Did we miss our turn somewhere?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 14, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
That is where Futurists do err.

There is both Land and Sea.

If Jesus would have meant the whole global world, He would have used the Greek word G2889, but instead, the Greek word G1093 is used.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

1093. ge contracted from a primary word;
soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

That aside, let's look at the word G2875 used in Reve 1:7.

Matthew 26:63-64 "..ye shall be seeing the Son of Man coming on clouds of heaven..."

Revelation 1:7
Behold! He doth come with the clouds, and see Him shall every eye, even those who did pierce Him,
and wail<2875> because of Him shall all the Tribes of the land<1093>. Yes! Amen!
=======================
2875. kopto a primary verb;
to "chop"; specially, to beat the breast in grief:--cut down, lament, mourn, (be-)wail. Compare the base of 5114.
G2875 κόπτω (koptō), occurs 10 times in 8 verses

Mat 11:17
“and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, And you did not dance;
We mourned to you, And you did not lament.’
Mat 21:8
And a very great multitude spread their clothes on the road; others cut down branches from the trees and spread them on the road.
Mat 24:30
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mar 11:8
And many spread their clothes on the road, and others cut down leafy branches from the trees and spread them on the road.

Luk 8:52
Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.”
Luk 23:27
And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him.

Rev 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Behold! It is used in conjunction with the great City of 1st century 70ad Jerusalem! Amen!

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:9

“The kings of the land who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with Her will weep and lament<2875> over Her, when they see the smoke of Her burning,
===============================
Matthew 24:30 | Study Archive

Matthew 24:30

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Thomas Newton (1754)
"Our Saviour proceedeth in the same figurative style, ver. 30 - ' And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.'

The plain meaning of it is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will be led from thence to acknowledge Christ and the Christian religion. In the ancient prophets, God is frequently described as coming in the 'clouds' upon any remarkable interposition and manifestation of his power; and the same description is here applied to Christ.

The destruction of Jerusalem will be as ample a manifestation of Christ's power and glory as if he was himself to come visibly in the clouds of heaven." (ibid., p. 408-409)

Berean Tim said:
Strong's Concordance

gé: the earth, land

Original Word: γῆ, γῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: gé
Phonetic Spelling: (ghay)
Definition: the earth, land
Usage: the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region.

HELPS Word-studies

1093 gḗ –properly, the physical earth; (figuratively) the "arena" we live in which operates in space and time which God uses to prepare us for eternity.

The physical earth (1093 /gḗ)is the temporary, probationary place to live out moral preferences "through the body," i.e. as free moral agents (cf. 2 Cor 5:1-10). In this way, God makes an eternal record of everything we do on the earth. Through faith, each scene of life becomes equally, eternally significant (cf. Mt 13:31,32,17:20; cf. also Lk 16:10; Lk 17:6; 2 Pet 1:1).

[The OT Hebrew term, 776 /asitía ("earth"), also refers to the physical earth as "God's arena" – "the physical theater" in which our eternal destiny freely plays out.]
1093 means physical earth - All translations I look at translate Matthew 24:30 (earth )

2889 means world Kosmos
Strong's Concordance
kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Definition: order, the world
Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.
HELPS Word-studies
2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world.

[The English term "cosmetic" is derived from 2889 /kósmos, i.e. the order("ensemble") used of treating the face as a whole.]

Thank you for proving my case for 70AD Judea/Jerusalem fulfillment..............

Berean Tim · Sep 14, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Thank you for proving my case for 70AD Judea/Jerusalem fulfillment..............

Not sure how I did that ! but your welcome lol

Dave L · Sep 15, 2019

Berean Tim said:
How do you know the chain is symbol of the gospel. Where does that come from ?

“THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” (Revelation 1:1)

“And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.” (Acts 11:28)

“And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.” (Revelation 15:1)

“And there appeared a great wonder [sign] in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.” (Revelation 12:1–2)

“And there appeared another wonder [sign] in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” (Revelation 12:3)

“And he doeth great wonders [signs], so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,” (Revelation 13:13)

“And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” (Revelation 13:14)

“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles [signs], which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14)

“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles [signs] before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.” (Revelation 19:20)

signified

■ noun Linguistics the meaning or idea expressed by a sign, as distinct from the physical form in which it is expressed.

Soanes, C., & Stevenson, A. (Eds.). (2004). Concise Oxford English dictionary (11th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Dave L · Sep 15, 2019

nolidad said:
Well when we wish to redefine terms we can make scripture say anything.

But Peter and Paul witness against this covenant allegorical opinion.

Does the gospel prevent Satan from deceiving people? If so, it explains the symbolic chain that binds him.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 15, 2019

Dave L said: ↑
The chain is a symbol of the Gospel. Physical chains cannot bind spirits. Is the Red Dragon literal too?

Hello Dave. Interesting view and that appears to be plausible.
While translating the 7 seals awhile back, I noticed this Greek word G2218.
What is your view of Reve 6:5 and the scales/balances/yoke?

The SEVEN SEALS of Revelation study

G2218. zugos from the root of zeugnumi
(to join, especially by a "yoke"); a coupling, i.e. (figuratively) servitude (a law or obligation); also (literally) the beam of the balance (as connecting the scales):--pair of balances, yoke
G2218 ζυγός (zygos) occurs 6 times in 6 verses

Revelation 6:
5 And when it opens up the third seal, I hear of the third living one saying "Be coming"! And I am looking and behold! A black horse!
and the one sitting down upon it having a Yoke/Balances/Scales<2218> in the hand of him.
6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barley a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".
==========================
That word is rendered as "yoke" is 5 of 6 verses it is used in, however only in Reve 6 is it rendered as "scales" or "balances" in Bible versions.
[Verse 6 denotes the famine that occurred during the Roman siege of 1st century Jerusalem.......]
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal

===============================
1 OT verse that stands out is this verse:

Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which Yahweh shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things,
he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. [Acts 15:10/Revelation 6:5]

Acts 15:10
Now then why are ye trying the God, to put a yoke<2218> upon the Neck of the Disciples, which neither the fathers of us nor we are able to bear?
------------------------------
Some commentaries:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(5, 6) When He had opened.--Better, When he opened. The words "and see" are to be omitted here, as in the other seals. And I saw, and behold a horse, black, and he that sat on him having a balance in his hand. And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living beings, saying, A choenix of wheat for a denarius (penny), and three choenixes of barley for a denarius (penny), and the oil and the wine do thou not hurt. "Balance:"
There is scarcely a doubt that a balance, or pair of scales, is intended (the Greek word also means a yoke); but the whole imagery of the seal harmonises with the balance, and the passage from Ezekiel (Ezekiel 45:10), cited by Alford, in which there is a "righteous balance" (the LXX. using the same Greek word as here) seems conclusive. It is the emblem of scarcity: food is not weighed out thus in times of abundance. (Comp. Ezekiel 4:16, "Behold I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem, and they shall eat bread by weight and with care.") The choenix ("measure" in English version) was the amount of food sufficient to support a man for a day.
======================
Pulpit Commentary
This affliction may happen concurrently with, or antecedent to, or subsequent to, any of those trials denoted by the other visions, and even the victorious career of the Church as foretold under the first seal; for by suffering the Church conquers and is made perfect. And he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. Ζυγός is rightly rendered "a balance," as in Ezekiel 45:10; not (as it primarily meant) a "yoke." The idea intended to be conveyed is that of scarcity so great that food is weighed carefully as something very rare and precious, though there is not yet a complete absence of food.

Dave L · Sep 15, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello Dave. Interesting view and that appears to be plausible.
While translating the 7 seals awhile back, I noticed this Greek word G2218.
What is your view of Reve 6:5 and the scales/balances/yoke?

