new world order

dlamberth said:

My own macro view is that the actions of the followers of a religion reflects the teachings of that religion.

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that's just not realistic to me. people are gonna people.

Jesus' teachings on love and stuff were good micro teachings. important on a day to day level, but ultimately, not the final goal.

Noxot said:

But maybe the capitalists have a point, maybe technology will get us through this mess.

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i think tech is our best chance as a species, so best to keep the tech industry going and the money moving.

Some of the things that Jesus says to do I find incredibly hard. To love people that hate me is not something that I desire at all. I prefer isolation and separation from Evil doers so that compatible good people can coexist in peace.

So yeah for a lot of us Christians we're going to naturally have shame because we can't live up to the high standards of Jesus. That is a sin problem which is a fundamental Doctrine in our religion.

Where the religion is at plays a huge role as well and all religions are in this world. There are never ending arguments over how to best function in a world that is full of Good and Evil. Laws are like the middle ground and often sway to good and then to evil. Evil corrupts and makes everything worse than it could otherwise be. I have no desire to exist with outside evils. I admit it's easier to exist with my own evils, if I have any. I can't decide if I'm evil or not for wanting things like isolation and self-development.

being an anarchist makes me feel that there is much more evils in the world then a statist would suppose. People take for granted that forcing others to play all these various games is not very kind to people like me. But like I said that is why isolation is a high ideal to me. I don't want to be punished for other bad people killing people with guns. maybe I want a gun so that I can do something good in the world for myself. I don't want to have to ask for permission to be free and to live.

TheOldWays said:

that's just not realistic to me. people are gonna people.

Jesus' teachings on love and stuff were good micro teachings. important on a day to day level, but ultimately, not the final goal.

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I think it depends upon what one thinks the final goal is. I know you'll strongly disagree, but I believe the main message of Jesus was teaching us how to be a more fully human, Human Being. He certainly spent most of His earthly ministry teaching that very thing. But also, I guess to go along with that, I firmly believe in evolution, in this case the evolution of Human consciousness which I tie directly to Jesus's teaching in how to be a more fully human, Human Being.

dlamberth said:

I think it depends upon what one thinks the final goal is. I know you'll strongly disagree, but I believe the main message of Jesus was teaching us how to be a more fully human, Human Being. He certainly spent most of His earthly ministry teaching that very thing. But also, I guess to go along with that, I firmly believe in evolution, in this case the evolution of Human consciousness which I tie directly to Jesus's teaching in how to be a more fully human, Human Being.

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ya who knows.

definitely all for the evolution of the human consciousness.

Zoness said:

It's funny I recently stumbled on a chart that elucidates how ridiculous Pascal's Wager is in practice, I share it now to the benefit of onlookers:

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** Cough!!! **

Existential excellence destroys Pascal's wager. But I never read the book on it so maybe his wager has more substance than I believe it does. It sounds like a "might makes right" thing but my vision of God has far more might than a god of threats. It also sounds appealing to shiesty rat-like peoples.

2PhiloVoid said:

** Cough!!! **

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Hi friend

miggles said:

i hope this is in the right category.

do you believe the devil is working toward a new world order where Christianity is wiped out?

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I'd say that's the old world order, it's what we have always had already. And it's what Christ overcame, defeated. Christ overcame the ancient kingdom and has overthrown the devil, and now being raised from the dead, ascended, and seated at the right hand of God the Father lives and reigns. The "new world order" is Christ's, it's God's kingdom, which is now in part which we share in through faith, and on the Last Day in full, when Christ returns and God heals and makes all things new.

"He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Colossians 1:13-14

"And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him." - Colossians 2:13-15

"Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery." - Hebrews 2:14-15

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." - Ephesians 2:4-7

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death." - 1 Corinthians 15:24-25

"And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.'" - Matthew 28:18

"Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." - Revelatoin 1:17b-18

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.'

