Commandments Question

fwGod said:

God's will was to save mankind from the consequences of sin. That is what I posted about.

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God's will is we reject the self serving will that is us in favour of a more selfless nature. One can't love all as self if one is still thinking what's in this for me.

fwGod said:

I gave a scripture to indicate why the those in the new testament as well as majority of Christians throughout the church age have worshiped God on Sunday.

Your cute opinion is belittling the Bible. But, if you want to stand before God and be judged for such words, that's up to you.

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There is no commandment to forsake the 7th day and keep Sunday. It comes, purely, and simply, out of tradition. I don't care what you do... that is between you and God. But there is >>NOTHING<< in the bible that says to keep Sunday, nothing. And that should cause us to stop and ask, "Why?" If it isn't mentioned, even if that day is special to us, we have to determine where it came from and why.

I celebrate his resurrection, the day he rose... ON the day he rose... the Sunday morning after Passover, we call it Easter. There is no mandate to keep every Sunday, there is nothing saying to keep Sunday at all... save for Easter which is a holy day found in Lev. 23. It just wasn't called Easter at that point.

fwGod said:

Your cute opinion is belittling the Bible.

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No it is not. It is belittling a doctrine of man with no scriptural approval. I'll gladly stand before God and take credit for pointing out an example of man's will over His.

Ken Rank said:

There is no commandment to forsake the 7th day and keep Sunday.

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Yet those in the new testament gathered and met on the first day of the week. Therefore you require an official commandment from the mouth of God where there doesn't need to be one.

Ken Rank said:

It comes, purely, and simply, out of tradition.

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Is there a commandment given that non kosher foods can be eaten? No. Yet the apostle Paul stated (not by commandment) that all things, foods are permissible.

So also he wrote "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

Ken Rank said:

I don't care what you do... that is between you and God. But there is >>NOTHING<< in the bible that says to keep Sunday, nothing.

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The fact that Jesus arose on the first day of the week, and example of the new testament believers is the reason.

Since you are demanding an official commandment then you are demanding the letter of the law which results in bondage, and therefore has actually been abolished and grace has taken it's place.

But you don't keep grace.

Ken Rank said:

And that should cause us to stop and ask, "Why?" If it isn't mentioned, even if that day is special to us, we have to determine where it came from and why.

I celebrate his resurrection, the day he rose... ON the day he rose... the Sunday morning after Passover, we call it Easter. There is no mandate to keep every Sunday, there is nothing saying to keep Sunday at all... save for Easter which is a holy day found in Lev. 23. It just wasn't called Easter at that point.

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It makes no sense to only go to church on Sunday for Easter, then the rest of the year go to church on Saturday.

When He was raised from physical death, we were raised up from spiritual death. So why should we live one day of the year as a spiritually alive person and the rest of the year like a spiritually dead person?

fwGod said:

I gave a scripture to indicate why the those in the new testament as well as majority of Christians throughout the church age have worshiped God on Sunday.

Your cute opinion is belittling the Bible. But, if you want to stand before God and be judged for such words, that's up to you.

Click to expand...

Ken Rank said:

There is no commandment to forsake the 7th day and keep Sunday. It comes, purely, and simply, out of tradition. I don't care what you do... that is between you and God. But there is >>NOTHING<< in the bible that says to keep Sunday, nothing. And that should cause us to stop and ask, "Why?" If it isn't mentioned, even if that day is special to us, we have to determine where it came from and why.

I celebrate his resurrection, the day he rose... ON the day he rose... the Sunday morning after Passover, we call it Easter. There is no mandate to keep every Sunday, there is nothing saying to keep Sunday at all... save for Easter which is a holy day found in Lev. 23. It just wasn't called Easter at that point.

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There is no commandment to forsake (abandon) the 7th day and keep Sunday. It comes, purely, and simply, out of tradition.

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True ... sunday keeping comes out of a tradition, but not from the tradition that Jesus and the apostles taught. Jesus and the apostles kept the 7th day sabbath.

Traditions

2 Thessalonians 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

1 Corinthians 11:1-2
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

Jesus and the apostles tradition was to keep the 7th day Sabbath. (ie taught by them) by their example.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps

His steps include keeping the 7th day sabbath ... just as He did.

