Our churches today are far removed from the early church!

nolidad

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Born again Christians, His sheep, who become lost, must repent or remain lost.

Lost refers to a person who needs salvation.


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7





JLB

So you do believe someone who was born again, and becomes lost -they need to be born again- again! and if they get lost again, they need to be born again-again-again! Why do you hide from what y9ou believe?

It may not say it just that way in the Bible (because a child of God can never be lost again) but that is exactly what you say has to happen they must get saved again, then again . Why do you hide from you r0wn doctrine?

If you believe you should be proud to do so!!!
 
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JLB777

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The teaching I hear Jesus preaching is this; I too am a son of man who needs to bring an unbeliever to Christ for initial salvation of his spirit. And then mentor him in discipleship.


The teaching about the lost is about Christians, “His sheep”, who have become lost through sin.


He taught His disciples to go after them and restore them back to God.


James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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So you do believe someone who was born again, and becomes lost -they need to be born again- again!


No. They need to repent and be reconciled back to God, because they have wandered away and become lost.


I won’t say this again or address any of your post’s that keep talking about born again again, or unborn again.




JLB
 
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Hillsage

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The teaching about the lost is about Christians, “His sheep”, who have become lost through sin.


He taught His disciples to go after them and restore them back to God.


James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
JLB
I agree with James. What I don't agree with, is you believing that the salvation that YOU/I are 'saving a soul from death and COVERING a multitude of sins', is talking about the salvation of your spirit which GETS you into heaven by virtue of being 'spirit' BORN AGAIN into the family of "GOD who IS SPIRIT" (Joh 4:24).

James isn't talking about the 'JUSTIFICATION' OSAS salvation of your spirit. He is talking about working out the SANCTIFICATION salvation of your soul and saving yourself from a living HELL on earth.

JAM 1:21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

But I speak of a salvation that not even Martin Luther understood. That's why Martin thought the book of James was "an epistle of straw" in the bible. He said that because he thought it contradicted Paul's statements concerning "justification by faith". It doesn't, because 'the salvation of spirit by faith and 'justification' wasn't the salvation that James was writing about to his born again OSAS "brethren".

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/martin-luther-james-bible
 
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nolidad

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No. They need to repent and be reconciled back to God, because they have wandered away and become lost.


I won’t say this again or address any of your post’s that keep talking about born again again, or unborn again.




JLB

Then let me ask you! If bewing saved is being born again- what happens in your theology when a believer supposedly becomes lost?

Are they still born again or not??
 
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LoveofTruth

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Those who think they have the gifts are the furthest removed. Acting like the early church is hypocrisy in and of itself.
1 Corinthians 1:2. Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:...10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
 
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JLB777

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The teaching I hear Jesus preaching is this; I too am a son of man who needs to bring an unbeliever to Christ for initial salvation of his spirit. And then mentor him in discipleship.


The teaching about the lost is about Christians, “His sheep”, who have become lost through sin.


He taught His disciples to go after them and restore them back to God.


James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



JLB
 
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JLB777

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I agree with James. What I don't agree with, is you believing that the salvation that YOU/I are 'saving a soul from death and COVERING a multitude of sins', is talking about the salvation of your spirit which GETS you into heaven by virtue of being 'spirit' BORN AGAIN into the family of "GOD who IS SPIRIT" (Joh 4:24).

James says it as plain as day -


Saves a soul from death.

If your soul perishes it’s eternal.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


If a brother should wander away from the truth and become lost, he must turn back to God, (repent), or his soul will be lost.



JLB
 
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JLB777

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Then let me ask you! If bewing saved is being born again- what happens in your theology when a believer supposedly becomes lost?

Are they still born again or not??

Being born again, means we are born of God, and are now son of God.


The prodigal son, was still his father’s son, but was lost, in which he had to repent and return to him to be reconciled, or restored back to relationship with him, or remain lost.


When we are born again, and filled with His Spirit, we now have the ability to do what we could not, before we received a new nature, that is empowered by His Spirit.


We who are born again and have received the Holy Spirit, now have the ability to live our lives out of the born again new nature, in which we can be led by the Spirit rather than be led by the lustful desires of our flesh.


Now, we must make the choice to invest ourselves towards the things of the Spirit, rather than the things of the flesh, so that we can live in dominion over our flesh.


If we choose to live according to the flesh,(sin) rather than living our lives according to the Spirit, (righteousness) then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.


again



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1




again



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13



  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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Then let me ask you! If bewing saved is being born again- what happens in your theology when a believer supposedly becomes lost?

Are they still born again or not??


Is Lucifer still a son of God?



Are the angels who sinned during the days of Noah, and were cast into hell, still sons of God?


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4



JLB
 
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Dave L

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1 Corinthians 1:2. Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:...10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Serious divisions didn't exist until the 1800s and especially the 1900s with the emergence of Pentecostalism. And the "superior quality" of those believing it when compared to run of the mill Christians who didn't buy into it.
 
