Our God The Consuming Fire

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renniks

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No He won't, because the wicked will be transformed by the power of heaven. For who can stand in the day of the Lord?
Why are we to evangelize if everyone gets a free pass in the end, anyway? Or, rather, if everyone gets forced into the kingdom?
 
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WESTOZZIE

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Why are we to evangelize if everyone gets a free pass in the end, anyway? Or, rather, if everyone gets forced into the kingdom?
You ask a good question, but the answer is not difficult, just hidden because of Jerome and Augustine's wrong translation of olamolam, and aionios, aionian ann aion etc.
People are NEVER forced into the Kingdom. God our Father does not force. We preach the good news of forgiveness of sins already accomplished through Jesus sacrifice so that they may hear and believe. That is the same today and in the aions to come.

Eph 2:7 that in the ages(aions) to come He might show[declare, publish abroad, preach!!] the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

In the ages to come?

Yes! Paul was writing in the Pentecostal age, which we are coming to the end of...and then begins the Tabernacles age--or the Kingdom age...then there are still ages or aions after that until ALL people are drawn to Jesus, John 12:32, and all come into submission to Jesus in their own rank or order of time..1 Cor 15:23.
Preach the good news until all take an oath and swear that in Jesus ALONE I have righteousness and strength, so that God's promise in Isaiah 45:23,24 is fulfilled.
 
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mkgal1

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This "life" and death - seems to me - to be spiritual:

1 John 3:8
- This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.
 
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martymonster

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Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


There's a very good reason that sinners repent in sack cloth and ashes, because it is the fire of God's judgement (his word) that burns the old man into repentance.

I really don't know how much more clear a picture, these to scriptures could paint of the true nature of fire in scripture.
In fact, scripture itself, is that fire.
 
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WESTOZZIE

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This position that there is no forgiveness for certain sins, means that Jesus sacrifice was not for all sins, or for all people. You are free to believe that if you want. I prefer to believe that His sacrifice was for all sin and all people.. My Saviour is superior to your version. His love and HIs sacrifice are for all. I cannot possibly preach such a pathetic message as limited atonement surely is. What hope has anyone got if God's sacrifice is limited.

and as far as the rendering of aionios krisis in the KJV being eternal damnation...
aionios does not mean eternal!!
it is correctly translated as pertaining to an age of time.
an aion is an era, and age of time...whereas the word eternity is NOTHING to do with time. The judgement(krisis) is for a period of time...an age....not eternal as Jerome and Augustine summised.
 
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mkgal1

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Matthew 25:41 ....Matthew 25:46
/shows some get eternal life and others go away - as cursed to
everlasting punishment
Matthew 25 was Jesus warning about the coming (to that generation) destruction of the Temple (where it was believed God's presence was) and ancient Jerusalem. Those that didn't follow His instruction were killed. The punishment was everlasting because God will not be reentering the holy of holies any more - He dwells with us. We are the "stones" of the Temple. The kingdom was transferred. He is our King and High priest now (and that is everlasting).
 
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martymonster

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This "life" and death - seems to me - to be spiritual:

1 John 3:8
- This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.

There are 2 kinds of death in scripture, both spiritual.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


We can either be alive to the flesh and dead to God, or alive to God and dead to the flesh. We will experience both.
 
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aiki

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent

How shallow is the common view of “fire” as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of…

“Life”…Isa. 4:5

“Purification”…Matt. 3:3

“Atonement”…Lev. 16:27

“Transformation”…2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

Fire is also a means of divine destruction and judgment:

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


There is no "transformation" here but a complete destruction of the things Peter mentions in the verse. There is no phoenix-like rising of the earth, elements and heavens from the ashes of their burning.

Genesis 19:24
24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens.


Fire is used here in divine judgment and destruction upon evil Sodom and Gomorrah.

Numbers 11:1
11 Now when the people complained, it displeased the Lord; for the Lord heard it, and His anger was aroused. So the fire of the Lord burned among them, and consumed some in the outskirts of the camp.


Here, too, God's judgment falls in consuming fire upon the grumbling Israelites.

Numbers 16:35
35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.


Again, God resorts to fire as a means of punishment of the wicked.

Deuteronomy 4:24
24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.


Here, God is described as a fire that consumes and that is associated with His jealousy.

2 Kings 1:10
10 So Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men.” And fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.


And...once more heavenly fire consumes the wicked.

Psalms 18:8
Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;


The Psalmist here describes God in fiery terms, smoke rising from his nostrils and a devouring fire issuing from His mouth. No sense of the healing qualities of fire in this description that you're going on about...

I could go on showing other verses that associate God with the destructive qualities of fire. It appears you have not accurately described the facts concerning fire in Scripture.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God’s fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent.

You have by no means shown this to be the case - especially in Scripture. See above.

Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

And yet, in Scripture, God repeatedly uses fire to punish and destroy, not to "sustain life."

