Our God The Consuming Fire

mkgal1 said:

Is this a jab at the image in my avatar?

This illustration isn't suggesting that Mary will crush the head of the serpent (notice that she is pregnant with the Lord?).

The illustration is titled
Virgin Mary and Eve
Crayon & pencil drawing by Sr Grace Remington, OCSO
© 2005, Sisters of the Mississippi Abbey. Mary Comforts Eve - Illustrated Prayer

When people have contempt for the beliefs of others (as some do towards liturgical churches) there is much beauty and mystery from the Scriptures that's rejected out of that contempt.

This is Mary comforting Eve. This is the prayer that goes along with the illustration:


O Eve!

My mother, my daughter, life-giving Eve,
Do not be ashamed, do not grieve.
The former things have passed away,
Our God has brought us to a New Day.
See, I am with Child,
Through whom all will be reconciled.
O Eve! My sister, my friend,
We will rejoice together
Forever
Life without end.

Monastery Candy :: Detail

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I think your avatar is fantastic! I may order a print of that. Theotokos.

mkgal1 said:

Artwork is a lot like the Bible - it's not black and white.....it's not concrete.....it's complex and layered (as someone already posted, I believe it may have been Laz, the Bible is more like the ocean).

Most of the Old Testament is ancient Hebrew poetry......and if a person doesn't have a basic understanding of the Old Testament....then they will arrive at a different conclusion in reading the New Testament.

IOW....there's much more to this illustration that just "Mary stepping on the snakes head".

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Ah , but the Bible is black and white.
Everyone is not correct in their views.
There is only ONE correct teaching and that is what GOD speaks through HIS unadulterated Word.
The fact that some cherry-pick or refuse to hear it --is their error and will be unfortunately THEIR LOSS.

My concern is that others that read on these forums will fall prey to these false gospels & false teachings and be lead away from the Truth & away from salvation for their souls.

Actually as for the OT. --the whole Bible is about the Lord Jesus Christ & was revealing His coming as the Savior.

Pedra said:

My concern is that others that read on these forums will fall prey to these false gospels & false teachings and be lead away from the Truth & away from salvation for their souls.

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True. The internet is NOT a source of truth, not to be trusted until something is proven with two or more Godly witnesses to be truth. (in line with all His Word)

mkgal1 said:

Artwork is a lot like the Bible - it's not black and white.....it's not concrete.....it's complex and layered (as someone already posted, I believe it may have been Laz, the Bible is more like the ocean).

Most of the Old Testament is ancient Hebrew poetry......and if a person doesn't have a basic understanding of the Old Testament....then they will arrive at a different conclusion in reading the New Testament.

IOW....there's much more to this illustration that just "Mary stepping on the snakes head".

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I suppose next they will call Eastern Orthodox Church satanic because they use Iconography........
TAW Iconographers

ikonographics said:

As others seem to think the idea of a thread where TAW iconographers can post their icons is a good idea, I figured I might as well set the ball rolling....

St Seraphim of Sarov (15x20cm)

Holy Seraphim intercede for us!

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Or perhaps they will consider the drawing of the Serpent, Scroll and Salvation below as of the Devil.........

LittleLambofJesus said:

Correctomundo. Of course it was thru Mary that Jesus was born.

The Picture at bottom of post says it all...........

Matthew 23:33
“Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the judging of the GEHENNA<1067>?

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with age-abiding<aionios 166> destruction<3639> from Face<4383> of the LORD, and from the glory of His power;

The Face of the Serpent:

Revelation 12:14
and there were given to the woman two wings of the great eagle, that she may fly to the wilderness, to her place, where she is nourished a time, and times, and half a time, from face of the serpent;

Face of One sitting upon the throne:
Revel 6:16 and Rev 20:11 appear to be the same event.
One looking up from the land and the other looking down from heaven? Will study more on that........

