Abortion is wrong

Jonathan Walkerin · Sep 16, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
The man's choices are limited to his participation in sexual congress while the woman has control over a all her choices and all the choices after that.

You really think that some woman in Pakistani tribal lands has those choices ?

grasping the after wind · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
For lots of the world where the population is growing this is not always an option for financial or cultural reasons.

The premise was that it would have saved quite a lot of suffering and aborting of babies if women could choose not to be fertile naturally without any contraceptives being needed and the question was why wouldn`t the God have made it so ?

As a woman can all by herself avoid any suffering and aborting of babies without God doing anything more than He already a has done I don't see the point of your premise. Perhaps you would prefer a world where God took care of our every need without our asking and no obstacle were ever put in place for our every comfort but tell me what God would get out of treating us as if we were His superiors and he were our bond servant making sure we were always pleased by his efforts? Then tell me what the purpose of our existence would be?

grasping the after wind · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
You really think that some woman in Pakistani tribal lands has those choices ?

She has the choice of saying no. If someone then rapes her it is not because God did not make it impossible for women to get pregnant. Blaming God for the evil of men is unjust.

cDOSrun · Sep 16, 2019

Maybe it has something to do with the 2000+ aborted fetuses found at a recently deceased abortion doctor's home in Indiana (where no abortions had ever been performed)?
Or the fact that Planned Parenthood has made millions selling the organs and other body parts to buyers all over the world?
And that's just the beginning...
So the company making million$ harvesting unborn babies, donates million$ to the Democrats who push a pro-choice agenda...
Its the love for money that is the root of all evil.
**I will dig up sources for this info if absolutely necessary, but would prefer you do your own research because, especially as a father, this stuff make me sick.
HOWEVER, IT NEEDS TO BE KNOWN, not just ignored and allowed to operate unopposed in the shadows.

Jonathan Walkerin · Sep 16, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Perhaps you would prefer a world where God took care of our every need without our asking and no obstacle were ever put in place for our every comfort but tell me what God would get out of treating us as if we were His superiors and he were our bond servant making sure we were always pleased by his efforts? Then tell me what the purpose of our existence would be?

No that would be ridicilous. Who would ever do that ? Oh wait, was that not the God`s original plan for people in Eden ? You are saying it was a bad plan ?

AlexDTX · Sep 16, 2019

bhayes said:
One case for abortion is that it is healthcare. But I ask you what part of sexual reproduction: fertilization, implantation, embryonic development and labour; is detrimental to the woman's health? In fact this is normal. If there was anything wrong with fertilization, or implantation, then you should seek healthcare. But to claim that a normal process of is detrimental to woman's health is obviously wrong. The second point some make is that pregnancy is a matter of inconvenience, because they didn't intend to get pregnant but only have sex. Regardless, it is a fact that one cannot get pregnant without having sex, and that sex is a means of procreation. It produces life, and this is how humans propagate. As a result, just because someone doesn't intend to get pregnant doesn't mean that the human life they have created is invalid. Whether you intended to or not, if you were to carry your child to term you would have a human being. Abortion is murder, because no matter where along the line of human development you are it is still murder if you end someones life. Do women have the right to do what they want with their bodies? An embryo is not apart of a woman's body. It relies on a woman's body, but it is a separate entity, that will give rise to a separate human being. So for a woman to abort their child, isn't doing what they want with their bodies but instead impeding on the rights of another.

I would not call it just wrong, it is evil. It is a billion dollar industry whose profit lies , not in the removal of the child from the womb, but the sale of body parts and tissue for stem cell research and use.

Heart2Soul · Sep 16, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Men don't get pregnant and, outside of rapists, they do not force women to become pregnant. The choice lies with the woman whether to risk becoming pregnant or not. AFAIK there has been only one immaculate conception. In saying this I do not resolve men of responsibility for their actions . It is the man's choice to risk becoming a parent by his actions and that man is as responsible as the woman for the creation of the new life. The man, however, outside of a rapist, cannot force a women to allow him entry into her body , cannot insist that the woman have an abortion, cannot refuse to support a child the woman has decided to keep. The man's choices are limited to his participation in sexual congress while the woman has control over a all her choices and all the choices after that. As the one with the most choices, I think it is fair that the woman take the most responsibility for becoming pregnant or refraining from doing so. Unless one were to make the argument that women are somehow less inherently capable of being responsible than men, I cannot see how one could argue that it is not the case that the woman should consider it her responsibility to avoid being pregnant if she does not wish to be.

