United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan

sdowney717

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Contentions is also emulations, and you can see the extreme responses in some of these people, which demonstrates they are doing works of the flesh.

which means

excitement of mind, ardour, fervour of spirit

zeal, ardour in embracing, pursuing, defending anything

zeal in behalf of, for a person or thing

the fierceness of indignation, punitive zeal

an envious and contentious rivalry, jealosy
 
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sdowney717

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Dissensions is also seditions which means to separate oneself, stand apart.
They separate themselves into their group and so really show themselves to be separated from the true church and God as they perform another work of the flesh.


STRONGS NT 1370: διχοστασία
διχοστασία, -ας, ἡ, (διχοστατέω to stand apart), dissension, division; plural: Romans 16:17; 1 Corinthians 3:3 [Rec.]; Galatians 5:20. (Occasionally in Greek writings from Solon in Demosthenes, p. 423, 4 and Herodotus 5, 75 on; [1 Macc. 3:29].)
 
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helmut

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I think that we need to start using a different word for those who rebel against and reinterpret God's Word to say something totally opposite of what it says, or want a socialist society
Well, socialists are not the only one that rebel against God's Word.
1.Tim 6,10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
This word is a flap in the face of Adam Smith who said that pursuing the self-interest of every individual will by an "unvisible hand" lead to the welfare of everyone.

The word "progressive" may have gained entry into dictionaries as used here in this thread but it has nothing to do with making progress.
There is a German pun that progress (Fortschritt) means a step away from God (ein Schritt fort von Gott).


We currently have one of the most PROGRESSIVE Presidents that I can remember in office
This seems to be a rather idiosyncratic use of the word "progressive".
 
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section9+1

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Churches are so desperate for everyone to come. Come as you are and come on your own terms. God's terms are irrelevant in this new day. God will accept anyone right where they are at. Bring anything along with you. Just as you are since if sin might exclude you, well then, all you need to do is relabel your sin as righteousness and God will be happy to have you regardless of whatever you choose to hang onto and drag along with you. What a great message! And the churches continue to dwindle and die.
 
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FireDragon76

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Methodists in my lifetime have always been a very liberal denomination- growing up in the UMC, the religion I was exposed to was far from American evangelicalism. It was more like Episcopalianism with less liturgy.

I am surprised honestly that homosexuality is still an issue. Even when I was younger, most of the churches I went to were quietly moving towards finding ways to include gay people in the ministry.
 
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rjs330

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Methodists in my lifetime have always been a very liberal denomination- growing up in the UMC, the religion I was exposed to was far from American evangelicalism. It was more like Episcopalianism with less liturgy.

I am surprised honestly that homosexuality is still an issue. Even when I was younger, most of the churches I went to were quietly moving towards finding ways to include gay people in the ministry.
Sad just sad. When the judgment comes it's not going to be pleasant for these churches. They no longer can call themselves churches of Christ.
 
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Monksailor

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Well, socialists are not the only one that rebel against God's Word.
1.Tim 6,10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
This word is a flap in the face of Adam Smith who said that pursuing the self-interest of every individual will by an "unvisible hand" lead to the welfare of everyone.


There is a German pun that progress (Fortschritt) means a step away from God (ein Schritt fort von Gott).



This seems to be a rather idiosyncratic use of the word "progressive".
I never said that socialists were the only ones rebelling against God's Word.

I like your German pun.

Not idiosyncratic at all. To help you see this look at these synonyms given in FIRST place for progressive from a thesaurus: "advancing, mounting, rising, increasing, growing, continuous, successive, following, adding, multiplying, consecutive, gradual, serial, unbroken, uninterrupted, endless, regular, methodical, uniform" Another word for progressive | Synonyms for progressive Most of these are very accurate.
 
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helmut

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Not idiosyncratic at all. To help you see this look at these synonyms given in FIRST place for progressive from a thesaurus
Any word covers a (broad or narrow) range of meanings, and depending which "region" in the meaning of a word you talk about, there are different synonyms. If you mention a political, the context selects "progressive" as a political label, not, e.g. (a) progressive (illness).
"Progressive" in a political sense is leftist, or has to do with human rights, liberal or the like (there is even there a range of meanings). But I see no use of "progressive" that allows to apply it to Trump in a way that makes sense.
 
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Monksailor

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Any word covers a (broad or narrow) range of meanings, and depending which "region" in the meaning of a word you talk about, there are different synonyms. If you mention a political, the context selects "progressive" as a political label, not, e.g. (a) progressive (illness).
"Progressive" in a political sense is leftist, or has to do with human rights, liberal or the like (there is even there a range of meanings). But I see no use of "progressive" that allows to apply it to Trump in a way that makes sense.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion as I. I try to avoid a political perspective and attempt to look more objectively at things like what progress they make in their functioning in that office and if their agenda,regardless of political position, agrees with God's, and/or is favorable to His chosen people, Israel. If their functioning is becomes halted I look for reasons outside of their control like saboteurs and traitorous actions against him and our country.
 
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helmut

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Sorry for the late reply, had some problems with graphic om my system, and could not log in a consequence that the only browser that worked supported no scripting ...

I try to avoid a political perspective and attempt to look more objectively at things like what progress they make in their functioning
Trump and functioning? Do you mean he has increased the number of tweets he sends every day? Or the rate of disturbing politics by alienating allies of the US?

The most dramatic result of his politics is: The Iran now rather openly works on an atomic bomb, while he had ceased to do this after the deal that Trump tore into pieces (every evidence about Iran aspired the A-bomb dates from before that deal, even Netanyahu offered no incident of breaking the agreement).