Revelation 6:16
And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks:
'Be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face<4383> of the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lambkin

Revelation 20:11
I saw a great white throne.
And the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) on it, from Who's Face<4383> fled the Land and the Heaven
and Place<5117> not was found to-them.
========================
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out/exaleiyaV <1813> the against us handwriting to the decrees/dogmasin <1378> which was hostile to us, and has taken away out of the midst,
nailing it to the /Cross/stake/stauros.

Revelation 21:4
And He shall be wiping-away/exaleiyei <1813> every tear out of their eyes,
and the death not shall be still, neither mourning neither clamor neither misery, not it shall be still,
that the former things pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).
======================
You can barely see the head of the snake under His feet............

Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation
May 28, 2008

............................

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Jesus was called beelzebub.

mkgal1 said:

No.....I did NOT ever write that. I was pointing out that, by you attempting to use the parable of the sheep and the goats as a story about how God treats people after life, you run into a problem, because the parable is actually about how nations treat others during their lives. It's not about how God treats people after they have died a physical death.

Men Who Stare at (Sheep) and Goats: Is This Judgment Past? — A New Day Dawning

From the link above:
Jesus begins this sermon called the Olivet discourse in chapter 23 where he scolds the religious leaders as the Great Prophet and predicts their demise for murdering the saints, and thereby, he says, incurring the self-inflicted wrath of Rome.

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mkgal1 said:

If you're going to argue that Matthew 25:46 is about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell - then you're going to have to follow Jesus' words about how one achieves "eternal life'.

The verses just preceding v. 26 say this:Matthew 25:43 -4543 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

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You here are promoting a "WORKS GOSPEL" In red is your claim is this is what Jesus says about "how one achieves "ETERNAL LIFE" .

You are either very forgetful or disingenuous in your denials.

Pedra said:

Ah , but the Bible is black and white.

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It's clear you believe that.

Pedra said:

Everyone is not correct in their views.

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I won't argue with you on that.

Pedra said:

Actually as for the OT. --the whole Bible is about the Lord Jesus Christ & was revealing His coming as the Savior.

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.....nor do I disagree with you, here, either. However.....some view Him instead as a "potential" Savior instead.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I suppose next they will call Eastern Orthodox Church satanic because they use Iconography........
TAW Iconographers

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That's the subtle inference.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Or perhaps they will consider the drawing of the Serpent, Scroll and Salvation below as of the Devil.........

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Probably.

mkgal1 said:

However.....some view Him instead as a "potential" Savior instead.

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Did anyone say otherwise ?

mkgal1 said:

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I suppose next they will call Eastern Orthodox Church satanic because they use Iconography........
TAW Iconographers

Click to expand...

That's the subtle inference.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Or perhaps they will consider the drawing of the Serpent, Scroll and Salvation below as of the Devil.........

Click to expand...

Probably.

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So what was the topic again? Oh:

Our God The Consuming Fire

mkgal1 said:

It's clear you believe that.

I won't argue with you on that.


.....nor do I disagree with you, here, either. However.....some view Him instead as a "potential" Savior instead.

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You deny what the scripture teaches in favor of your own human beliefs.
Frankly , you have not even been able to present the true Gospel according to the scriptures..
You've said everyone is saved regardless of what is in the scriptures , & that is not what Jesus said.
You quoted Matt 24:43 to state that by feeding the poor etc... that is the way Jesus said people would achieve eternal life. I directly quoted your post.
But that is not correct & that would be called a "works based gospel." i.e. human good deeds earns people heaven and that is not what the Bible says.
In fact , the bible says "our righteousness are like dirty rags" to the Holy God. Isaiah 64:6
Apostle Paul says: Ephesians 2:8 "8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 NOT by Works , so that No one can boast."

Pedra said:

You here are promoting a "WORKS GOSPEL" In red is your claim is this is what Jesus says about "how one achieves "ETERNAL LIFE" .

You are either very forgetful or disingenuous in your denials.

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No......that's not what I'm promoting.