The SEVEN SEALS of Revelation study

G2218. zugos from the root of zeugnumi
(to join, especially by a "yoke"); a coupling, i.e. (figuratively) servitude (a law or obligation); also (literally) the beam of the balance (as connecting the scales):--pair of balances, yoke
G2218 ζυγός (zygos) occurs 6 times in 6 verses

Revelation 6:
5 And when it opens up the third seal, I hear of the third living one saying "Be coming"! And I am looking and behold! A black horse!
and the one sitting down upon it having a Yoke/Balances/Scales<2218> in the hand of him. [Deut 28:18/Acts 15:10]
6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barley a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

That word is rendered as "yoke" is 5 of 6 verses it is used in, however only in Reve 6 is it rendered as "scales" or "balances" in Bible versions.
[Verse 6 denotes the famine that occurred during the Roman siege of 1st century Jerusalem.......]
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

===============================
1 OT verse that stands out is this verse:

Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which Yahweh shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things,
he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. [Acts 15:10/Revelation 6:5]
------------------------------
Some commentaries:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(5, 6) When He had opened.--Better, When he opened. The words "and see" are to be omitted here, as in the other seals. And I saw, and behold a horse, black, and he that sat on him having a balance in his hand. And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living beings, saying, A choenix of wheat for a denarius (penny), and three choenixes of barley for a denarius (penny), and the oil and the wine do thou not hurt. "Balance:"
There is scarcely a doubt that a balance, or pair of scales, is intended (the Greek word also means a yoke); but the whole imagery of the seal harmonises with the balance, and the passage from Ezekiel (Ezekiel 45:10), cited by Alford, in which there is a "righteous balance" (the LXX. using the same Greek word as here) seems conclusive. It is the emblem of scarcity: food is not weighed out thus in times of abundance. (Comp. Ezekiel 4:16, "Behold I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem, and they shall eat bread by weight and with care.") The choenix ("measure" in English version) was the amount of food sufficient to support a man for a day.
======================
Pulpit Commentary
This affliction may happen concurrently with, or antecedent to, or subsequent to, any of those trials denoted by the other visions, and even the victorious career of the Church as foretold under the first seal; for by suffering the Church conquers and is made perfect. And he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. Ζυγός is rightly rendered "a balance," as in Ezekiel 45:10; not (as it primarily meant) a "yoke." The idea intended to be conveyed is that of scarcity so great that food is weighed carefully as something very rare and precious, though there is not yet a complete absence of food.

Verse 5
g. This signifieth an extreme famine, and want of all things.

Verse 6
h. The Greke worde signifieth that measure which was ordinarily given to servants for their portion or stint of meate for one day.
i. Which amoūted about foure pence halfe penie.

Geneva Bible: Notes. (1560). (Vol. 2, p. 116). Geneva: Rovland Hall.

I think these notes accurately describe the scales (balances yoke). All having been poured out and being poured out as well as in the future.

nolidad · Sep 15, 2019

BABerean2 said:
A description of the gathering of the Church is found at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, and the timing is found at the beginning of chapter 5.
The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove the two chapters are connected.
There is no trip back to heaven in the passage.

No they don't in the least. IN 4 Paul is talking about the snatching of the church off the earth, and in 5 he is talking about the Day of the Lord which is the 70th week of Daniel!

Sleep in 4 is the dead bodies in the ground.
Sleep in 5 is being spiritually asleep. Just look at the context!
5 is wrath, 4 is an event that Paul says to comfort each other with. They are opposite things.

BABerean2 said:
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

Not a very veiled insult to all dispensationalists and those who hold to a literal/historical/grammatical hermeneutic instead of an allegorical interpretation.

But you can believe any whacky, mid trib, post trib, no rapture hypothesis you wish, but when the trumpewt soundfds pre-trib- we who have been biblically sound will welcome you just the same!

nolidad · Sep 15, 2019

Dave L said:
Does the gospel prevent Satan from deceiving people? If so, it explains the symbolic chain that binds him.

People are decieved all the time! by Satan and demons!