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Keep ... meaning it was already in existence, even before mount Sinai. Therefore referring to the 7th day He created it in Genesis.

Follow the Lamb! in everything.

fwGod said:

When He was raised from physical death, we were raised up from spiritual death. So why should we live one day of the year as a spiritually alive person and the rest of the year like a spiritually dead person?

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Why did God delegate certain days of the year for festivals? Did they celebrate Passover year round on the day it occurred?

fwGod said:

Yet those in the new testament gathered and met on the first day of the week. Therefore you require an official commandment from the mouth of God where there doesn't need to be one.

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They also met on 2nd day, 3rd day, 4th day, 5th day, 6th day, and sabbath.

fwGod said:

It makes no sense to only go to church on Sunday for Easter, then the rest of the year go to church on Saturday.

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A lot of things like that, and not like that, "makes no sense" until the truth is known, perhaps more of the experience of the Hebrew people, which is unknown to most readers and most posters today. Seek, and keep Seeking, and God's Promise is you will find (the truth).

Michael Vichiola said:

What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case?

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This is a hot topic so you will get quite a few of responses as some are Torah observant and some are not. That being said, one must first understand what it means to be Torah observant. Here they are Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) This is the LAW. Once you have read through them carefully, you can begin to see that the very fabric of the Law begins to unravel. Why? Because Jesus Christ of Nazareth fulfilled all of the ceremonial laws. Then He started a new covenant with His people that was shaped differently, it was and still is "in the heart"LOVE. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said "you must exceed that of the Pharisees" in order to be found in full righteousness with the Law.

We are right with the Father through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth and not the Law of Moses, the 613 Mitzvot.
Blessings

Michael Vichiola said:

Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

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The Sabbath precedes the Mosaic Law.

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." - Genesis 2:2-3

So even though it was incorporated within the Mosaic Law, it is a moral statute throughout all generations since the creation.

Dave-W said:

One thing Michael: there is no such division of "ceremonial law," "civil law," or " moral law." It is only the law and James says if you break it in one point you break it in all points.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

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Jesus preached that God worked seven days a week. The religious authorities were upset he was healing on Shabaht/Sabbath. In the Bible the followers of Moses stoned someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. If I shop on the seventh day - Saturday, it does not make me guilty of adultery. I am celibate. The law is not perfect.

If the law says, “Thou shall not murder,” I can not disobey. If it says I should do no work on the Day of Atonement, I do not know when that is. I worked right through that day. If the law wants me to pay a tithe to a Levite, I can not find one. I would not want to pay Benny Hinn either.

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,”Deuteronomy 21:23 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.


Anyone know the meaning of this parable, and also why is there no mention of law in it?

Why does he use feeding the hungry, inviting strangers in, ect as an example, when these things are not required by the 10 commandments / law.

Michael Vichiola said:

Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

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I hate to answer your question with questions, but this is appropriate:

Where did the Word of God (aka "Jesus") actually say any part of the Law is taken away, null, void or inert?

You believe the Word of God Himself, not Paul, is the authority on the Law?

Do you believe the Word of God Himself would make known any changes and nullification of the Law know to us in clear detail (like all other Law)?

You have to make a choice on who you follow: the Word of God, or [the interpretation of] men. This is the crux of your faith-walk - that you can trust the Living Word of God over all men, and that you know His voice (expectations) such that you don't even need another person to tell you what He expects.

In fact, the New Covenant does not take any law away; in Jeremiah, the New Covenant is simply a promise of a Redeemer, and a promise that we will no longer need text to know the Most High God - that His Law will be written on our hearts (quite literally) such that we won't have to ask our neighbor who the Most High God is.

dqhall said:

Jesus preached that God worked seven days a week. The religious authorities were upset he was healing on Shabaht/Sabbath. In the Bible the followers of Moses stoned someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. If I shop on the seventh day - Saturday, it does not make me guilty of adultery. I am celibate. The law is not perfect.

If the law says, “Thou shall not murder,” I can not disobey. If it says I should do no work on the Day of Atonement, I do not know when that is. I worked right through that day. If the law wants me to pay a tithe to a Levite, I can not find one. I would not want to pay Benny Hinn either.