And he who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new.'" - Revelation 21:1-5a

-CryptoLutheran

Noxot said:

To love people that hate me is not something that I desire at all. I prefer isolation and separation from Evil doers so that compatible good people can coexist in peace.

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I don’t think that means we should place the viper in our bosom. Prayer is the loving response.

Exclusion is appropriate until the individual repents and walks in subjection to God. Bad company corrupts good morals and is best avoided.

Noxot said:

Some of the things that Jesus says to do I find incredibly hard. To love people that hate me is not something that I desire at all. I prefer isolation and separation from Evil doers so that compatible good people can coexist in peace.

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i think it's more about letting go and not letting your enemies live 'rent free' in your head. if you forgive them you are helping yourself. it's not that you have to invite them for dinner and a movie.

I do believe there are Globalists/Socialists who want to destroy national, religious and ethnic barriers to lay a foundation for a united world under one system. It's their vision of Utopia. They are the types of people who seem to think borders are a crime against humanity and I wouldn't be surprised if Satan is using them. Satan uses a lot of people mind you.

As for wiping out Christianity. Any force seeking a one world government wants to do away with conservative Christianity, those forms of the faith which actually adhere to what the Bible and Christ said. Liberal Christianity, which takes the shape of the many mainline Protestant Churches, is perfectly acceptable to these people because it doesn't discriminate between non-believer and believer. Liberal Christianity doesn't insist on becoming a follower of Christ to be one with Christ.

I think we're ways away from a One world government. Too many competing interests to allow for the possibility of a One world government in our life times.

I honestly don't know who these "globalists" and "socialists" who want to create a one world system are. This seems to mostly be paranoid buzz words from the Right who want to engender fear as a means to keep people afraid.

The corporate oligarchs who like maintaining their power are very good using their puppets to instill fear in the populace. Universal healthcare is a good thing that would benefit everyone, but it's "bad" because "scary socialism" boogity-boogity-boo. It's "bad" because it means the rich and powerful won't get to line their pockets with the blood money they have extorted from the most vulnerable.

As a Christian I don't see how I can align myself with the powers and principalities, with Caesar, Herod, and Pilate against my neighbor.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And love your neighbor as yourself."
"Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God."
"The greatest among you is your slave."
"But I tell you to love your enemies."

-CryptoLutheran

I don't believe using any Kingdom of Caesar to bring about the kingdom of heaven. When men speak of charity it is often because love is cold and dead.

<staff edit>

Well,
should we not concentrate on the ones behind it and not it,s followers?

People will follow anyone or anything.

I think it is more about chaos than order.

Haha it is enough to get anyone bent out of shape, haha.


Edit,
not so funny really but while thinking about the word "order"
it came to me
uninvited a clip I had seen some while ago,

and the word "order!" kept ringing in my ear,

Which I found pretty amusing.

TheOldWays said:

that's just not realistic to me. people are gonna people.

Jesus' teachings on love and stuff were good micro teachings. important on a day to day level, but ultimately, not the final goal.

Click to expand...

Please excuse the delay in replying, I've been on retreat for a few days.

If Love is not the goal, why than did Jesus spend so much time teaching Love?

Yes, people will be people. But to be a more complete Human Being, Love is really important stuff.

The teachings are filtered through the Church. And if the Church is teaching something other than Love, that's what will be reflected in the people.

This is one of the main reasons why I believe that first over there is Jesus and over there is Christianity, and only rarely to they cross paths.

I'm reminded of of the medieval women mystic Marguerite Porete who wrote that there are two churches. The first she called the Great Holy Church. That church preaches Love. And the other church is what she called the Little Holy Church, that church she wrote preaches rules and law and order rather than Love. Needless to say, the Little Holy Church burned Porete at the stake.

dlamberth said:

If Love is not the goal, why than did Jesus spend so much time teaching Love?

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Also, if Jesus is God, and God is Love (1 John 4:8, 16),
then Jesus is Love, and Love is going to be his primary
focus when teaching.

-

Zoness said:

Hi friend

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Hi.