2 Cor. 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Eph. 6:

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 Peter 5:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

And it is you not I nor the scriptures that say those bindings are symbolic!

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Maybe you think the bottomless pit is symbolic as well and no one goes to teh lake of fire ever!

Why should I believe your symbolisms are more authoritative than the Catholic ones, or the Mormon ones or the Watchtower ones or some of the writers who said they had the real explanation of Revelation and allegorized things away like you do?

BABerean2 · Sep 15, 2019

nolidad said:
Sleep in 5 is being spiritually asleep. Just look at the context!

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

What part of the verse above does not include the Apostle Paul and the rest of the Church?

Do you think the Apostle Paul is spiritually asleep?

What part of chapter 5 shows those who are spiritually asleep to be a part of the Church? Do you know the difference between "they" and "us", and "we", and "ye", and "you"?

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

.

Dave L · Sep 16, 2019

nolidad said:
People are decieved all the time! by Satan and demons!

2 Cor. 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Eph. 6:

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 Peter 5:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

And it is you not I nor the scriptures that say those bindings are symbolic!

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Maybe you think the bottomless pit is symbolic as well and no one goes to teh lake of fire ever!

Why should I believe your symbolisms are more authoritative than the Catholic ones, or the Mormon ones or the Watchtower ones or some of the writers who said they had the real explanation of Revelation and allegorized things away like you do?

Does Satan deceive those who believe he gospel?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 16, 2019

nolidad said: ↑
People are decieved all the time! by Satan and demons!
2 Cor. 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Eph. 6:
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 Peter 5:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

And it is you not I nor the scriptures that say those bindings are symbolic!

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Maybe you think the bottomless pit is symbolic as well and no one goes to teh lake of fire ever!

Why should I believe your symbolisms are more authoritative than the Catholic ones, or the Mormon ones or the Watchtower ones or some of the writers who said they had the real explanation of Revelation and allegorized things away like you do?

Dave L said:
Does Satan deceive those who believe he gospel?

He at-tempts to...............

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

4105. planao from 4106;
to (properly, cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue):--go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
STRONGS NT 4105: πλανάω
πλανάω, πλανῶ; future πλανήσω; 1 aorist ἐπλάνησα; passive, present πλανωμαι; perfect πεπλάνημαι; 1 aorist ἐπλανήθην; (πλάνη);
from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; the Sept. for הִתְעָה; to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the rigid way;

a. properly; in passive, the Sept. chiefly for תָּעָה, to go astray, wander, roam about (first so in Homer, Iliad 23, 321): Matthew 18:12; 1 Peter 2:25 (from Isaiah 53:6, cf. Exodus 23:4; Psalm 118:176 (Ps. 119:176); Hebrews 11:38.
b. metaphorically, to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive: τινα, Matthew 24:4, 5, 11, 24; Mark 13:5, 6; John 7:12; 1 John 2:26; 1 John 3:7; 2 Timothy 3:13a; Revelation 2:20 G L T Tr WH; Revelation 12:9; 13:14; 19:20; 20:3,8,10; ἑαυτόν, 1 John 1:8; passive, to be led into error (R. V. be led astray): Luke 21:8; John 7:47; Revelation 2:20 Rec.; to err, Matthew 22:29; Mark 12:24, 27; μή πλανᾶσθε, 1 Corinthians 11:9; 1 Corinthians 15:33; Galatians 6:7; James 1:16; especially through ignorance to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin: Titus 3:3; Hebrews 5:2; τῇ καρδία, Hebrews 3:10; ἀπό τῆς ἀληθείας, James 5:19; to wander or fall away from the true faith, of heretics, 2 Timothy 3:13b; 2 Peter 2:15;
to be led away into error and sin, Revelation 18:23. (Compare: ἀποπλανάω.)