This is malfunctioning, and I don't see any change to the better.
 
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Monksailor

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Sorry for the late reply, had some problems with graphic om my system, and could not log in a consequence that the only browser that worked supported no scripting ...


Trump and functioning? Do you mean he has increased the number of tweets he sends every day? Or the rate of disturbing politics by alienating allies of the US?

The most dramatic result of his politics is: The Iran now rather openly works on an atomic bomb, while he had ceased to do this after the deal that Trump tore into pieces (every evidence about Iran aspired the A-bomb dates from before that deal, even Netanyahu offered no incident of breaking the agreement).

This is malfunctioning, and I don't see any change to the better.
Just admit it; you never will, regardless.
 
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helmut

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Just admit it; you never will, regardless.
Well, I will, e.g. when Trump ceases to support Saudi-Arabia in their effort to start a war against Iran (preferably a pure US-Iranian war) and returns to the agreement, which will stop Iran's A-bomb-program (other points should be negotiated after that), or if he stops making ridiculous jokes about climate change, and rather helps the US branches that will benefit from a program against climate change, or if he seeks cooperation and not confrontation with the democratic allies of the US, or similar points.

Up to now, he has manoevered Iran into a situation where the choice is: get an A-bomb as soon as possible (so you are as safe as North Korea), or surrender to the US. He has lifted China into a position where the EU is almost a natural ally against his trade wars. He has hampered any effort to fight terrorism indirectly inspired from Saudi-Arabia, even after the Saudis murdered Kashoggi. And all this talk with Kim Jong-Eun or calling him a nice guys has brought nothing.

The world is more unsafe than a few years ago, and a to great deal this is caused by Trump.
 
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Monksailor

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SAFETY IN THE WORLD, SHOULD NOT BE THAT MUCH OF A CONCERN FOR ONE WHOSE CITIZENSHIP IS ELSEWHERE AS MUCH AS OTHER THINGS LIKE STICKING BEHIND ISRAEL, STANDING FOR JESUS AND HIS IDEOLOGIES AND BEING A VOCAL WITNESS FOR HIM UNTO THE UNSAVED, NOT ENABLING EVIL, TERROR, AND OPPRESSION REIGN, HOLDING OTHER COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE AND NEGOTIATING FAIRNESS IN TRADE, BEING SHREWD AS VIPERS, COLLECTING TAXES WHERE DUE FROM EVERY PERSON WHO BENEFITS FROM BEING IN THE US AS SUCH BENEFITS DO NOT COME WITHOUT A COST.
 
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carp614

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Sin is sin. Part of the message of the Gospel is that we have all fallen short of the Glory of God.

In a sense I think this should be easy to fix, though I know it isn't. Loving sinners is what we are called to do. A statement of support and love for these people would cover bases nicely. But there is a different between loving sinners and embracing sin within the body of Christ as a formal doctrine. The former is a command from the Lord, the latter is specifically spoken out against in numerous places in the New Testament. The UMC did the latter from day one of it's inception.

The UMC congregations I was a part of growing up comprehensively failed to deal with this in any meaningful way, seemingly preferring tithing members to biblically sound doctrine, which would have "turned people off". I'm sure it was different other places, but that was my experience.

The UMC will split over this I think. We'll see.
 
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helmut

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SAFETY IN THE WORLD, SHOULD NOT BE THAT MUCH OF A CONCERN FOR ONE WHOSE CITIZENSHIP IS ELSEWHERE
If you argue on this ground: A man openly speaking of grabbing women between their legs is unqualified for any public office. Fullstop.
 
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helmut

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AS MUCH AS OTHER THINGS LIKE STICKING BEHIND ISRAEL
I stand behind Israel, but not behind Netanyahu.

STANDING FOR JESUS AND HIS IDEOLOGIES AND BEING A VOCAL WITNESS FOR HIM UNTO THE UNSAVED
Jesus did not teach an ideology. He brought salvation, and love.

NOT ENABLING EVIL
Not enabling climate change, but trying to stop it (God will destroy who destroy this earth, Revelation 11:18), not light up hatred, neither hatred to political adversaries, nor hatred toward people in need like refugees, poor sick guys etc. (cf. Mt 25:41-46), and so on.

TERROR, AND OPPRESSION REIGN
Being friend of the Saudis is just the opposite. In respect to oppression they are worse than Iran, in respect to terrorism they are almost equal to Iran. In sum, then Iran is the less bad state of the two.

No, I don't think we should Iran let go off lightly, but we should take consequences from the fact that Saudi-Arabia is an ideological enemy, to the West in general and to Christians in special.

HOLDING OTHER COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE AND NEGOTIATING FAIRNESS IN TRADE
To achieve this, there are international agreements like the WTO, and regional economic treaties and alliances like the EU. A president of a powerful state who insists on agreement just between two countries doesn't aim at fairness, he wants to play out the force he has to get at unfair deals.

COLLECTING TAXES WHERE DUE FROM EVERY PERSON WHO BENEFITS FROM BEING IN THE US AS SUCH BENEFITS DO NOT COME WITHOUT A COST.
... but at the same time the billions of dollars earned by US internet companies in the EU should not taxed by European states? Or do you advocate a double standard about tax justice?

According to the standards you posted, Trump is an evil president.
 
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Monksailor

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Eastern Orthodoxy never changes. The world changes, but we remain the same; year after year we look even more strange to the modern world. Orthodoxy in the West has been welcoming refugees from churches going the wrong direction for awhile now.
 
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