In today's society young teenage girls are being pressured by their boyfriend to have sex or he will break up with them and find another girlfriend. It's called manipulation...and a young teenage girl hasn't got a clue about their fertile cycles yet unless their parents have educated them. Schools teach sex education to some degree but it mostly teaches safe sex practices.

Tropical Wilds · Sep 16, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
In today's society young teenage girls are being pressured by their boyfriend to have sex or he will break up with them and find another girlfriend. It's called manipulation...and a young teenage girl hasn't got a clue about their fertile cycles yet unless their parents have educated them. Schools teach sex education to some degree but it mostly teaches safe sex practices.

And as this thread shows, it’s entirely possible that said teenager’s parents are clueless about fertility/conception/pregnancy themselves, giving them a whole buffet of bad information.

topher694 · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Ever wonder why God did not give women an option of choosing when to be fertile and when not to so we would not have this problem ?

This right here is why I usually try to avoid reading threads on this topic. Today I failed.

GirdYourLoins · Sep 16, 2019

You havent even touched on the physical aspects of how abortions are carried out. I wont go into detail here but it is absolutely horrific and the pro choice (the awfu name they use) group want it extending to any time before birth for any reason.

Tropical Wilds · Sep 16, 2019

I’m pro-choice, I don’t want it “extending to any time before birth for any reason.”

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
I tend to read scripture as teaching us not to fornicate/have sex outside of marriage. That could possibly end the need for abortion period.
How many married women are running to the clinic to get an abortion? I am sure it is rare.
No it is the lust of the flesh that causes humans to fornicate and out of their lust they conceive a child.
Abortion is on the rise as sexual immorality rises.

Long study results but if you scroll down to the bottom it gives a summary of reasons women get abortions:

Snip from summary:

Link to full presentation: Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Even in marriage there comes a time more children are not wanted since they can not be financially or emotionally supported.

Do you believe this is a valid reason to abort a perfectly healthy child in the womb?

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
For lots of the world where the population is growing this is not always an option for financial or cultural reasons.

The premise was that it would have saved quite a lot of suffering and aborting of babies if women could choose not to be fertile naturally without any contraceptives being needed and the question was why wouldn`t the God have made it so ?

Meaning that in poverty, the ends justify the means?

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
You really think that some woman in Pakistani tribal lands has those choices ?

The mentality is much different in poorer countries. We see having children in the West as a financial burden to feed, clothe, and spend tens of thousands of dollars on education.

In a place like Pakistan or India having children is seen as a blessing. We see this as more mouths to feed, but they see it as more hands and feet to help survive and progress. A friend who lives at the poverty level in another country told me last week his mother and father had 10 children. Only he and three survived to adulthood. That was mostly from sickness and disease. But his dad and mom would not have changed having 10 children he told me. They loved them all and did not know if they would survive or not.

Sickness, poverty and disease has been with mankind since the Fall. I'm sure even in the times of the patriarchs it did not cross their minds to stop having kids. More kids more farm hands and people to shepherd flocks. Reducing children because of economic comfort is just a modern Western industrial idea those in poorer third world countries don't share. And our Western solution is to bring them into our world and so called values, when a lot of their suffering is due to our so called advancement.

So destroying our progeny in the hopes of keeping our economic status is poor logic, selfish and against God's economy.

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
In today's society young teenage girls are being pressured by their boyfriend to have sex or he will break up with them and find another girlfriend. It's called manipulation...and a young teenage girl hasn't got a clue about their fertile cycles yet unless their parents have educated them. Schools teach sex education to some degree but it mostly teaches safe sex practices.

Today it is more the "hook up" culture. The days of going steady and dating are behind us by and large. Showing up to a party to play video games and do a 'hook up' and be done is what is going on now.

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
And as this thread shows, it’s entirely possible that said teenager’s parents are clueless about fertility/conception/pregnancy themselves, giving them a whole buffet of bad information.

They were clueless when they had already had children and raised them?

Tropical Wilds · Sep 16, 2019

redleghunter said:
They were clueless when they had already had children and raised them?

Having a child requires two people and an open afternoon, not medical knowledge or a fundamental understanding of biology/reproduction.

redleghunter · Sep 16, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
Having a child requires two people and an open afternoon, not medical knowledge or a fundamental understanding of biology/reproduction.

An open afternoon?

Tropical Wilds · Sep 16, 2019

redleghunter said:
An open afternoon?

Or an open morning. Or an open evening. Or an open 5 minutes. Whatever, I don’t judge.

Abortion is wrong

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