LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

Barney2.0

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In the Coptic Orthodox tradition, there is a part of our midnight praises chanted for Sundays that begins: "Who is likened unto You, O Lord among the gods, You are the true God, the Performer of miracles."

Probably if Mormons heard this, they would say "Aha! It says 'Gods'! See, even your church once believed as we do, but then you were swept up in the apostasy like all the churches were!"

:doh:

It seems that it does not matter how clear the reason for the use of certain language is in expressing Christian theology; what Mormons focus on instead is that the use of such language exists -- i.e., "We found this word of this combination of words", and not what they actually mean in the context in which they are found. It's very much like my experience of arguing the same with Muslims, which I do not believe is coincidental in the slightest (as both groups need for Christianity as it was actually established to be false, or else their subsequent parasitic religions have no reason to exist at all, ever).
People who claim to have seen God and found religions based on revelation from God with no testimony other themselves usually have to come up with wacky excuses why the religion the said person claims that he or she continues or corrects, ends up rejecting the said person or vastly historically contradicting what the said prophet teaches. Take Mohammed and Islam for example which claim testimony from Judeo-Christian scripture only to vastly end up contradicting it. The Muslim solution is to say that the Christians and Jews corrupted their scriptures and their faiths which explains why they contradict Islam, their scriptures don’t have Mohammed in them, or why they don’t confirm Islam or it’s theology in the slightest way. Mormonism does the same in this regard, but isn’t as good as Islam in that regard, as I’ve realized the newer a heretical religion with a fake prophet is founded the more far fetched its claims seem to become from its predecessors. I’ve pointed out to Muslims that there claims aren’t unique in the slightest regard, as everything they say about us such as Mohammed being the final prophet, the Bible being corrupt and so forth, are repeated by newer religions such as Bahai’s about Islam, and to be honest religions founded by a guy who claims to be a prophet always follow the exact same pattern. Nothing ever really changes with people like this. Another fact which I wouldn’t call very fun is that all these guys had very horrible unexpected deaths for some reason.
 
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Pedra

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So they quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water to drink." Moses replied, "Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to the test?"

Exodus 17:2

The Hebrew word for test here which is ”nasah” can be translated as tempt and could mean temptation:

Strong's Hebrew: 5254. נָסָה (nasah) -- to test, try

I’m not sure you know what tempt means according to the Oxford dictionary and its definition:

to attract somebody or make somebody want to do or have something, even if they know it is wrong

Have people or Satan ever attempted to entice God to take a specific course of action, yes that has happened numerous time and we as people still attempt to put God to the test.

I think your confusing the word tempt with the idea of committing sin. Hebrews 4:14-15 doesn’t really say what you want it to say, it says that Jesus was tested in every way we are, yet committed no sin. Yes he was, but does it say he suffered from sin or struggled with it as a result of his temptation?

2 Corinthians 5:21 elaborates on this by saying he knew no sin, unlike us who know sin, Paul also makes a distinction using these terms between Christ and us, by saying that through him we may be made righteous before God which can only happen if he is made in the image of God in which case he feels no sin in his heart, for he that sins in his heart already commits sin:

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So Christ neither committed any sin and is immortal, ever lasting to ever lasting, which means he is immune to sin and it’s effects as a result of his humanity being united to his divinity perfectly.
Here is an example --- If I say "Do not test my patience!" -- that does not mean you tempted me - but when someone is trying another's patience for eg --it synonyms for trying are hassling, provoking, challenging, contending against--Trying to provoke me to to react is the way I'd explain it.
 
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He is the way

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None of that refers to separate deities as in Mormonism. The term Elohim or god has been used to refer to idols, the devil, and rulers of the world. It doesn’t support the Mormon idea of polytheism. There are many gods, meaning false gods, but only one true living one, 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 is evidence against Mormonism’s polytheism, it doesn’t support your theological viewpoints in any way what so ever.
Elohim is plural not singular. There are many true Gods. Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1 - 6)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

God the Father is the most High of all of the Gods.
 
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Pedra

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People who claim to have seen God and found religions based on revelation from God with no testimony other themselves usually have to come up with wacky excuses why the religion the said person claims that he or she continues or corrects, ends up rejecting the said person or vastly historically contradicting what the said prophet teaches. Take Mohammed and Islam for example which claim testimony from Judeo-Christian scripture only to vastly end up contradicting it. The Muslim solution is to say that the Christians and Jews corrupted their scriptures and their faiths which explains why they contradict Islam, their scriptures don’t have Mohammed in them, or why they don’t confirm Islam or it’s theology in the slightest way. Mormonism does the same in this regard, but isn’t as good as Islam in that regard, as I’ve realized the newer a heretical religion with a fake prophet is founded the more far fetched its claims seem to become from its predecessors.
I’ve pointed out to Muslims that there claims aren’t unique in the slightest regard, as everything they say about us such as Mohammed being the final prophet, the Bible being corrupt and so forth, are repeated by newer religions such as Bahai’s about Islam, and to be honest religions founded by a guy who claims to be a prophet always follow the exact same pattern. Nothing ever really changes with people like this.

Another fact which I wouldn’t call very fun is that all these guys had very horrible unexpected deaths for some reason
.
I have noticed too, the patterns are similar in all false religions, cults & counterfeits outside of Judeo-Christianity. These false religions follow a similar patterns,a pseudo spirituality, pseudo holiness, the false claims of being given special information directly through special visitations, ego-centric false teachings, the veneration of the founders or prophet and I noticed the same that they often meet with a horrible end.
 
