Abortion is wrong

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
Or an open morning. Or an open evening. Or an open 5 minutes. Whatever, I don’t judge.

Indeed. Applying the morals of the parents to the discussion is critical. If not teens will find their answers elsewhere.

I guess with young parenting these days, I would not be surprised if there are Apps available for download.

Tropical Wilds · Sep 16, 2019

redleghunter said:
Indeed. Applying the morals of the parents to the discussion is critical. If not teens will find their answers elsewhere.

I guess with young parenting these days, I would not be surprised if there are Apps available for download.

Not so much “morals” but “general knowledge of human biology.” As I said, this thread has proven that the general public’s knowledge of how sex and biology works isn’t exactly amazing. Moral education vs biology are two entirely different things.

Chris35 · Sep 16, 2019

Regardless of weither it is right or not, your talking about wordly politics in a world who doesnt believe God exists, and will use any reason they can to justify without taking Gods word into account.

For one, most of the reasons for abortion on that list is a result of sin. Fleshy desires, lust, rape, incest, financial pressure, parental pressure, sex before marriage.

However those in God / brothes and sisters, are not apart of their world, and will make the decision based on God rather then the wordly view of whats right or wrong.

Have some faith in your brothers and sisters in Christ. It wasnt so long ago that someone posted on these forums that a couple where considering to have a child and love him, even though his wife was a victim of rape.

Let the world be the world, nothing you can do to change it, so i do not know why you get so angry about the decisions they make, weither the world sees it as morally right or wrong, it doesnt matter.

Those in Christ will make the right decision and even if they dont we cant judge them anyway.

Bro. Dave Gardner · Sep 16, 2019

bhayes said:
One case for abortion is that it is healthcare. But I ask you what part of sexual reproduction: fertilization, implantation, embryonic development and labour; is detrimental to the woman's health? In fact this is normal. If there was anything wrong with fertilization, or implantation, then you should seek healthcare. But to claim that a normal process of is detrimental to woman's health is obviously wrong. The second point some make is that pregnancy is a matter of inconvenience, because they didn't intend to get pregnant but only have sex. Regardless, it is a fact that one cannot get pregnant without having sex, and that sex is a means of procreation. It produces life, and this is how humans propagate. As a result, just because someone doesn't intend to get pregnant doesn't mean that the human life they have created is invalid. Whether you intended to or not, if you were to carry your child to term you would have a human being. Abortion is murder, because no matter where along the line of human development you are it is still murder if you end someones life. Do women have the right to do what they want with their bodies? An embryo is not apart of a woman's body. It relies on a woman's body, but it is a separate entity, that will give rise to a separate human being. So for a woman to abort their child, isn't doing what they want with their bodies but instead impeding on the rights of another.

While I agree with much of what you say, I would submit that, in fact, any part of the reproductive process can be detrimental to a woman's health. My wife's first pregnancy was an absolute nightmare. I literally had to carry her in my arms to the medical clinic where we were stationed in Germany so that she could be fed intravenously on a frequent basis. She had morning, noon, and night sickness nearly full-term and at no time did it enter our minds nor our conversations that abortion might be a remedy. It was never suggested as an option by the obstetric caregivers with whom we were so well-acquainted. Walking across a street can be detrimental to a woman's health. Female pedestrianism is not considered a healthcare issue to my knowledge. "Thou shalt not kill" was second nature to us. It still is. God has had so much mercy upon us. The foolishness which so easily be sets so many, He has seen fit to spare us. We are not worthy of His favor. Nevertheless He has been pleased to spare us so much misery. I feel no moral superiority as a result of being raised properly. Only mercy. Only mercy. May those who feel confident in excusing their wrong course of action experience His mercy as my family have.

Chris35 · Sep 16, 2019

We cannot judge, but have faith that those in Christ, will make the correct decision in there given circumstances.

If a couple were considering abortion due to financial pressure, would you then, knowing how much a child is worth, give to them weekly in order to support. For is not the life of a child worth more then money?

