Jesus Christ Truly God Truly man (human)

Jesus is Truly God and Truly man (human)

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 93.5%
  • No

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
    46
Status
Not open for further replies.

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sure it is. God's spirit with a human body is still subject to human temptations and can therefore be the Christ. Why not?
Then we are back to the Jesus “skin suit.” A human without a human soul by definition is dead.

Which is probably close to Apollinarianism: denied the true and complete humanity of Jesus, because it taught He did not have a human mind, but instead had a mind that was completely Divine. This lessened the human nature of Jesus in order to reconcile the manner in which Jesus could be both God and man at the same time.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
That is true that someone people misunderstand it. And also misunderstand why Jesus didn’t have a sin nature. I’ve heard people say if he didn’t have a sin nature then he can’t sympathize with us (Hebrews 4:15)
We have a 'human nature'. Jesus has a 'human nature' too. Same human nature. His is like the human nature of Adam before the fall. Ours is bent, like the human nature of Adam after the fall. We have the same nature. That's how he is like us in everything but sin. Ours is just bent out of shape a lot. Original sin changes the way our nature works, severely messing us up, but it does not give us a totally different nature.
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually they did not use Sola Scriptura poison. We can go round and round and you will never ever convince me of any Bible alone stuff being good. So I am not going to respond anymore and leave the thread
We sure could go round for round. So I’ll ask you why you are changing the subject on a thread I started on the Person of Christ Jesus just to throw out your divisive poison and jabs picking a fight?


When we agree on the Christology and creeds?
 
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Then we are back to the Jesus “skin suit.” A human without a human soul by definition is dead.

Which is probably close to Apollinarianism: denied the true and complete humanity of Jesus, because it taught He did not have a human mind, but instead had a mind that was completely Divine. This lessened the human nature of Jesus in order to reconcile the manner in which Jesus could be both God and man at the same time.

Yes I guess I believe that Jesus was the divine Christ. Not just Chosen, but instead always was the Christ. Given powers to be the Christ, like resurrecting himself.

So are you saying Jesus was tempted with the same manner as all of us who have failed? And had a human spirit? And why do you think that is necessary?
 
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
We have a 'human nature'. Jesus has a 'human nature' too. Same human nature. His is like the human nature of Adam before the fall. Ours is bent, like the human nature of Adam after the fall. We have the same nature. That's how he is like us in everything but sin. Ours is just bent out of shape a lot. Original sin changes the way our nature works, severely messing us up, but it does not give us a totally different nature.

I like that idea better. But I still think Jesus has a superior spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes I guess I believe that Jesus was the divine Christ. Not just Chosen, but instead always was the Christ. Given powers to be the Christ, like resurrecting himself.

So are you saying Jesus was tempted with the same manner as all of us who have failed? And had a human spirit? And why do you think that is necessary?
I think the most convincing evidence is when Jesus submitted His will to the Father’s will at Gethsemane. If He did not have a human will then the anguish He had in the garden would be God in conflict with Himself. Which cannot be.

Luke 22: NASB

39And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. 40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.
 
Upvote 0

Christ is Lord

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2019
578
410
Top Secret
✟27,506.00
Country
Virgin Islands, British
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We have a 'human nature'. Jesus has a 'human nature' too. Same human nature. His is like the human nature of Adam before the fall. Ours is bent, like the human nature of Adam after the fall. We have the same nature. That's how he is like us in everything but sin. Ours is just bent out of shape a lot. Original sin changes the way our nature works, severely messing us up, but it does not give us a totally different nature.

Totally agree. See my post: Jesus Christ Truly God Truly man (human)
 
Upvote 0

packermann

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2003
1,437
372
70
Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, IL
✟37,982.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Jesus the Christ is God and was always impeccable and incapable of sin. He's not fully human, if he was he would have sinned like all the other humans.

Humanity has nothing to with sin. If it did then Adam and Eve would not have been fully human after they sinned against God. And when Christ returns, when we no longer sin for all eternity, we would be less than human.

The sin nature (or original sin, as we Catholics call it) is not part of human nature. In fact, sin causes us to be less human.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Eccl 12:13

Actually, the word "duty" is not in the original Hebrew. According to Dr. Walt Kaiser, Old Testament scholar at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, a better translation of this would be:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the wholeness of man.

The more we refrain from sinning, the more we become fully human. And Jesus Christ became fully human. That is why He was called the Son of Man as well as the Son of God.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Then we are back to the Jesus “skin suit.” A human without a human soul by definition is dead.

Which is probably close to Apollinarianism: denied the true and complete humanity of Jesus, because it taught He did not have a human mind, but instead had a mind that was completely Divine. This lessened the human nature of Jesus in order to reconcile the manner in which Jesus could be both God and man at the same time.
Or maybe Docetism. They are similar.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I think the most convincing evidence is when Jesus submitted His will to the Father’s will at Gethsemane. If He did not have a human will then the anguish He had in the garden would be God in conflict with Himself. Which cannot be.

