, so I don't even have to know Hebrew or Aramaic to know this, as it's the exact same in Arabic: رب rabb "Lord", ربي rabbi "My Lord") because Christ is our master, and so we are below Him.

If you want to somehow propose an equality with Christ, it would be in terms of humanity only, and this is exactly the sort of verse you should not choose to illustrate it.

He is the way said:

We don't have to twist, it is right there in black and white. What does ALL YE ARE BRETHREN mean to you?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

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What it means to all Christians. We are brothers in spirit, we are brothers in like mindedness, we are brothers for we are all human, we are brothers through the Humanity of Jesus we are brothers through adoption, with Jesus being the Only natural Son who needs no adoption---we are joint heirs WITH HIM.
IT DOES NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN THAT THE FATHER GAVE BIRTH TO US WITH SOME HEAVENLY MOTHER BEFORE WE WERE BORN AND WE ARE ALL HIS NATURAL CHILDREN!!

dzheremi said:

This is really funny, because verse 8 is making our point against Mormonism. None should be called Rabbi ("Lord", or more technically, "My Lord" -- RBB is a common Semitic root, so I don't even have to know Hebrew or Aramaic to know this, as it's the exact same in Arabic: رب rabb "Lord", ربي rabbi "My Lord") because Christ is our master, and so we are below Him.

If you want to somehow propose an equality with Christ, it would be in terms of humanity only, and this is exactly the sort of verse you should not choose to illustrate it.

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I did not say we are equal to Jesus Christ. However we are His brethren as He has stated in the Bible. Why do you not believe Him?:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(New Testament | Matthew 25:40)

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Angels are ministering spirits. Angels look like us and can talk.

Who says I don't believe Christ? Shame on you.

We are brethren in humanity, of course, as by the mystery of the incarnation He shares with us the one human nature, but the difference of course is that He has sanctified it, whereas we have not. It is through what He has done that we have hope in sanctification by following Him, so it's still a good analogy, this master/brethren relationship.

And Mormons are the ones who say that we will be divine as God is, so you do make yourselves equal to Christ by this doctrine, whereas the actual Christian will not admit any variation of Theosis that would put us as equal to God. We will never be God. That is insane.

He is the way said:

I did not say we are equal to Jesus Christ. However we are His brethren as He has stated in the Bible. Why do you not believe Him?:

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But you have said so in the past---you've said God made lucifer and Jesus and they are brothers and God made us through one of his wives and therefore we are all brothers. You have not said the truth of Jesus---He is the Creator, He created Lucifer, therefore He can not be Lucifer's brother, you have not said Jesus was always God with the Father before the incarnation and therefore were not His literal brothers. you maintain we are literal brothers to Jesus. and therefore equal and heirs. We say were have never been equal to Jesus except through His humanity and must be adopted by His Father for we are not His literal children. We will never be equal to Jesus in His divinity. And certainly never equal to God. We will be equal to angels.

mmksparbud said:

But you have said so in the past---you've said God made lucifer and Jesus and they are brothers and God made us through one of his wives and therefore we are all brothers. You have not said the truth of Jesus---He is the Creator, He created Lucifer, therefore He can not be Lucifer's brother, you have not said Jesus was always God with the Father before the incarnation and therefore were not His literal brothers. you maintain we are literal brothers to Jesus. and therefore equal and heirs. We say were have never been equal to Jesus except through His humanity and must be adopted by His Father for we are not His literal children. We will never be equal to Jesus in His divinity. And certainly never equal to God. We will be equal to angels.

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Jesus is not equal to the Father because He said:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

There are greater and lesser Gods. God the Father is the most High God:

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Jesus did not create Lucifer, God the Father is the Father of spirits.

twin.spin said:

That the context of 8-9 is that of a larger part of the warning of hypocrisy that Jesus was making against the scribes (who are the teachers of the law) and the Pharisees. Matthew 23:1-12

So in 8-10 Jesus is knocking them off their hypocrisy title pedestals by saying:

"you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, … do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah."​

The balance of Matthew 23 Jesus repeatedly denounces the teachers of the law (the scribes) and Pharisees as "hypocrites!" and "woe unto you".

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Thank you for your study.

The context, however, doesn't seem to change the statement. Do not call anyone on earth 'father', for you have one 'Father' and he is in heaven.

Jesus is talking about his Father, who is also our Father (John 20:17). How is God our Father. He is the Father of our spirits (Hebrews 12:9). Jesus says he is our only Father, so do not call anyone father on earth, because there is only 1 Father, which is in heaven.

This scripture is right on target to teach us who our real Father is.

twin.spin said:

We received the Spirit of adoption not because of any obedience to ordinances, commandments, ladder climbing or doing the best we can do … but freely by grace through faith as God revealed:

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Galatians 2:21
... for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
​

Click to expand...

In Romans, Paul says this:
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

In 1 Corinthians Paul says this:
1 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

What are the ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians that they were to keep?

Were these ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians part of the salvation process?

He is the way said:

Jesus is not equal to the Father because He said:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

There are greater and lesser Gods. God the Father is the most High God:

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Jesus did not create Lucifer, God the Father is the Father of spirits.

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Jesus created all things wither visible or invisible. The Father was greater in Jesus humanity, otherwise he is equal, we've already given that verse. The only other gods are false, not real gods, that also has been shown you---there are no other real Gods besides the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As for the Father of Spirits---

Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Again--
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Heb_11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

JESUS CREATED LUCIFER.

mmksparbud said:

Jesus created all things wither visible or invisible. The Father was greater in Jesus humanity, otherwise he is equal, we've already given that verse. The only other gods are false, not real gods, that also has been shown you---there are no other real Gods besides the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As for the Father of Spirits---

Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Again--
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Heb_11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

JESUS CREATED LUCIFER.