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Barney2.0

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Here is an example --- If I say "Do not test my patience!" -- that does not mean you tempted me - but when someone is trying another's patience for eg --it synonyms for trying are hassling, provoking, challenging, contending against--Trying to provoke me to to react is the way I'd explain it.
The word tempt can be used here, trying to make or convince someone take a specific course of action is the definition of tempt or temptation. Yes, when you say do not test me, it means I’m attempting to tempt you to take a course of action that would break your patience.
 
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Pedra

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Elohim is plural not singular. There are many true Gods. Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1 - 6)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

God the Father is the most High of all of the Gods.
It is blasphemy saying there are many gods - that Mormonism believes.

As several of us have told you many, many times that Elohim --the plural refers to the HOLY TRINITY --FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
But Mormons reject the ETERNAL Holy Triune GOD of the BIBLE.
 
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Pedra

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The word tempt can be used here, trying to make or convince someone take a specific course of action is the definition of tempt or temptation. Yes, when you say do not test me, it means I’m attempting to tempt you to take a course of action that would break your patience.
God cannot be tempted though.
Satan means the adversary -- he fights against GOD.
 
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Barney2.0

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Elohim is plural not singular. There are many true Gods. Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1 - 6)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

God the Father is the most High of all of the Gods.
I’m not arguing that God is a singular being, as a trinitarian I believe God exists as a multi-personal being. How does the word Elohim which refers to a singular being indicate polytheism or the belief in more then one god? How does the use of the word Elohim indicate that there’s more then one god or divine being out there, do you actually understand the argument your making?
Just as I said previously there are many false gods and idols, yet only one true deity and true living God. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6:

So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
 
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He is the way

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It is blasphemy saying there are many gods - that Mormonism believes.

As several of us have told you many, many times that Elohim --the plural refers to the HOLY TRINITY --FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
But Mormons reject the ETERNAL Holy Triune GOD of the BIBLE.

And you have listed three of the many Gods, but we are to worship the Father of our spirits because He is the most High God, and our Father. Jesus is our brother.
 
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Barney2.0

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God cannot be tempted though.
Satan means the adversary -- he fights against GOD.
Tempt means to attempt to convince someone to take a specific course of action, does that happen in scripture yes it does, do we always attempt to tempt God, yes we do. So why are you denying what’s plainly in scripture?
 
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Barney2.0

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And you have listed three of the many Gods, but we are to worship the Father of our spirits because He is the most High God, and our Father. Jesus is our brother.
Do you believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods which is tritheism and polytheism, which was also historically classified as a heresy by the Church and Christian community.
 
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He is the way

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I’m not arguing that God is a singular being, as a trinitarian I believe God exists as a multi-personal being. How does the word Elohim which refers to a singular being indicate polytheism or the belief in more then one god? How does the use of the word Elohim indicate that there’s more then one god or divine being out there, do you actually understand the argument your making?
Just as I said previously there are many false gods and idols, yet only one true deity and true living God. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6:

So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
Yes there are false gods and idols. There is also the most High God. He is the God of all of the other gods. The resurrected Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 
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He is the way

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Do you believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods which is tritheism and polytheism, which was also historically classified as a heresy by the Church and Christian community.
Do you not believe that Jesus is a God?:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
 
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Barney2.0

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Do you not believe that Jesus is a God?:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
I believe he is God, begotten of the same essence as the Father and proceeds from him as the Holy Spirit is begotten of the same essence and proceeds from the Father through the Son. Jesus is God one with the Father and Holy Spirit, not a god sperate or distinct from them in being.
 
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Pedra

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Tempt means to attempt to convince someone to take a specific course of action, does that happen in scripture yes it does, do we always attempt to tempt God, yes we do. So why are you denying what’s plainly in scripture?
This is only Your opinion of scripture that I disagree with.
I disagree with what you say.
GOD cannot be tempted by a creature.
You want to try to make the claim that I deny scripture? that is false.
The fact is --I deny your interpretation.
You will just have to accept that. I'm tired of stating this.
 
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Barney2.0

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Yes there are false gods and idols. There is also the most High God. He is the God of all of the other gods. The resurrected Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
There are no deities apart from God as that would contradict the first commandment. And other clear Biblical passages. Also where does the Bible say there are many deities.
 
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Barney2.0

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This is only Your opinion of scripture.
I disagree with what you say.
GOD cannot be tempted by a creature.
You want to try to make the claim that I deny scripture? that is false.
The fact is --I deny your interpretation. You will have to accept that.
Deuteronomy 6:16 says not to tempt or test the lord, some translations such as the KJV translate the word nasah as tempt which is as accurate as the word test:

Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

So it’s not my interpretation, that’s what it says, unless you can prove that the Hebrew word nasah can’t mean tempt. If God couldn’t be put to the test or tempted then then why would Jesus say thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God?
 
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Do you not believe that Jesus is a God?:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

NO!! Jesus is not A God---He is One God with the Father, and Holy Spirit!
 
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Pedra

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Deuteronomy 6:16 says not to tempt or test the lord, some translations such as the KJV translate the word nasah as tempt which is as accurate as the word test:

Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

So it’s not my interpretation, that’s what it says, unless you can prove that the Hebrew word nasah can’t mean tempt. If God couldn’t be put to the test or tempted then then why would Jesus say thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God?
Ya, and I expressed the different synonyms for the word "tempt" but you are stuck on your one narrow interpretation of the use of that word so --have a nice day!
 
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Barney2.0

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Ya, and I expressed the different synonyms for the word "tempt" but you are stuck on your one narrow interpretation of the use of that word so --have a nice day!
Synonyms are different words with the same meaning, the Bible uses the word nasah which means tempt or rest. So the meaning is quite clear.
 
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