Abortion is wrong

If it makes you feel better, that isn’t “what’s going on.” Yes, some people are about hooking up, but by and large most people still date especially when marriage is the endgame.

The showing up to a party for video games and ‘doing a hookup’ narrative is more what detached moralists claim their dirty, unwashed, inferiors do.

parousia70 said:

1/2-2/3 of all fertilized human embryos, when left alone, never result in a live birth.

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What exactly is this statement supposed to convey in terms of principles and meaning? Do you believe that because a number of fertilized embryos "naturally" do not make it to birth that they are somehow less than human, or somehow less morally valuable than born children? What exactly is the point in making this statement? What belief does this point you towards?

SPF said:

What exactly is the point in making this statement? What belief does this point you towards?

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Spontaneous Abortion is by far the single largest Killer of unborn Babies.

Not a belief, just a fact.

PS, If I require one of your Kidneys, You should be required by law to give it to me, no?

parousia70 said:

Spontaneous Abortion is by far the single largest Killer of unborn Babies.

Not a belief, just a fact.

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Is there a reason you avoided the question? It doesn't encourage healthy dialogue. What is the point of providing those statistics? What should I take away from that? Does it somehow mean that abortion is not morally wrong? I don't get the point of providing the statistic.

Aussie Pete said:

I note that not one proponent of abortion has suffered the procedure themselves.

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Totally false. Show me how it is possible for many women to never regret having their own abortions, yet at the same time be pro-lifers.

Heart2Soul said:

Contraceptives are indeed a responsible choice to include in your decision to fornicate. At least it lowers the chance of a woman getting pregnant. Still the best decision is to wait until you are married.

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The keyword is lowers. Because contraception does not always prevent a woman from getting pregnant it is important to note that even if you are married, you should never have sex until you want to have kids.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So you would prefer we live poor, without healthcare, short lives, insufficient food, living eight people a room and wondering where we are going to scrounge next days living while the women destroy their health with repeatedly giving births like in Pakistani borderlands ?

You call that God`s economy ? What is so great about suffering ?

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Ever hear of not playing God and 'we all have a fighting chance?"

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Ever wonder why God did not give women an option of choosing when to be fertile and when not to so we would not have this problem ?

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God gave women the option of choosing when to have sex so that we would not have this problem. Last I checked, women have brains too.

SPF said:

Is there a reason you avoided the question? It doesn't encourage healthy dialogue. What is the point of providing those statistics? What should I take away from that? Does it somehow mean that abortion is not morally wrong? I don't get the point of providing the statistic.

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If we are to make the claim that we are genuinely concerned about the number of fertilized embryos that are aborted, willful disregard of the fact that spontaneous abortions far outnumber surgical or chemical abortions weakens the claim of "concern", and only highlights the hypocrisy of those making the claim.

Especially when one claims that preventing abortion should be codified in LAW, yet does not believe such laws should be extended to mitigate spontaneous abortions, the LARGEST killer of unborn babies.

I'm arguing for CONSISTENCY in the pro life position, even extending to requiring mandatory organ donation for those already born, since the pro life position is already arguing for the mandatory use of one persons organs by another.

Inconsistency is the Pro life position's Achilles heel.
I'm merely attempting to eliminate the chink in the armor.

parousia70 said:

If we are to make the claim that we are genuinely concerned about the number of fertilized embryos that are aborted, willful disregard of the fact that spontaneous abortions far outnumber surgical or chemical abortions weakens the claim of "concern", and only highlights the hypocrisy of those making the claim.

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You don't distinguish a distinction between the natural failure for an egg to implant and the intentional killing of an implanted, healthy, growing human being?

parousia70 said:

If we are to make the claim that we are genuinely concerned about the number of fertilized embryos that are aborted, willful disregard of the fact that spontaneous abortions far outnumber surgical or chemical abortions weakens the claim of "concern", and only highlights the hypocrisy of those making the claim.

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This would be analogous to you getting upset at The American Kidney Foundation for being hypocritical because they are not doing research into preventing heart disease because heart disease kills more people than Kidney failure.

The reality though is that both are important and both are valuable, but supporting one does not mean that they don't care about the other.

grasping the after wind said:

She has the choice of saying no. If someone then rapes her it is not because God did not make it impossible for women to get pregnant. Blaming God for the evil of men is unjust.

