Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

Jonaitis said:

I don't know what "dead" faith looks like. If it is dead, it is non-existent. This means that the kind of faith that is dead, in James' argument, is a mere spoken profession. He clearly points out that the fruit of a living faith shows that it exists. You must twist this argument to fit your own theology.

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☦Marius☦ said:

He doesn't say all that at all, you are adding more to you're interpretation then is in the verse. Spoken profession, where? You've never met someone who has fallen away from the faith?

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Jonaitis said:

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In this whole passage I've quoted above, James proves that true faith cannot be without works. I highlighted above (v. 22) to show that James clearly states that faith is seen through works and is perfected by works. It is an incomplete faith that does not work, and a dead the same! What does it mean to be "dead" Marius? Lifeless. In order for faith to be lifeless means that it doesn't exist.

Everyone knows that you act upon what you believe. If you believed this country as we know it would end in nuclear warfare, you would be at this moment stocking up on supplies in a bunker. If you believed that parachutes work, you would have confidence in jumping near 18,000 ft off a plane to skydive. If you believed something, you will act accordingly. There is no way you can truly believe in Christ and live a godless life, that's hypocrisy. The only kind of faith ever mentioned in Scripture that has a semblance of true faith is in the parable of the sower. Jesus said that the seed that sowed on stony ground is a man with an emotional-driven belief until persecution and trials blew it away. He deceived himself to believe he trusted in God and became undeceived upon those untimely circumstances. They "fell" away as you can put it.

Where else in Scripture can I prove that a person always acts on what he believes? Hebrews 11.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report" (v. 1).

They obtained a good report? In the ESV it says, "For by [faith] the people of old received their commendation." How did they receive their commendation by faith? It was their works.

"By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks" (v. 4).

Abel's faith was manifested through his offering.

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God" (v. 5).

His faith lead to a life that pleased God.

"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going" (v. 8).

He believed God on everything he was promised, and he acted on it in obedience. He did not know what was ahead of him, all he could see was the promises God made and his faith walked for it.

The whole chapter discusses what men did on account of their faith in God. Their faith commended them, gave them a good report, because it was shown in their life. This is what James refers to, a faith that is evident through works is true faith. It is complete faith (James 2:22), not the temporal kind that is tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and trial and temptation.

Abraham was justified by his works, because his faith was completed by his works. His faith alone in Christ alone was evident in his obedience to God. He believed that God could raise the dead, and he wasn't hesitant based on that faith to sacrifice Isaac. Justified was Abraham, justified was Rahab, through their works that they were indeed believers in God.

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Jonaitis said:

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In this whole passage I've quoted above, James proves that true faith cannot be without works. I highlighted above (v. 22) to show that James clearly states that faith is seen through works and is perfected by works. It is an incomplete faith that does not work, and a dead the same! What does it mean to be "dead" Marius? Lifeless. In order for faith to be lifeless means that it doesn't exist.

Everyone knows that you act upon what you believe. If you believed this country as we know it would end in nuclear warfare, you would be at this moment stocking up on supplies in a bunker. If you believed that parachutes work, you would have confidence in jumping near 18,000 ft off a plane to skydive. If you believed something, you will act accordingly. There is no way you can truly believe in Christ and live a godless life, that's hypocrisy. The only kind of faith ever mentioned in Scripture that has a semblance of true faith is in the parable of the sower. Jesus said that the seed that sowed on stony ground is a man with an emotional-driven belief until persecution and trials blew it away. He deceived himself to believe he trusted in God and became undeceived upon those untimely circumstances. They "fell" away as you can put it.

Where else in Scripture can I prove that a person always acts on what he believes? Hebrews 11.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report" (v. 1).

They obtained a good report? In the ESV it says, "For by [faith] the people of old received their commendation." How did they receive their commendation by faith? It was their works.

"By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks" (v. 4).

Abel's faith was manifested through his offering.

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God" (v. 5).

His faith lead to a life that pleased God.

"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going" (v. 8).

He believed God on everything he was promised, and he acted on it in obedience. He did not know what was ahead of him, all he could see was the promises God made and his faith walked for it.