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Hillsage

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James says it as plain as day -


Saves a soul from death.
I agree with James and have proven why it supports my theology. You obviously don't understand what James...and I...are talking about, as I already explained because you haven yet to refute one point of my position.

If your soul perishes it’s eternal.
Not scriptural, souls don't "perish" and your definition of "eternal" isn't in many bibles written by scholars who wrote 'pursuing the truth, wherever it led' and not as the "false scribes" who defended their brainwashed indoctrinated POV "twisting the scriptures" even as SCRIPTURE warns us of. Give me one verse supporting your 'souls perish' opinion'.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
"soul Death" yes, I UNDERSTAND and agree with James. And even Paul said "I die daily". So, did his body, soul or spirit DIE DAILY?

1CO 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Unpack your theological box concerning what I've just asked . Because your position just makes it sound like Paul himself couldn't have been saved either, because HE confessed to BEING "a sinner; of whom I am chief." And the Greek word 'eimi' translated as "AM" is morphologically a VERB/PRESENT TENSE.

So he obviously didn't have ETERNAL LIFE if he died daily.
If a brother should wander away from the truth and become lost, he must turn back to God, (repent), or his soul will be lost.
Your opinion based upon your exegesis and now, proof of a poor understanding of what the definition of 'repent' even means. :(
 
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nolidad

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Being born again, means we are born of God, and are now son of God.


The prodigal son, was still his father’s son, but was lost, in which he had to repent and return to him to be reconciled, or restored back to relationship with him, or remain lost.


When we are born again, and filled with His Spirit, we now have the ability to do what we could not, before we received a new nature, that is empowered by His Spirit.


We who are born again and have received the Holy Spirit, now have the ability to live our lives out of the born again new nature, in which we can be led by the Spirit rather than be led by the lustful desires of our flesh.


Now, we must make the choice to invest ourselves towards the things of the Spirit, rather than the things of the flesh, so that we can live in dominion over our flesh.


If we choose to live according to the flesh,(sin) rather than living our lives according to the Spirit, (righteousness) then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.


again



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1




again



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13



  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.




JLB

With all this you still did not answer the simple question? In your doctrine, if a person whop sins X times enough to lose their salvation- are they still born of the Spirit (born again John 3:17 anew creature 2 Cor. 5, translated out of the kingdom of darkness) or not???

And if they are still born again or a child of God- why do you not simply call them a disobedient child instead of a non child??? If a person can be lost- they are no longer a child of God!
 
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nolidad

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Is Lucifer still a son of God?



Are the angels who sinned during the days of Noah, and were cast into hell, still sons of God?


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

No, No, NO They were not made in the image of God nor remade (Born Again) and sealed with the Holy Spirit until teh day of redemption!

Even in Job Satan is differentiated from the Bene'Elohim.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Serious divisions didn't exist until the 1800s and especially the 1900s with the emergence of Pentecostalism. And the "superior quality" of those believing it when compared to run of the mill Christians who didn't buy into it.
There were divisions in the early church as we read in scripture and all through church history. i think of the Catholic and protestant divisions for starters.
 
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Dave L

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There were divisions in the early church as we read in scripture and all through church history. i think of the Catholic and protestant divisions for starters.
The ecumenical creeds defined and unified the church. The churches moved away from these culminating in the Reformation. But the real divisions began in the 1800s with Dispensationalism and Pentecostalism in the 1900s.
 
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JLB777

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as I already explained because you haven yet to refute one point of my position.


The scriptures plainly teach us the truth.


If we remain in Him, we have eternal life.

If we do not remain in Him, we will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Him”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB
 
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JLB777

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With all this you still did not answer the simple question? In your doctrine, if a person whop sins X times enough to lose their salvation- are they still born of the Spirit (born again John 3:17 anew creature 2 Cor. 5, translated out of the kingdom of darkness) or not???

And if they are still born again or a child of God- why do you not simply call them a disobedient child instead of a non child??? If a person can be lost- they are no longer a child of God!


I never called anyone a non child.


You continue to make up lies about me and What I’ve said.

Why?


If we remain in Him, we have eternal life.

If we do not remain in Him, we will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Him”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB
 
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JLB777

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No, No, NO They were not made in the image of God nor remade (Born Again) and sealed with the Holy Spirit until teh day of redemption!

Even in Job Satan is differentiated from the Bene'Elohim.


You err, not knowing the scriptures.


Born again or born of God means you are a son of God.

Angels are sons of God.


If we are counted worthy to obtain the resurrection of life we will be like the angels as sons of God.


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36





JLB
 
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LoveofTruth

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The ecumenical creeds defined and unified the church. The churches moved away from these culminating in the Reformation. But the real divisions began in the 1800s with Dispensationalism and Pentecostalism in the 1900s.
It’s when you use the words”real divisions” that is just your opinion all division is still division and we see this in the early church all through history and today. Yes, in the last days wickedness will increase and many false Christ shall come. But there has been division that had to be addressed in the early church as Paul division 1 Corinthians.

Some examples of division in the early church,

1 Corinthians 11:18. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.19. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”

Romans 16:17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”

1 Corinthians 3:3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?”
 
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