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Rape is defined as a man having sex with a woman who told him no, correct? The choice to say no would, therefore, not be abortion avoidance.

parousia70 said:

By the way, if I require a kidney to survive, and you are a donor match, You should be forced to give me one of yours.

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parousia70 said:

PS, If I require one of your Kidneys, You should be required by law to give it to me, no?

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I was waiting to deal with this fallacious line of reasoning until we worked through the previous fallacious line of reasoning, but I may as well address it now as I have a few minute before heading home.

The kidney story is a weak and less persuasive version of the Violinist Argument, and it fails. Here's what some of our smart upcoming generation at Stanford had to say concerning the Kidney transplant story:

The Kidney Story fails adequately to represent the case of abortion. If having one’s kidney inside another person is analogous to being pregnant (as the story implies), then donating the kidney is analogous to becoming pregnant. Thus, all it proves is that the government should not forcibly impregnate anyone—an assertion with which everyone agrees.

However, we can go a step further and clarify that what you have with regards to the right to life is more specifically the right not to be killed, not the right not to die. There is an important distinction there which you are failing to recognize.

SPF said:

This would be analogous to you getting upset at The American Kidney Foundation for being hypocritical because they are not doing research into preventing heart disease because heart disease kills more people than Kidney failure.

The reality though is that both are important and both are valuable, but supporting one does not mean that they don't care about the other.

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Failed analogy.

Kidneys are not hearts.

Abortions are Abortions.

SPF said:

You don't distinguish a distinction between the natural failure for an egg to implant and the intentional killing of an implanted, healthy, growing human being?

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You do realize failure of an egg to implant is NOT an aborted Pregnancy, correct?

An egg has to implant FIRST, for it to be a pregnancy.

But there are many many things humans can do to minimize the chances of spontaneous abortions... proper diet, proper exercise, proper bed rest, proper BMI index for the mother, limited or complete absence of exposure to toxins or dangerous situations like walking on ice, skydiving, travelling to countries with Malaria, Zika Virus, etc....

How much of these do you propose government should regulate by law?

Should It be illegal for a Pregnant American Woman to visit a country that has mosquitoes that carry the Zika Virus?

If not why not?
Does the mother's freedom to travel supersede the Fetus' right to life?

Is the life of the fetus not really valuable enough to mandate such behavior of the Mother while she is carrying it?

parousia70 said:

You do realize failure of an egg to implant is NOT an aborted Pregnancy, correct?

An egg has to implant FIRST, for it to be a pregnancy.

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Four pages in and we *finally* have a medical fact consistent with a fundamental knowledge of biology and reproduction. It was looking pretty dire there for awhile.

I think we need a national pregnancy registry, or Department of Pregnancy, where every woman of child bearing age needs to present her menstrual tissue EVERY MONTH for examination for possible miscarriage, so every miscarriage can be documented, the fetal remains either buried or cremated, and the cause of the miscarriage can be determined and legal action taken if it is shown to have been influenced in any way by the behavior or actions of the mother.
Women can not be trusted to decide this for themselves.

parousia70 said:

I think we need a national pregnancy registry, or Department of Pregnancy, where every woman of child bearing age needs to present her menstrual tissue EVERY MONTH for examination for possible miscarriage, so every miscarriage can be documented, the fetal remains either buried or cremated, and the cause of the miscarriage can be determined and legal action taken if it is shown to have been influenced in any way by the behavior or actions of the mother.
Women can not be trusted to decide this for themselves.

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Are you capable of contributing anything other than useless sarcasm that doesn’t promote constructive conversation?

I think he is contributing to the thread in a manner consistent with what is appropriate for this thread.

ChristianForCats said:

Totally false. Show me how it is possible for many women to never regret having their own abortions, yet at the same time be pro-lifers.


The keyword is lowers. Because contraception does not always prevent a woman from getting pregnant it is important to note that even if you are married, you should never have sex until you want to have kids.

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I did not make myself clear. I meant that the individual (obviously) was not aborted.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

God gave women the option of choosing when to have sex so that we would not have this problem

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As has been quite vividly demonstrated the women do not always have the option of choosing. There was just a thread how 16% or so of virginity losses are in the US are for rapes.

Added to that any cultural or economical pressure around the world and it is bit too simple to say that women really have the final choice.