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes–call it, if you please, a paradox–in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled?

Sodom and Gomorrah were not purified but utterly destroyed.

It is also a glaring non sequitur to say that because God is love, His "fire" must be kindled by His love. God is not only - or primarily - love. In fact, Scripture emphasizes God's holiness far more than it is does His love. The Bible speaks of God's holy mountain, arm, throne, temple, kingdom, spirit, angels, and truth. Scripture does not speak of these things in terms of God's love. His temple is not said to be a loving temple, nor is His throne called a loving throne; there is no mention of God's loving mountain in Scripture. What's more, the cherubs around God's throne do not sing, "Love, love, love, Lord God Almighty." No, they sing, "Holy, holy, holy." The statement, "God is love" appears only twice in all of the Bible and both times in the same chapter. But God is described as holy a multitude of times throughout the Bible. It is, then, a grave mistake to make God's love His preeminent and defining characteristic. This is a modern contortion of God not a biblically-accurate conception of Him. What, then, of your idea about God's "fire" emanating from His love? It seems to me that the fire of divine judgment and punishment that in Scripture devoured the wicked reflects God's holiness and justice very appropriately.

In light of all this, it is no surprise to encounter descriptions of hell and its eternally-tormenting fire in the New Testament. God has all along used fire as a symbol of His judgment and means of His punishment of the wicked.

Matthew 3:10
Matthew 3:12
Matthew 5:22
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 18:8
2 Thessalonians 1:8

...And so on.
 
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martymonster

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Fire is also a means of divine destruction and judgment:

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


There is no "transformation" here but a complete destruction of the things Peter mentions in the verse. There is no phoenix-like rising of the earth, elements and heavens from the ashes of their burning.

Genesis 19:24
24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens.


Fire is used here in divine judgment and destruction upon evil Sodom and Gomorrah.

Numbers 11:1
11 Now when the people complained, it displeased the Lord; for the Lord heard it, and His anger was aroused. So the fire of the Lord burned among them, and consumed some in the outskirts of the camp.


Here, too, God's judgment falls in consuming fire upon the grumbling Israelites.

Numbers 16:35
35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.


Again, God resorts to fire as a means of punishment of the wicked.

Deuteronomy 4:24
24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.


Here, God is described as a fire that consumes and that is associated with His jealousy.

2 Kings 1:10
10 So Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men.” And fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.


And...once more heavenly fire consumes the wicked.

Psalms 18:8
Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;


The Psalmist here describes God in fiery terms, smoke rising from his nostrils and a devouring fire issuing from His mouth. No sense of the healing qualities of fire in this description that you're going on about...

I could go on showing other verses that associate God with the destructive qualities of fire. It appears you have not accurately described the facts concerning fire in Scripture.



You have by no means shown this to be the case - especially in Scripture. See above.



And yet, in Scripture, God repeatedly uses fire to punish and destroy, not to "sustain life."



Sodom and Gomorrah were not purified but utterly destroyed.

It is also a glaring non sequitur to say that because God is love, His "fire" must be kindled by His love. God is not only - or primarily - love. In fact, Scripture emphasizes God's holiness far more than it is does His love. The Bible speaks of God's holy mountain, arm, throne, temple, kingdom, spirit, angels, and truth. Scripture does not speak of these things in terms of God's love. His temple is not said to be a loving temple, nor is His throne called a loving throne; there is no mention of God's loving mountain in Scripture. What's more, the cherubs around God's throne do not sing, "Love, love, love, Lord God Almighty." No, they sing, "Holy, holy, holy." The statement, "God is love" appears only twice in all of the Bible and both times in the same chapter. But God is described as holy a multitude of times throughout the Bible. It is, then, a grave mistake to make God's love His preeminent and defining characteristic. This is a modern contortion of God not a biblically-accurate conception of Him. What, then, of your idea about God's "fire" emanating from His love? It seems to me that the fire of divine judgment and punishment that in Scripture devoured the wicked reflects God's holiness and justice very appropriately.

In light of all this, it is no surprise to encounter descriptions of hell and its eternally-tormenting fire in the New Testament. God has all along used fire as a symbol of His judgment and means of His punishment of the wicked.

Matthew 3:10
Matthew 3:12
Matthew 5:22
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 18:8
2 Thessalonians 1:8

...And so on.


Yes, it does mean destruction....destruction of the old man.
 
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vinsight4u

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Matthew 25 was Jesus warning about the coming (to that generation) destruction of the Temple (where it was believed God's presence was) and ancient Jerusalem. Those that didn't follow His instruction were killed. The punishment was everlasting because God will not be reentering the holy of holies any more - He dwells with us. We are the "stones" of the Temple. The kingdom was transferred. He is our King and High priest now (and that is everlasting).
Matthew 25 is about the end of this world, not 70 AD.

