Jesus Christ Truly God Truly man (human)

Jesus is Truly God and Truly man (human)

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 93.5%
  • No

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
    46
Status
Not open for further replies.

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I’m encouraged brother @His student is asking questions as are many others. I was hoping this would be a productive and informative thread and for the most part it has been.
For the record - I am not asking nor do I have any questions concerning Jesus Christ being fully God and fully man. I settled that in my heart well over 60 years ago and have not budged one theological inch on the matter.

Any questions I may have posited regarding the Trinity has nothing to do with that issue. They have to do with whether the scriptures teach that there has always been a Father/Son/Holy Spirit relationship between three distinct persons within the Godhead or whether the Father/Son relationship only came into being with the incarnation (as in "Thou art My Son - today I have begotten Thee" vs. the Son being "eternally begotten of the Father" as per the Nicene Creed.


......... There are a lot of brothers and sisters in Christ who did not grow up in the Faith and as adults join churches which may not have a detailed statement of faith, do not affirm the ancient creeds (Church of Christ Restoration movement) and perhaps those who identify as “non-denominational.
I received Christ at the age of 12 and have never been a member of a church which did not have a detailed statement of faith.

I have been a member of a church that did not officially identify with any particular denomination however.
It was my hope this thread would be a help to introduce the Christology our forebears contended their all to defend.
No need in my case.

I only contend that even the creeds should have the light of the scriptures shown on them from time to time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

MournfulWatcher

In the beginning was the Word.
Feb 15, 2016
392
444
United States
✟110,673.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Angel of the Lord is a title for an angel. You are being silly, it's hard to take you seriously when you can't accept something as straight-forward as Hebrews 1.
Tough talk coming from someone who denies the Trinity. You're espousing heretical beliefs outside the realm of Christendom, and I can see why. You have too simplistic understanding of scripture and theology.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,009
Flyoverland
✟1,224,061.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
I’m encouraged brother @His student is asking questions as are many others. I was hoping this would be a productive and informative thread and for the most part it has been.

For Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran and Reformed churches the creeds are reflected in the various catechisms and confessions and taught in Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD) and Sunday Schools to children from an early age. The discipline has also reached many Bible churches at least I can speak of the ones associated with the Reformed Baptists.

There are a lot of brothers and sisters in Christ who did not grow up in the Faith and as adults join churches which may not have a detailed statement of faith, do not affirm the ancient creeds (Church of Christ Restoration movement) and perhaps those who identify as “non-denominational.

It was my hope this thread would be a help to introduce the Christology our forebears contended their all to defend.
Yes, I think it has been productive. For some people these questions are brand new. People who can recon with what generations of other Christians have believed for almost two millenia. I think many put their reading of Scripture as the only true interpretation, over that of their elders. It's surprising how the old heresies reinvent themselves.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,009
Flyoverland
✟1,224,061.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
So you are in opposition to traditional churches which ordain homosexuals and marry same sex couples?
They depart from Tradition to do that. They might still maintain some orthodoxy in their christology, but I'm not to sure about even that.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,009
Flyoverland
✟1,224,061.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
So was transubstantiation, papal authority, and the veneration of relics - right?
Pretty much yes. But we had been discussing christology here. Do you really want to turn it into an anti-Catholic gripe? Lots of people would jump at the chance. But it would be the loss of an otherwise great discussion.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Athanasius377
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The position being argued for is the heresy of Socinianism which is basically a tweaking of Arianism. Which I might add was rejected by Luther, Calvin and Zwingli. @redleghunter gave a good response which Rome and and the East agree. Assume Unitarianism and this is where one winds up. Of course it cannot answer Col 2:9. Nor will it try. Somehow fullness means something other than fullness.
I assume that "the position being argued" refers to me and my posts. I assure you that I do not subscribe to the tenets of so called Socinianism nor have I any need to “tweak” the heresy of Arianism in order to ascertain what the scripture do and do not say about the nature of God.

I do not deny the Trinity. I only say that there is at least one other way to legitimately see these matters. I.e. – views other than strict Trinitarianism should not automatically be pigeonholed as heretical.

I do not deny nor have I ever denied the full divinity of Jesus Christ, the personality of the Devil, the total depravity of man, the vicarious atonement, the scriptures as the literal Word of God, nor an eternal future punishment – all of which are tenets of Socinianism.


I do not deny that the Logos of God mentioned at the beginning of the gospel of John was incarnate in Jesus. I only question whether the eternal Logos of God is rightly defined as an eternal “God the Son Person” living within the Godhead with a “God the Father Person” and a “God the Holy Spirit Person”.

Colossians 2:9 says, “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” – which I can address quite directly.

That the “fullness” of deity was incarnate in Jesus Christ is exactly what I believe.

On the other hand - that only an alleged eternal “God the Son Person” and not the fullness of deity was incarnate in Jesus Christ is exactly what Trinitarians teach.

You are quite right in saying that “somehow fullness means something other than fullness”. But you are wrong if you think it’s the case for me rather than Trinitarians.
 
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you really want to turn it into an anti-Catholic gripe?
No I don't.

But you tell me that because the church has mostly believed certain things for over a thousand years - I am "reinventing" them to even question them at this time. Shades of Catholicism both West and East - and I didn't introduce it.

Please don't tell me how "these things" were solved by the church well over a thousand years ago and that anyone questioning their conclusion is "reinventing" the doctrines.

The questions surrounding the doctrines were "invented" by the Holy Spirit when He wrote the scriptures which we must appeal to when considering any doctrine in the manner He wrote them.
But it would be the loss of an otherwise great discussion.
I fully agree.

Let's drop it then and agree that neither the creeds nor the opinions of the church fathers nor any current church leaders are on a par with the scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,009
Flyoverland
✟1,224,061.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Let's drop it then and agree that neither the creeds nor the opinions of the church fathers nor any current church leaders are on a par with the scriptures.
Nothing is on a par with the Scriptures. Not your interpretation nor my interpretation. I however do respect the cumulative interpretations of millions of faithful Christians over almost 2000 years. I don't pretend to be better than them with me sitting there with a Bible alone. I already get it you disagree.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

St. Helens

I stand with Israel
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
CF Staff Trainer
Supporter
Jul 24, 2007
59,024
9,668
Lower Slower Minnesota
✟1,216,969.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
MOD HAT ON
Thread closed permanently.
Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.