The whole chapter discusses what men did on account of their faith in God. Their faith commended them, gave them a good report, because it was shown in their life. This is what James refers to, a faith that is evident through works is true faith. It is complete faith (James 2:22), not the temporal kind that is tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and trial and temptation.

Abraham was justified by his works, because his faith was completed by his works. His faith alone in Christ alone was evident in his obedience to God. He believed that God could raise the dead, and he wasn't hesitant based on that faith to sacrifice Isaac. Justified was Abraham, justified was Rahab, through their works that they were indeed believers in God.

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Jonaitis said:

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In this whole passage I've quoted above, James proves that true faith cannot be without works. I highlighted above (v. 22) to show that James clearly states that faith is seen through works and is perfected by works. It is an incomplete faith that does not work, and a dead the same! What does it mean to be "dead" Marius? Lifeless. In order for faith to be lifeless means that it doesn't exist.

Everyone knows that you act upon what you believe. If you believed this country as we know it would end in nuclear warfare, you would be at this moment stocking up on supplies in a bunker. If you believed that parachutes work, you would have confidence in jumping near 18,000 ft off a plane to skydive. If you believed something, you will act accordingly. There is no way you can truly believe in Christ and live a godless life, that's hypocrisy. The only kind of faith ever mentioned in Scripture that has a semblance of true faith is in the parable of the sower. Jesus said that the seed that sowed on stony ground is a man with an emotional-driven belief until persecution and trials blew it away. He deceived himself to believe he trusted in God and became undeceived upon those untimely circumstances. They "fell" away as you can put it.

Where else in Scripture can I prove that a person always acts on what he believes? Hebrews 11.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report" (v. 1).

They obtained a good report? In the ESV it says, "For by [faith] the people of old received their commendation." How did they receive their commendation by faith? It was their works.

"By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks" (v. 4).

Abel's faith was manifested through his offering.

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God" (v. 5).

His faith lead to a life that pleased God.

"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going" (v. 8).

He believed God on everything he was promised, and he acted on it in obedience. He did not know what was ahead of him, all he could see was the promises God made and his faith walked for it.

The whole chapter discusses what men did on account of their faith in God. Their faith commended them, gave them a good report, because it was shown in their life. This is what James refers to, a faith that is evident through works is true faith. It is complete faith (James 2:22), not the temporal kind that is tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and trial and temptation.

Abraham was justified by his works, because his faith was completed by his works. His faith alone in Christ alone was evident in his obedience to God. He believed that God could raise the dead, and he wasn't hesitant based on that faith to sacrifice Isaac. Justified was Abraham, justified was Rahab, through their works that they were indeed believers in God.

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David Cabrera said:

I don't get your point, it says that faith without works is incomplete.

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Oscarr said:

Define what you mean by "works". Are you saying that obedience to the Law justifies a person?

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zoidar said:

So the cure for being a bad servant is to refocus on the cross?

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Maria Billingsley said:

When you are saved you become a good servant.

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Maria Billingsley said:

When you are saved you become a good servant.

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☦Marius☦ said:

Dead faith does NOT save. Dead faith is dead, gone, non existent. There is no such thing as faith without works, because true faith brings true works.

Romans 11:18-22
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.



2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 2:25-26
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations

Revelation 3:1-5
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:

‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keepit,and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know atwhat hour I will come against you. soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Hebrews 3:6-14
but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,

exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Colossians 1:22-23
he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Luke 12:41-46
Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?”
the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. he will set him over all his possessions. is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.

Matthew 10:22-32
and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. the housetops. do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. even the hairs of your head are all numbered. you areof more value than many sparrows. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, Ialso will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,


Matthew 19:21-30
Jesus said to him: “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. many who are firstwill be last, and the last first.

Matthew: 6:15
but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 10:26-28
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

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Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-24
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Ephesians 5:3-5
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

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☦Marius☦ said:

Dead faith does NOT save. Dead faith is dead, gone, non existent. There is no such thing as faith without works, because true faith brings true works.

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