Im sure many have turned to the church in this situation, and i am sure many have been refused. Are we then in fact also in part, the ones resposible for the termination of the child? For they needed help, but none was given. We all decided that our money was worth more then the life of a child, regardless of how it was conceived.

We cannot judge, for if we do we would all be hypocrites.

Neostarwcc · Sep 16, 2019

What's stupid is that it's now legal to abort a full grown fetus in New York state. Try to figure that one out and then try to explain how this isn't women getting away with murder.

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
Not so much “morals” but “general knowledge of human biology.” As I said, this thread has proven that the general public’s knowledge of how sex and biology works isn’t exactly amazing. Moral education vs biology are two entirely different things.

I thought you said beyond the biology.

martymonster · Sep 16, 2019

It's pretty sad that this has to even be discussed.

GodLovesCats · Sep 16, 2019

bhayes said:
Do women have the right to do what they want with their bodies? An embryo is not a part of a woman's body. It relies on a woman's body, but it is a separate entity, that will give rise to a separate human being. So for a woman to abort their child, isn't doing what they want with their bodies but instead impeding on the rights of another.

The embryo is a separate human being, but they share an organ. The placenta is part of the mom's body. It is not part of the unborn baby's body, even though the embryo/fetus uses it. Therefore, the mom alone has the right to decide what to do with the placenta and attached umbilical cord, not the baby, because it is totally hers.

miggles · Sep 17, 2019

Heavenhome said:
And the argument that is given so often is that if it is illegal women will be forced to go to "butcher's" like the old days.

we should go after these butchers and charge them with first degree murder. and the woman too.

Heavenhome · Sep 17, 2019

Murder by abortion is something now that now is done by choice as figures show (was it 98%) and it is oftentimes within a marriage because of the wrong sex etc.
In a world where the majority of people are not Christian the people don't have a view on life as precious, so it is hard to argue to unbelievers from a Christian viewpoint.
There does need to be information widely spread about what the clinics and doctors are doing with the babies afterwards, maybe that may cause some society uproar but I don't think that would even get through

Even if you aren't Christian, there's no excuse though because there is so much contraception available, yet figures are higher than ever.
We know the root of it is wickedness and sin what is even worse now is the late term abortions.
Because so much of society accepts it now points more than ever the depths of depravity it has fallen and certainly must show us the days before Jesus' return are surely shorter than ever.
Pray for the unborn babies that our Father wants even if their parents don't, above all:

Watch and pray :prayer:

Jonathan Walkerin · Sep 17, 2019

redleghunter said:
So destroying our progeny in the hopes of keeping our economic status is poor logic, selfish and against God's economy.

So you would prefer we live poor, without healthcare, short lives, insufficient food, living eight people a room and wondering where we are going to scrounge next days living while the women destroy their health with repeatedly giving births like in Pakistani borderlands ?

You call that God`s economy ? What is so great about suffering ?

dqhall · Sep 17, 2019

redleghunter said:
Long study results but if you scroll down to the bottom it gives a summary of reasons women get abortions:

Snip from summary:

View attachment 263292

Link to full presentation: Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

Ending premarital sex, adultery and prostitution would reduce abortions. Condoms are not safe sex as they sometimes broke. Some women can not afford birth control, or can not use it as their church forbids it.

SPF · Sep 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
The placenta is part of the mom's body. It is not part of the unborn baby's body, even though the embryo/fetus uses it. Therefore, the mom alone has the right to decide what to do with the placenta and attached umbilical cord, not the baby, because it is totally hers.

Let's examine what you're saying from both a logical and Biblical perspective:

Logically: If what you suggest is true, then do you support the idea that a woman has the right to remove the placenta and umbilical cord from her body at any time she wants and for any reason? If what you said is right, if the mom alone has the right to decide what to do with her placenta and umbilical cord, then you would agree it's acceptable for the mom to remove those at any time she wants and let the baby in her die?