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,”Deuteronomy 21:23 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

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The Hebrews didn't understand the juxtaposition between mercy and execution of judgment; that is why (for example) the Word of God had to show them an example - namely with the woman to be stoned. Everyone will be judged; no law has been done away with. The point of the Law is to bring correction while one can still be corrected; once the new bodies are given, you will be complete, and the Law will be hard-wired into you. The Law was so perfect that the Word of God Himself followed it perfectly - vindicating the Most High God, and the fact that His Law is not too hard for man.

Chris35 said:

Anyone know the meaning of this parable, and also why is there no mention of law in it?

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The parable shows the law in action, putting the will of God before the will of man, servitude over self.

timothyu said:

The parable shows the law in action, putting the will of God before the will of man, servitude over self.

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And what is the will of God?

Chris35 said:

And what is the will of God?

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I just told you. Or you can think of it as opposite to the self serving, self justifying will of man.

Knowing God Through Love
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.


Seeing God Through Love
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.



The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love [c]Him because He first loved us.

Nothing to do with law, all to do with love. Although the law is a way to check weither your walking in love.

I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.


Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Walk in love, simple as that. Do that and you will fulfill the law, you will feed the hungry, invite the stranger in.

Seek to understand and know God through love, seek to walk in his love daily and the law will be fullfiled through love and much more.

Like timothyu says, you cant love others, if you keep putting yourself first.

You should be seeking to walk in love. Not seeking to fulfill the law, but seeking that love is perfected in you, and the rest will fall into place.

Michael Vichiola said:

Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

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God is love 1John4:16 We are told to love God with all of our heart and one another. Christ, the anointed said all of the rest of the law falls under these, paraphrased. Then we are to incline our ear, listen to the Father's guidance testing all whether it be of love. We also must have faith that you are attached to the vine and in faith act accordingly. No fear, only faith! We are told the kingdom is within, the word is nigh, even in your heart and in your mouth so that ye may do it. Then we become doers of the word. We are living in a righteous spiritual system where it is done unto you as you believe, Jesus tells us over and over again. This puts us walking with God/Christ in the driver's seat. With this knowledge and understanding we become overcomers of the world. Calamity or problems will arise but with God all things are possible! Our response must be in faith, not fear, for fear is only negative faith. The new law is love and faith. If you are loving and listening, walking in faith all will be well. This is righteous living, being in right standing with God!

Michael Vichiola said:

Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

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To really understand the journey we must go back to the beginning and apply to it what we know. Paul says it is impossible to know not just what sin is he picks a biggie to use as His example, coveting. One of the top ten. Also the one that Satan found Eve engaged. Satan does something that would seem as a small quirky thing and Satan has blinded us to the truth. What does Satan do? He reminded Eve of the Law the Lord had given her. Wasn’t Satan worried that it would be a deterrent? Satan knew that he had the chance to separate God from Man, the Law. When Satan convinced Eve that you could just interpret it in this manner he opens the door for Law to do the very things God designed it to do. First, it defined sin as sin and condemned the guilty.The Law also opened the door for sin to become ‘utterly sinful” and Adam and Eve now we’re condemned by the Law. Look at what the Law, just one Law, don’t eat produced. But it gets worse. Condemned by the Law they fled from God and began the works movement. Satan must have been beside himself with joy everything happened just as he knew it would he had the wedge to cause men and God to be separated from each other. Satan did not know all of God’s plan.

Satan didn’t know that The Lord had just allowed Satan to cause the fulfillment of the prophecy first spoken in the Garden and He has striking the Lord’s heel which was about to crush satan’s head. all this took place without the Lord interfering with their free will, amazing. The other thing designed by God Satan had no idea of Grace and for some it’s the smell of death and for others the smell of life. The Good Shepherd came to find and rescue the lost sheep Satan had slain.. the Good Shepherd called His sheep (Jn. 10). His sheep heard His voice recognizing their Shepherd they came to Him. In shadow form the Lord showed how the Good Shepherd would lay down His life for His sheep saving them with the Innocent dying . Covering their sin we are told those who ‘dying they would die speaking of both their spiritual death and their afterwards physical death. With Man now under Law Satan would almost be able to let men do all the work for him. Law would do all that the Lord designed it to do. It revealed sin, open the way for sin to become utterly sinful and to lead back fallen men to their one and only Savior who would come and fulfilled it He removed it completely nailing it to the very tree He was being crucified on. When Law did what the Lord was designed to do, leading men to the Lord as their Savior the Law was at an End replaced by the Royal Law of Love which not only fulfilles the entire written Law but has the one thing the written Law was unable to supply a man of flesh the ability to live the life demanded by the power to do so.