It begins - Then shall....
That means it is linked to the timing at the end of chapter 24.

chapter 24
has as to Heaven and earth shall pass away....that day....
chapter 25 Then shall....ten virgins....goats....everlasting punishment.

It is about the hour and day not known to man-that is when heaven and earth
will pass away. A new earth that has no sea part will be created by God Almighty.
 
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FineLinen

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Matthew 25 is about the end of this world, not 70 AD.

It begins - Then shall....
That means it is linked to the timing at the end of chapter 24.

chapter 24
has as to Heaven and earth shall pass away....that day....
chapter 25 Then shall....ten virgins....goats....everlasting punishment.

It is about the hour and day not known to man-that is when heaven and earth
will pass away. A new earth that has no sea part will be created by God Almighty.

860d75a651b84b91b4ea24254f55075ec6c643c0.gif


Not quite!

Matthew 25 is regarding pure virgins & two clean animals sheep & goats.

Why, why, why? ? ?

ON the SHEEP and the GOATS By Jonathan Mitchell
 
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FineLinen

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Fire is also a means of divine destruction and judgment:

Our God is a consuming fire. Whatever is not of His Divine nature cannot exist in His Presence. All that is not of God’s nature is not holy.

God destroys & God makes alive all by the road of His Fire

 
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FineLinen

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Deut. 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Deut. 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

It is not just the wicked that will be dwelling in the devouring fire:

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil.

Like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; We will be able to stand in the presence of a Holy God and not be destroyed:

Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

d007e0fcf84c10ca88a4ebf564359e09c9a76bec.jpeg
 
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Kaon

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent

How shallow is the common view of “fire” as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of…

“Life”…Isa. 4:5

“Purification”…Matt. 3:3

“Atonement”…Lev. 16:27

“Transformation”…2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God’s fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, “aflame to the very tips of our fingers.” And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God’s Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God’s wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a “fire unfolding itself” (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and “the appearance of fire.” (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ’s eyes are a flame of “fire” (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of “fire” are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said “to go before God,” His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God’s ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4…Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes–call it, if you please, a paradox–in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, “Thy God is a consuming Fire,” and “Thy God is a merciful God” (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)–words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God’s cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)–suggestive words. And, so again, “By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh.” (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by “fire.” (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often “fire” is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in “fire:” God answers Gideon by “fire;” and David by “fire.” (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by “fire;” and in “fire” Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of “fire.” So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by “fire.” (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of “fire” God gave His law. And in “fire” the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that “fire,” like judgment, so far from being the sinner’s portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God’s judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is “already kindled,” always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. “I am come to send fire on the earth,” for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the “fire is to try every man’s work.” He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned “so as by fire,” by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, “He that is near Me is near fire,” expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work “like a refiner’s fire.” And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that “our God is a consuming Fire,” i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but “Our God is a consuming Fire”–a consuming Fire, “by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed.”

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that “coals of fire” go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are “coals of fire” to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious “fires” of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner’s doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these “fires” not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise–

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-

If you are mostly made of corruption, the consuming fire will consume your essence.

If you have ore in you, the consuming fire will allow you to undergo the process of burning to burn off impurities; then you will reveal your preciousness.

So, the "parable" of hell and heaven depends on the corruption of the individual at the root. The "election" have a kernel of ore that guarantees their "preciousness". Weathering (trials) sand away some of the corruption to get closer to the ore - which is why He tells us to be glad when we go through trials. It is all part of the refining process. Good fruit produces good fruit and such. You must "die to self first," then you become a new creature. Take away the old wineskin, and bring a new (perfect) one to fill with Good Wine.
 
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martymonster

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If you are mostly made of corruption, the consuming fire will consume your essence.

If you have ore in you, the consuming fire will allow you to undergo the process of burning to burn off impurities; then you will reveal your preciousness.

So, the "parable" of hell and heaven depends on the corruption of the individual at the root. The "election" have a kernel of ore that guarantees their "preciousness". Weathering (trials) sand away some of the corruption to get closer to the ore - which is why He tells us to be glad when we go through trials. It is all part of the refining process. Good fruit produces good fruit and such. You must "die to self first," then you become a new creature. Take away the old wineskin, and bring a new (perfect) one to fill with Good Wine.



1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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vinsight4u

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Matthew 25 is about what happens to those still alive at the time of the end of
this world.

They will be divided -the nations -the people -into two groups. As also shown in
Matthew 13, wheat and tares. at the end of the world
The holy angels will come and take the tares people away. Those people will
eventually be cast into the lake of fire.


Matthew 13:49
/the time of wailing

end of Matthew 24
Matthew 24:51
/the time of weeping
Matthew 25:30
Matthew 22:13

Matthew 25 - Then shall.....everlasting punishment

Matthew 25:13

Matthew 24:35

Matthew 24:36
 
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