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Jesus did not create Lucifer:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

God the Father is the Father of spirits. He is the God and Father of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not the Father of spirits. Lucifer is a spirit. He does not have a body of flesh and bone. Like Jesus Christ we were all spirit children of God the Father before being born.

He is the way said:

Jesus did not create Lucifer:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

God the Father is the Father of spirits. He is the God and Father of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not the Father of spirits. Lucifer is a spirit. He does not have a body of flesh and bone. Like Jesus Christ we were all spirit children of God the Father before being born.

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Jesus did create Lucifer. You said it yourself.


Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I realize you have a problem with the world "all."---but it is very clear, Jesus is the creator of all.
all
[ôl]
PREDETERMINER

1. used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.
   "all the people I met" · "she left all her money to him" · "10 per cent of all cars sold" · "he slept all day" · "carry all of the blame" · "four bedrooms, all with balconies" · "the men are all bearded"
   synonyms:
   each of · each one of the · every one of the · every single one of the · every · each and every · every single · the whole of the · every bit of the · the complete · the entire · the totality of the · in its entirety · complete · entire · total · full · utter · perfect · all-out · greatest (possible) · maximum · everyone · everybody · each/every person · the (whole) lot · each one · each thing · the sum · the total · the whole lot · everything · every part · the whole amount · the total amount · the entirety · the sum total · the aggregate
   antonyms:
   no · none of the · little · none · nobody · nothing
   • any whatever.
     "he denied all knowledge" · "assured beyond all doubt"
   • used to emphasize the greatest possible amount of a quality.
     "they were in all probability completely unaware" · "with all due respect"
   • informal
     dominated by a particular feature or characteristic.
     "an eleven-year-old string bean, all elbows and knees"
   • the only thing (used for emphasis).
     "all I want is to be left alone"
   • (used to refer to surroundings or a situation in general) everything.
     "all was well" · "it was all very strange"
     synonyms:
     each one · each thing · the sum · the total · the whole lot
     antonyms:
     none
   • US
     dialect
     consumed; finished; gone.
     "the cake is all"

ADVERB

1. used for emphasis.
   • completely.
     "dressed all in black" · "she's been all around the world" · "all by himself"
     synonyms:
     completely · fully · entirely · totally · wholly · absolutely · utterly · outright · thoroughly · altogether · quite · in every respect · in all respects · without reservation · without exception
     antonyms:
     partly · not at all
   • consisting entirely of.
     "all leather varsity jacket"
2. (in games) used after a number to indicate an equal score.
   "after extra time it was still two all"

NOUN
alls (plural noun)

1. the whole of one's energy or interest.
   "giving their all for what they believed"

Peter1000 said:

In Romans, Paul says this:
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

In 1 Corinthians Paul says this:
1 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

What are the ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians that they were to keep?

Were these ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians part of the salvation process?

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1) What are the ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians that they were to keep?

ANSWER: To better understand what Paul meant that the KJV used (ordinances) is to use a reliable Greek concordance i.e. Strong's Concordance … which states specifically about "ordinances":

Original Word: παράδοσις, εως, ἡ
Transliteration: paradosis
Definition: a handing down or over, a tradition
Usage: an instruction, tradition.

Paul was not advocating what Mormonism presumes.
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2) Were these ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians part of the salvation process?

ANSWER: No. You've been shown multiple times that Biblical Christianity teaches that salvation from sin is free and full in Jesus.

We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Jesus not only paid the price for all sin, he also kept the law perfectly for us. Salvation is his gift to us.

twin.spin said:

1) What are the ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians that they were to keep?

ANSWER: To better understand what Paul meant that the KJV used (ordinances) is to use a reliable Greek concordance i.e. Strong's Concordance … which states specifically about "ordinances":

Original Word: παράδοσις, εως, ἡ
Transliteration: paradosis
Definition: a handing down or over, a tradition
Usage: an instruction, tradition.

Paul was not advocating what Mormonism presumes.
-------------------------------------------------------------

2) Were these ordinances that Paul gave the Corinthians part of the salvation process?

ANSWER: No. You've been shown multiple times that Biblical Christianity teaches that salvation from sin is free and full in Jesus.

We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Jesus not only paid the price for all sin, he also kept the law perfectly for us. Salvation is his gift to us.

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I believe that your definition for the word "ordinance" is not a full one. The third or fourth definition could be "what is handed down" or "traditions". But the most prevalent definition of the word "ordinance" is:
Ordinances. Like other Christian churches, Pentecostals believe that certain rituals or ceremonies were instituted as a pattern and command by Jesus in the New Testament.
OR
Ordinance is a term for religious rituals whose intent is to demonstrate an adherent's faith. Typical examples include baptism and communion, as practiced in the Christian traditions such as Anabaptists, all Baptist churches, Churches of Christ groups, and Pentecostal churches.

So the full definition would be religious rituals handed down from leaders of the faith for the intent to demonstrate an adherent's faith. Can also be a tradition of the church to do these things.

Which means that the fuller or first definition of the word "ordinance" is exactly what Mormons think. What were the "ordinances" that Paul handed down to the Corinthians?

But the word isn't "ordinance" in the first place. It's paradosis, which means tradition, not ordinance.

dzheremi said:

But the word isn't "ordinance" in the first place. It's paradosis, which means tradition, not ordinance.

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Then how did it show up in our English translation as ordinance? Were the translators not as bright as you?