G4105 πλανάω (planaō), occurs 51 times in 37 verses
====================================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 23:23-25 False christs and prophets--deceive the elect if possible

Matthew 24:24
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:22
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Luke 21:8
And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.
==========================
Used in 8 verses of Revelation:

Rev 2:20
“Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman/wife Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and deceive My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Rev 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:14
And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Jerusalem 70AD

Rev 18:23
“The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
================
Rev 19:20
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:3
and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Rev 20:8
and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[fn] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
=======================
Revelation 2:10 "tribulation 10 days"

Revelation 2:10
No yet one thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison<5438>, that ye may be being tried<3985>.
And ye shall be having Tribulation<2347> of ten days,
Be thou becoming faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the Crown of the Life.

nolidad · Sep 16, 2019

BABerean2 said:
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

What part of the verse above does not include the Apostle Paul and the rest of the Church?

Do you think the Apostle Paul is spiritually asleep?

What part of chapter 5 shows those who are spiritually asleep to be a part of the Church? Do you know the difference between "they" and "us", and "we", and "ye", and "you"?

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

.

Read verses 4-8!

Chapter 4 speaks of the sleep of death and Chapter 5 speaks of being asleep spiritually. I never said the church or Paul were spiritually asleep.

nolidad · Sep 16, 2019

Dave L said:
Does Satan deceive those who believe he gospel?

Yes even the saints can be deceived by him. Otherwise the warnings by Paul and Peter to the saints would be stupid and retarded if he couldn't

BABerean2 · Sep 16, 2019

nolidad said:
Chapter 5 speaks of being asleep spiritually. I never said the church or Paul were spiritually asleep.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

.

Dave L · Sep 17, 2019

nolidad said:
Yes even the saints can be deceived by him. Otherwise the warnings by Paul and Peter to the saints would be stupid and retarded if he couldn't

You either believe the true gospel....what we are talking about. Or a false gospel, popular today now that Satan is loosed.

nolidad · Sep 17, 2019

Dave L said:
You either believe the true gospel....what we are talking about. Or a false gospel, popular today now that Satan is loosed.

So you believe the new covenant age is over now? YOu believe the church is no longer preaching the gospel? WOW!

So you believe that the lies of the dark ages and the sect that ruled from the 4th-15th century was the high period of the church?

Well I wonder what you call the true gospel? Most of what you presented here is not part of that true gospel. Amillenialism with its emphasis on allegorical interpretations has shown its failure.

It led the church into the dark ages and has allowed all sorts of cults to arise with their opinions as to what the Scriptures mean.

BABerean2 · Sep 17, 2019

nolidad said:
It led the church into the dark ages and has allowed all sorts of cults to arise with their opinions as to what the Scriptures mean.

Actually, there are more cults built around the premill doctrine...

.

Dave L · Sep 18, 2019

nolidad said:
So you believe the new covenant age is over now? YOu believe the church is no longer preaching the gospel? WOW!

So you believe that the lies of the dark ages and the sect that ruled from the 4th-15th century was the high period of the church?

Well I wonder what you call the true gospel? Most of what you presented here is not part of that true gospel. Amillenialism with its emphasis on allegorical interpretations has shown its failure.

It led the church into the dark ages and has allowed all sorts of cults to arise with their opinions as to what the Scriptures mean.

If Christ's return is imminent, then Satan is loosed according to Revelation 20. We can question the truthfulness of today's popular gospel. But we can be assured that the true gospel will be preached until the last day.

nolidad · Sep 18, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Actually, there are more cults built around the premill doctrine...

.

Then you are unfamiliar with Church history!

Millennial and post millenial thought is held by the majority of Christendom. a pre-mil, pre-trib, rapture of the church is held by a fairly small minority in Christendom.
Almost all that do hold the view also hold to a literal, historical, grammatical, hermeneutic.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 18, 2019

Dave L said:
Why is it most still look for the visions of Revelation to be fulfilled in the distant future?

Most people I know, and most people I know about, everywhere,
are not looking for any visions of Revelation , nor from any Scripture, to be fulfilled.

Did we miss our turn somewhere?

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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