Notice that I set up an "if you are going to do this"....."then you have to do that" scenario - because it ALL goes together. The Olivet discourse is one continual message that Jesus gave. He was making ONE point. Read in context.....this is the main message He was giving: He scolds the religious leaders as the Great Prophet and predicts their demise for murdering the saints, and thereby, He says, incurring the self-inflicted wrath of Rome.

And guess what? He was right about their demise. Their punishment WAS everlasting. The religious kingdom as taken from them - and will never be given back to them as He is the High Priest now. He is the rightful King sitting on the throne of David (as prophesied).

A consuming fire.

It burns up the chaff, the wicked, the evil ones, and all that is temporal/ perishable.

Those who burn up in the lake of fire are destroyed according to Scripture; they don't receive eternal life.

Pedra said:

You quoted Matt 25:43 to state that by feeding the poor etc... that is the way Jesus said people would achieve eternal life. I directly quoted your post.

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Nope. You're struggling to understand my point - but that is not what I was using Matthew 25:43 for.

You were attempting to use that passage (Matt 25:46) as support for God punishing people forever after they die if they hadn't "believed in Him" prior to their death. But....you can't have it both ways. The distinction made between the two groups is based on how they teat others during their life. The parable was not about believing in Jesus. One has to maintain consistency when reading Jesus' parables.

Men Who Stare at (Sheep) and Goats: Is This Judgment Past? — A New Day Dawning

mkgal1 said:

No......that's not what I'm promoting.

Notice that I set up an "if you are going to do this"....."then you have to do that" scenario - because it ALL goes together. The Olivet discourse is one continual message that Jesus gave. He was making ONE point. Read in context.....this is the main message He was giving: He scolds the religious leaders as the Great Prophet and predicts their demise for murdering the saints, and thereby, He says, incurring the self-inflicted wrath of Rome.

And guess what? He was right about their demise. Their punishment WAS everlasting. The religious kingdom as taken from them - and will never be given back to them as He is the High Priest now. He is the rightful King sitting on the throne of David (as prophesied).

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I notice this---your comments are totally disingenuous.

mkgal1 said:

Nope. You're struggling to understand my point - but that is not what I was using Matthew 24:43 for.

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Lol! I am not struggling at all.
You promote a false gospel, & have been confronted with the words of Jesus, but you ignore them.
Seems you really don't even know what the Bible states about the Gospel,
or it's irrelevant to you.

Pedra said:

I notice this---your comments are totally disingenuous.

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Predra said:

Lol! I am not struggling at all.
You promote a false gospel, & have been confronted with the words of Jesus, but you ignore them.
Seems you really don't even know what the Bible states about the Gospel,
or it's irrelevant to you.

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Resorting to only insults is not much of a support for your assertions.

Pedra said:

You would be better off examining expository teaching which which examines the bible comprehensively in context, verse by verse so you are not ignorant of the meaning of scriptures & lead astray by someone who sounds spiritual. Those who remain ignorant of the scriptures can be easily lead away by false teachers.

What is expository preaching? | GotQuestions.org

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Let's see...expository teaching by teachers who were trained in a seminary by others who were trained in a seminary, and on and on. Scholarly Jews back in the early first century might have said something similar.

Pedra said:

In fact , the bible says "our righteousness are like dirty rags" to the Holy God. Isaiah 64:6
Apostle Paul says: Ephesians 2:8 "8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 NOT by Works , so that No one can boast."

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This is all true and makes an excellent point.

However.....if we make it about "those who make the 'right' choice" win salvation....and those that make a bad decision lose and are punished and tormented for all eternity.....isn't that about their deeds? Their choices? And NOT God's grace?

Isn't it boasting to believe "I made the 'right' choice"?

mkgal1 said:

Resorting to only insults is not much of a support for your assertions.

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No , because you don't admit what you've said. It's getting quite tiresome.
so no point in any further dialogue with you as I said before.
You stated previously "feeding the poor etc...was the way to eternal life" as Jesus taught. Well, no that scripture was not about eternal life , but when your errors are pointed out you just dance over them and claim you didn't say that way. So that is not an honest conversation where I come from.