Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language in tongues?

Bible Highlighter said:

Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language?

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Couple of things:

First off; the real issue is identifying out of Scripture what tongues actually was. Once that is firmly established; the rest of the answers are pretty simple.

"Out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witness let all things be established." Ever notice that every thing in the Bible is repeated at least once? So, somewhere else in the Scripture has to be the 2nd (and 3rd) witness as to what was going on in the Corinthian church. That "2nd witness" I believe was in the book of Acts. And in Acts 2; they were clearly speaking known foreign languages.

So unless you're miraculously speaking in a known foreign language; you're not speaking in tongues.

I can speak in tongues:
Vater unser im Himmel, geheiligt werde dein Name; dein Reich komme; dein Wille geschehe, wie im Himmel so auf Erden. Unser tägliches Brot gib uns heute. Und vergib uns unsere Schuld, wie auch wir vergeben unsern Schuldigern; und führe uns nicht in Versuchung, sondern erlöse uns von dem Bösen. Denn dein ist das Reich und die Kraft und die Herrlichkeit in Ewigkeit. Amen.

(See - I can speak in tongues! LOL)

Read more at: Lord's Prayer-German

This one I heard recently: "The Jew seeks after a sign." Tongues were a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that don't believe (I.E. = Jews). The fact that the gospel was going out to the world in foreign languages was a sign that their stewardship of the word of God had now been passed on to someone else. So consequently, when their age had ended and Judaism was dismantled; the sign (tongues) ceased too.

Others say the sign ceased at the completion of the Scripture, because now that what was perfected was come; that which was in part was done away with. I studied that verse once and I would conclude that understanding is valid as it regards to the interpretation of that verse. The fact that tongues were a sign to the Jews though, explains why they ceased at the completion / near completion of the canon of Scripture.

Now getting back to the Jews. Scripture also declares that with men of another tongue I will speak unto this people. They were judged for committing idolatry with the gods of these other nations who's tongue they did not understand. Ironically, come the 1st century; now the God of the Jews has become the God of all these other nations, (as opposed to the Jews adopting the gods of these other nations). Interesting twist on their sin!

Now is this part of the warnings we see in the epistles of many falling away before the end; "I shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie." "Doctrines of devils" etc? I believe the modern tongues movement is part of this entire package. But I think there's more to it than just that. Which would be the subject of a whole other thread.

So anyways, from what I've studied; those are the conclusions I've come to.

Bible Highlighter said:

Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language?

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Hi, I am would love to hear your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15: 55-6. Also what is the Royal Law the Lord says we are under and does that effect the believers to relationship to just the civil and ceremonial or the entire Law that Lord showed the Royal, fulfilled, Law which I think is the live lived towards all men love fulfills the Law and and Love is meant to put into action as Grace to all men and fulfilling the Law by the power of Grace. . Look very forward to your insights. Nice thread.

Bible Highlighter said:

Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language?

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I will say what I've always said about this, that, or the other spiritual manifestation.

What is the FRUIT of it in the person involved and the lives of others?

Dixibehr50 said:

I will say what I've always said about this, that, or the other spiritual manifestation.

What is the FRUIT of it in the person involved and the lives of others?

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What are you meaning by the 'other spiritual manifestation'

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Carl Emerson said:

What are you meaning by the 'other spiritual manifestation'

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Healing, for one.

Revelation of a person's secrets, for another.

Get the idea?

I have found both these areas profoundly fruitful...

Two articles every Believer should read before dabbling with tongues;

Speaking in Tongues: Glossolalia and Stress Reduction - Dana Foundation

Religious affiliation and psychiatric disorder among Protestant baby boomers. - PubMed - NCBI

Carl Emerson said:

I have found both these areas profoundly fruitful...

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Another important criterion is what doctrine comes with it?

I heard one man who was billed as a prophet.

But his sermon was about how Jesus couldn't perform any miracles after His resurrection because he didn't have a physical body, and the Holy Spirit needs a physical body to manifest through.