13 And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, [I say], did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; 14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col. 2

here is the alpha and the omega I forgot to add to the original text. Not only completely forgiven, not only did the Lord blot out the written Law of Moses the Lord ended what had begun in the Garden of Eden when Satan deceived Eve into placing herself and then Adam under what would be called the Law of Moses. The Lord disarmed the powers of darkness. What were the powers of darkness armed with? The written Law and in doing so the Lord triumphed over them humiliating. To return to the Law of Moses is to deny Christ His victory and to rearm the One the Christ disarmed and all his minions as well.

Why would Satan want man under Law? I Cor. 15: 55-6 tells us the Holy, perfect and righteous Law is what sin uses for power. Power to do what to become utterly sinful and then all Satan has to do is sit back and watch as men continue to place in the gas tank of sin the one and only source of power it has Law to make it become a raging beast from sin being more like a hibernating beast without its fuel. Titus 2 the purpose of Law and the purpose of Grace in the age when we are looking for His Return. To really understand the journey we must go back to the beginning and apply to it what we know. Paul says it is impossible to know not just what sin is he picks a biggie to use as His example, coveting. One of the top ten. Also the one that Satan found Eve engaged. Satan does something that would seem as a small quirky thing and Satan has blinded us to the truth. What does Satan do? He reminded Eve of the Law the Lord had given her. Wasn’t Satan worried that it would be a deterrent? Satan knew that he had the chance to separate God from Man, the Law. When Satan convinced Eve that you could just interpret it in this manner he opens the door for Law to do the very things God designed it to do. First, it defined sin as sin and condemned the guilty.The Law also opened the door for sin to become ‘utterly sinful” and Adam and Eve now we’re condemned by the Law. Look at what the Law, just one Law, don’t eat produced. But it gets worse. Condemned by the Law they fled from God and began the works movement. Satan must have been beside himself with joy everything happened just as he knew it would he had the wedge to cause men and God to be separated from each other. Satan did not know all of God’s plan.

Satan didn’t know that The Lord had just allowed Satan to cause the fulfillment of the prophecy first spoken in the Garden and He has striking the Lord’s heel which was about to crush satan’s head.all this took place without the Lord interfering with their free will, amazing. The other thing designed by God Satan had no idea of Grace and for some it’s the smell of death and for others the smell of life. The Good Shepherd came to find and rescue the lost sheep Satan had slain.. the Good Shepherd called His sheep (Jn. 10). His sheep heard His voice recognizing their Shepherd they came to Him. In shadow form the Lord showed how the Good Shepherd would lay down His life for His sheep saving them with the Innocent dying . Covering their sin we are told those who ‘dying they would die speaking of both their spiritual death and their afterwards physical death. With Man now under Law Satan would almost be able to let men do all the work for him. Law would do all that the Lord designed it to do. It revealed sin, open the way for sin to become utterly sinful and to lead back fallen men to their one and only Savior who would come and fulfilled it He removed it completely nailing it to the very tree He was being crucified on. When Law did what the Lord was designed to do, leading men to the Lord as their Savior the Law was at an End replaced by the Royal Law of Love which not only fulfilles the entire written Law but has the one thing the written Law was unable to supply a man of flesh the ability to live the life demanded by the power to do so.

If you want to live under the Written Law you must climb up His cross and be the first to open what He has closed. The Lord spoke it from His cross knowing He had nailed it to His cross, the place of death, “It is finished.” The Lord lived the life anyone whom seeks to live the Law perfectly until every part of it was perfectly with not any miss on any point you fail at it all. Thanks great stuff this is real meat