Luke 22: NASB

39And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. 40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.

OK but you do believe he was fully God and fully human? How is he both then?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
I like that idea better. But I still think Jesus has a superior spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45
I would say he IS a superior person. Think of the person the eternal Son of the Father is. That's who the person of Jesus is. Same person, one in being with the Father, yet that person is also a complete natural human being with feelings, emotions, desires, ideas, frustrations, hopes and dreams, a human will. Someone who prays and ponders and learns and grows. Someone whose prayers, because of who he really is, are powerful.
 
Upvote 0

devin553344

I believe in the Resurrection
Nov 10, 2015
3,607
2,249
Unkown
✟93,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Humanity has nothing to with sin. If it did then Adam and Eve would not have been fully human after they sinned against God. And when Christ returns, when we no longer sin for all eternity, we would be less than human.

The sin nature (or original sin, as we Catholics call it) is not part of human nature. In fact, sin causes us to be less human.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Eccl 12:13

Actually, the word "duty" is not in the original Hebrew. According to Dr. Walt Kaiser, Old Testament scholar at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, a better translation of this would be:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the wholeness of man.

The more we refrain from sinning, the more we become fully human. And Jesus Christ became fully human. That is why He was called the Son of Man as well as the Son of God.

Yes I like that idea. That Jesus was the last man Adam, a life giving spirit. And the fall makes us less than what we are created to be. That makes sense to me. Thank you :)
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
OK but you do believe he was fully God and fully human? How is he both then?
It's not a zero sum game. It's not like he is 30% human and 70% God for a total of 100%.

We don't have half humans, pr part humans. Humans are 100% human. Until we die, and then it's a body separate from a soul, waiting to be reunited.

God isn't split so there is a 33% Father and a 33% Son and a 33% Holy Ghost. It's one God in three persons. Which makes mathematicians of a certain bent smirk.

The technical term is hypostatic union, the integration of the entire person of the Son as a human being with ALL of the bells and whistles of humanity except for the sin.

This is what is so distinctive about the Christian faith. The Muslims simply cannot accept such things. The Jews, many of them anyhow, couldn't either. This is way different than any Hindu god-man stuff. It is unique. And this position of 100% God and 100% man is what undergirds ALL of the rest of traditional Christian theology.
 
Upvote 0

Russ Campbell

An ounce of faith overcomes a ton of fear!
Supporter
Mar 12, 2017
362
156
63
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Visit site
✟92,521.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Here is what I found from F.B. Meyer in E-Sword on Is Jesus Human... I research more that just the Bible.
Luke
OUTLINE OF THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO LUKE
The Human Life of the Son of God
PREFACE, Luk_1:1-4
I. BIRTH AND BEGINNINGS, Luk_1:5-80; Luk_2:1-52
1. Birth of the Forerunner, Luk_1:5-25; Luk_1:57-80
2. Birth of Jesus, Luk_1:26-56; Luk_2:1-20
3. Infancy and Development, Luk_2:21-52
II. THE LIFE DEVOTED TO HUMAN NEED, Luke 3:1-18:30
1. Ministry of the Forerunner, Luk_3:1-20
2. Baptism and Temptation of Jesus, Luk_3:21-22; Luk_4:1-13
Genealogy, Luk_3:23-38
3. The Galilean Ministry, Luke 4:14-9:50
Choice of the twelve apostles, sermon on the plain, miracles of many kinds
4. Journey toward Jerusalem, Luke 9:51-18:30
Sending out of the Seventy, parables teaching prayer, mercy, and judgment
III. THE LIFE REJECTED BY HUMAN HATRED, Luke 18:31-22:7
1. Last Journey to Jerusalem, Luk_18:31-43; Luk_19:1-27
2. Triumphal Entry-Cleansing of the Temple, Luk_19:28-48
3. Parodies of Judgment, Questions, Teaching about Last Things, Luk_20:1-47; Luk_21:1-38
4. The Bargain of Judas, Luk_22:1-7
IV. THE LIFE SACRIFICED FOR HUMAN SIN, Luke 22:7-23:56
1. The Last Supper and the Agony in the Garden, Luk_22:7-46
2. The Betrayal, Luk_22:47-53
3. The Jewish and Roman Trials, Luk_22:54-71; Luk_23:1-25
4. The Crucifixion and Burial, Luk_23:26-56
V. THE LIFE REMANIFESTED AND GLORIFIED, Luk_24:1-53
1. Visit of Women to Tomb, Luk_24:1-12
2. Walk to Emmaus, Luk_24:13-35
3. Appearance to the Eleven, Luk_24:36-49
4. The Ascension, Luk_24:50-53
INTRODUCTION
The third Gospel is the longest. It was probably written in Greece, for Greek-speaking people, by Luke, a Gentile physician, who had not been an eye-witness of the facts he describes, but had taken great pains to acquaint himself with the facts as related to him by eye-witnesses. See Luk_1:1-4. The old tradition is that Luke wrote under the direction of Paul, whose companion he was after the events narrated in Act_16:1-40.
It has been described as the most carefully composed of the three narrative Gospels; and is the reply to questionings that would naturally present themselves to cultured men who had been impressed with the strange beauty of the Cross. No one could understand better than the great Apostle the need of an exhaustive reply to such questionings, and of an authoritative history of the rise and progress of the gospel of Christ. Luke dwells specially on the early incidents of our Lord’s life, and some have detected in the Greek forms of the sentences the direct recital of Mary as she recounted to Luke those sacred recollections which, she pondered in her heart. There are many places where Luke uses medical terms, etc., which the other Gospels do not mention, and which show his training as a physician.
Luke addresses himself to show the universality of Christ’s gospel. He ignores all privilege of race, or caste or training, and traces back our Lord’s genealogy to Adam. It is thus that he, of all the evangelists, dwells on the message of the Baptist: “All flesh shall see the salvation of God.” In the same spirit he tells the parables of Luk_15:1-32, as well as that of the marriage supper; and contrasts the ingratitude of the nine Jewish lepers with the gratitude of the Samaritan. It is especially the Gospel of hope and love, of pity and faith.
{e-Sword Note: The following material was presented at the end of Luke in the printed edition}