Do I have to point out all the errors in this?

But people were eating this garbage with a spoon!

Vicky gould said:

Hi, I am would love to hear your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15: 55-6. Also what is the Royal Law the Lord says we are under and does that effect the believers to relationship to just the civil and ceremonial or the entire Law that Lord showed the Royal, fulfilled, Law which I think is the live lived towards all men love fulfills the Law and and Love is meant to put into action as Grace to all men and fulfilling the Law by the power of Grace. . Look very forward to your insights. Nice thread.

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51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

The final act of completion of the redemption plan is the bodily resurrection. The first resurrection is the raising of the dead soul to eternal life and the last resurrection is the raising of the body to eternal incorruptibility. That's what verse 55 means.

Now, what is the purpose of the law?

Scripture says the law is a schoolmaster that points us to Christ.

The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

(Not so much though that they are "without excuse" but more so that they have not been left without a witness.)

That is important to keep in mind because, the law and the redemption plan are really two sides of the same coin. Jesus says: "This is my blood of New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Then Hebrews 9 says that for where a testament is; there by necessity need be the death of the testator. The Covenant is the Old Testament. The fulfillment of that Covenant is the New Testament. The Covenant was made among the members of the God head prior to anything ever being created. It was agreed that the testator would die to redeem sinners. And the proclamation of the Old Testament law, was the Covenant that the testator would obey and fulfill.

Mere mortals on account of our temporal nature are not capable of fulfilling that Covenant. As being created in the image of God; obviously we are capable of obeying law; but we are not capable of atoning for our own sin. And this is why God had to be incarnated in human flesh.

The law can only condemn mortals for our sin and the law isn't only the written revelation. There are generations of nations that have lived and died without the written revelation of Scripture. Yet both the wrath of God and the invisible things of God are witnessed unto all of us through the creation; whereby of that witness we are either condemned or redeemed; even outside of the written witness of Scripture. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Christ is that word; both in flesh (part of the creature) and in written revelation.

So what does that mean if we are "in Christ" as per our relationship to "the Law"?

That testament has been fulfilled, so we live it out via the power of the Holy Spirit. The manifestation of that is that we do live out life "loving God above all else and loving our neighbor as ourselves." The Holy Spirit being the 3rd person of the Trinity, obviously is a moral entity; thus the injunctions and warnings by the writers of the epistles to "make your calling and election sure". Those that Christ bought from the foundations of the world can never be lost. We know we are His though if the Spirit lives inside of us because He can not deny Himself. So the evidence of salvation is the fruit of the Spirit, not the miraculous gifts that had been given as a witness against the unbelieving Jews.

Here's one other interesting tidbit about the modern tongues movement: "slain in the spirit"? Have you ever gone into the Scripture and looked up all the places people fell over backwards? (I think there's only about 4 or 5 accounts.) They were all under the judgement of God!

All the prophets, believers, even Jesus Himself; when they all "fell over"; it was always face down!

Bible Highlighter said:

Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language?

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We have biblical proof that all tongue speaking today is false.

I seem to remember that of the 12 spies sent into Canaan by Moses, only 2 were led by the Spirit, the other 10...the majority view, were led by FEAR. All of those 12 men were chosen by Moses, they were able men. Moses dad in law told him to choose able men or good reputation. These men were the ones who went into Canaan...but 10 of those able men led Israel to miss out on what God had promised them.
An excellent Spirit was in Joshua and Caleb....a spirit of boldness and faith. But those who rely on their intellectual understanding dwell in fear and actively oppose what the Spirit wants them to enter into.
Tongues is for you dear brother....but you have been poisoned by teachings against it.

Bible Highlighter said:

I am talking about those who believe they can speak in tongues as part of their praying to God behind closed doors (When nobody is around).

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this exposes a bias. The OP is about biblical support for a private prayer language and now you seem to expand upon that. what do you really want to talk about?

Dave L said:

We have biblical proof that all tongue speaking today is false.