Biblically: Where in Scripture does it teach that we actually have any rights? In my time of reading Scripture, I find that it teaches that the more I seek Christ, the more I strive to become like Him, the more it results in me loving others more. The more it results in seeking to bring glory to God through all my actions. I see passages like this:

1 Corinthians 6:19,20 - Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

After we accept Christ, we begin a lifelong process of sanctification. Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Christ. Do you get that? You are called to become more like Christ every day. You are called to die to your flesh, to be a slave to Christ. Do you consider yourself a slave to Christ? Paul did.

Galatians 1:10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant [slave] of Christ.

I think many Christians, particularly in America have really missed the mark and have been led astray by popular culture into thinking that their independence and freedom to live and choose however they want is some sort of God-given right. I don't see that in Scripture. I see in Scripture the revelation that God is real, that I am called to love Him, to die to myself, to serve Him, to glorify Him, and to live my life in such a way so as to point others to Christ.

So I wonder - do you have the right to kill an unborn growing baby in your womb at any time you want because your body is yours? The world might tell you that, but I don't see Scripture telling you that. And hopefully you agree that you're a Christian first, and an American second.

Jonathan Walkerin said:
So you would prefer we live poor, without healthcare, short lives, insufficient food, living eight people a room and wondering where we are going to scrounge next days living while the women destroy their health with repeatedly giving births like in Pakistani borderlands ?

I'm confused, do you think this would have happened to America were it not for the abortions that have occurred?

jamesbond007 · Sep 17, 2019

I don't think saying abortion is murder is a winning argument. Humans aren't made like other animals who can live in the wild off survival. In the domestic environment, all animals are time and resource consuming to raise. Humans take up the most resources. That's just how it is and parents know that from experience. Abortion is the easy way out and the least cost with the fetus being forgotten. Sorry, I lack a better term. What is probably better use of time and energy is to offer other choices besides abortion including sex education, contraception, and prevention. Other alternatives are adoption, foster care, social services including the church. The ones putting up the baby for adoption would have to contribute to some kind of child support. Alternatives to abortion are more a social issue of responsibility than a religious one. Obviously, I'm not covering other issues such as marriage that could be related.

Heart2Soul said:
Contraceptives are indeed a responsible choice to include in your decision to fornicate. At least it lowers the chance of a woman getting pregnant. Still the best decision is to wait until you are married.

Even if a couple is married, they can have an unwanted child. There are many parents who want a baby and cannot conceive, so there are other alternatives to place the baby where it will be wanted.

tampasteve · Sep 17, 2019

MOD HAT ON

Please note that this thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum. The SOP may be different from the original location.

MOD HAT OFF

parousia70 · Sep 17, 2019

1/2-2/3 of all fertilized human embryos, when left alone, never result in a live birth.

By the way, if I require a kidney to survive, and you are a donor match, You should be forced to give me one of yours.

My Right to Life must supersede your right to bodily autonomy.

Pedra · Sep 17, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Even in marriage there comes a time more children are not wanted since they can not be financially or emotionally supported.

Even the birth rates of Catholics are about the same as the median number so clearly practical realities outweight some religious teachings.

Thou shalt not commit murder --is not a religious teaching, it is a Commandment from God.

Pedra · Sep 17, 2019

Chris35 said:
We cannot judge, but have faith that those in Christ, will make the correct decision in there given circumstances.

If a couple were considering abortion due to financial pressure, would you then, knowing how much a child is worth, give to them weekly in order to support. For is not the life of a child worth more then money?

Im sure many have turned to the church in this situation, and i am sure many have been refused. Are we then in fact also in part, the ones resposible for the termination of the child? For they needed help, but none was given. We all decided that our money was worth more then the life of a child, regardless of how it was conceived.

We cannot judge, for if we do we would all be hypocrites.

They have the option of giving the baby for adoption. A baby's life does not have to be taken.

Heart2Soul · Sep 17, 2019

redleghunter said:
Today it is more the "hook up" culture. The days of going steady and dating are behind us by and large. Showing up to a party to play video games and do a 'hook up' and be done is what is going on now.

Well I am a 60 yo grandma. I can't keep up with the latest gigs and fads. It is so sad.

Abortion is wrong

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