I hope this helps, I have more on the subject
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

packermann

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2003
1,437
372
70
Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, IL
✟37,982.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Yes I like that idea. That Jesus was the last man Adam, a life giving spirit. And the fall makes us less than what we are created to be. That makes sense to me. Thank you :)

Your welcome! I want to compliment that you are willing to correct or at least modify your position by being given something that makes sense. We all need to learn this from you. :amen:
 
Upvote 0

packermann

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2003
1,437
372
70
Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, IL
✟37,982.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
OK but you do believe he was fully God and fully human? How is he both then?

I know what you mean. Mathematically, it does not make sense. The percentage that Jesus is God is the percentage that He is not human. So then how can Jesus be 100% God and 100% human?

But sometimes a truth does not make sense, especially a truth involving God. St Augustine once said (to paraphrase) "If you think that you fully understand God, then that isn't God". Suppose you had an ant on the palm of your hand. Can this ant comprehend that it is on your palm. Can it comprehend you? The difference between you, a finite being, and God, an Infinite being, is far greater that the difference between an ant and you. We can only know about God what it pleases him to reveal to us. Jesus said we must accept what He reveals to us with child-like faith. We will never be able to fully understand God. That is above our pay-grade.

So I do not understand how Jesus can be fully God and fully Man. But I humbly accept it. I know that if Jesus was not fully God then His death could not have saved the world. And I know that if Jesus was not fully Man then He did not fully experience the pain of death. Both are needed for His death to save me from my sins.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Poll up. If no explain your view.

Christ WAS fully human but isn't anymore.

When a human is born they are human because they are mortal and are a created being. If you die and are resurrected and changed/glorified then you aren't "human" anymore because you are something more, greater than a human's origin.

This also explains it:

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

If the body sowed (buried) is not the same body that "shall be" then that proves there is a big difference between a "seed" and the "plant" that comes forth later so then the human that dies is raised as something more than human. Other scripture says we are "equal unto the angels" in the resurrection and that Christ was made "a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death" during his life here as a human being. This proves that there is a difference between being a living human being which is mortal, and a resurrected person who cannot die and is higher than a human and equal to the angels. And Christ being God is not only higher than a human but higher than an angel so that further distances Him from being "fully human" after his resurrection. He was fully human (and fully God) before that for some 33 years or so but isn't fully human now.

He is currently fully God. His humanity was only temporary.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: devin553344
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ WAS fully human but isn't anymore.

When a human is born they are human because they are mortal and are a created being. If you die and are resurrected and changed/glorified then you aren't "human" anymore because you are something more, greater than a human's origin.

This also explains it:

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

If the body sowed (buried) is not the same body that "shall be" then that proves there is a big difference between a "seed" and the "plant" that comes forth later so then the human that dies is raised as something more than human. Other scripture says we are "equal unto the angels" in the resurrection and that Christ was made "a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death" during his life here as a human being. This proves that there is a difference between being a living human being which is mortal, and a resurrected person who cannot die and is higher than a human and equal to the angels. And Christ being God is not only higher than a human but higher than an angel so that further distances Him from being "fully human" after his resurrection. He was fully human (and fully God) before that for some 33 years or so but isn't fully human now.

He is currently fully God. His humanity was only temporary.
That does not make us cease being human. Jesus Christ was glorified when He ascended into Heaven.

We will be like Him in that we will be resurrected with incorruptible bodies.

When Thomas put his hand in the wounds of Christ was Jesus's body human?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.