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that's not what the op is asking, it is uniqily about biblical support for a private prayer langage. let's answer this question before we progress to "if so, is this for today"

DamianWarS said:

that's not what the op is asking, it is uniqily about biblical support for a private prayer langage. let's answer this question we progress to "if so, is this for today"

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I'm answering by saying there is no "tongues prayer language". Scripture does not support it.

Dave L said:

I'm answering by saying there is no "tongues prayer language". Scripture does not support it.

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You have no experiential knowledge of the difference between the "gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit" where God speaks to man through us, and the prayer tongues from YOUR spirit to God.

And the scripture plainly supports it. But there are obviously those who do not have the spiritual eyes to see what I see in scripture support.

1CO 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

I pray in tongues which no man understands...that obviously includes you Dave.

1CO 14:2 For one who speaks in a PRAYER tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit.

If you can not "rightly divide" which tongue Paul is speaking of in this verse, then maybe it's because it was written to the most Charismatic church spoken of in scripture. A church where the fundamentals cry hyperbole. A church where Paul says "the whole church" was Pentecostal tongue talkers.

NAS
1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

That you are a believer in God I can accept. That you are in the group of Christians considered by scripture to be "UNGIFTED" according to this verse, I can also accept.

And anyone here reading this thread and 'seeking truth' simply needs to know your authority to speak concerning this issue is from the position of one who is in the "UNGIFTED/NAS" or "UNLEARNED/KJV" "one who does not UNDERSTAND/NIV" group according to scripture.

Bible Highlighter said:

Also, Jesus condemned the idea of vain repetitious prayer. Most tongue speaking nowadays is a repeat of certain words that are not understood (i.e. they are words said in vain). Jesus said that there are those who think they will be heard for their much speaking. It is similar to mindless chanting that is done in other religions. Real biblical tongues was a gift to the early church and it was a real foreign language so as to reach others (Who spoke another language) for the cause of Christ. The interpreter would be there so as to help those who were present understand what was being said.

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Not all repetitions are vain, Bible Highlighter.

If they are, you'd better not sing the same hymn twice.

Hillsage said:

You have no experiential knowledge of the difference between the "gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit" where God speaks to man through us, and the prayer tongues from YOUR spirit to God.

And the scripture plainly supports it. But there are obviously those who do not have the spiritual eyes to see what I see in scripture support.

1CO 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

I pray in tongues which no man understands...that obviously includes you Dave.

1CO 14:2 For one who speaks in a PRAYER tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit.

If you can not "rightly divide" which tongue Paul is speaking of in this verse, then maybe it's because it was written to the most Charismatic church spoken of in scripture. A church where the fundamentals cry hyperbole. A church where Paul says "the whole church" was Pentecostal tongue talkers.

NAS
1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

That you are a believer in God I can accept. That you are in the group of Christians considered by scripture to be "UNGIFTED" according to this verse, I can also accept.

And anyone here reading this thread and 'seeking truth' simply needs to know your authority to speak concerning this issue is from the position of one who is in the "UNGIFTED/NAS" or "UNLEARNED/KJV" "one who does not UNDERSTAND/NIV" group according to scripture.

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The main reason you are wrong is because Paul said those who speak in tongues EDIFY themselves. He also said they need to interpret so the whole church could UNDERSTAND and become EDIFIED. Thus, those EDIFIED understood what they were saying. This is not true with today's "knock-off" gifts. They no not what they say.

Carl Emerson said:

I have found both these areas profoundly fruitful...

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There's another criterion that should be applied to this or that sign.

What doctrine comes with it.

There was a man who claimed to be a charismatic prophet.

In his sermon before he began "ministering in prophecy" (scare quotes deliberate), he said that Jesus could not perform any miracles after His resurrection, because He didn't have a physical body, and the Holy Ghost needs a physical body to manifest through.

Do I have to point out all the errors in this statement?

But most of the people who heard him were eating this garbage with a spoon!