Why does hell exist?

Der Alte · Sep 9, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
I like you Tyler52. You just keep coming back with zanier more off-the-wall ideas at avoiding the simple truth. God has given you the gift of persistence. Now it's discernment that's needed.

Why don't you show that Tyler52 is wrong by quoting the writing by Clement you are referring to showing that it is not a spurious interpolation? Tick tock.

Shrewd Manager · Sep 10, 2019

Der Alter said:
Why don't you show that Tyler52 is wrong by quoting the writing by Clement you are referring to showing that it is not a spurious interpolation? Tick tock.

Well I'd be waiting for our friend to provide sufficient particulars. Or should I be consulting the Holy Spirit as to the purport of his cryptic 'interpolations'?

Shrewd Manager · Sep 10, 2019

vinsight4u said:
The saints will do the abhorring as shown at the end of Isaiah 66 - all those in flesh
go out to the lake of fire for one reason - to be abhorred
everlasting contempt -abhor - Daniel 12

I think you're right. And if the saints are unlucky enough to count you and I in their number, and the contemptibly abhorred are right outside being tormented in a hopeless barrel of wormy sludge, what's our next move? (Clue - remember the good Samaritan).

Noxot · Sep 10, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
God is the Creator of all things. He loves everything He created, according to Genesis 1. But God hates Satan and demons and does not want anyone to live in the lake of fire that He created. I don't get it. My mom said a loving God would not create hell because He does not want people to suffer eternally, so she does not believe it exists. Why isn't this true?

Hell is the place for people that choose to be evil. To deny that hell does not exist is to deny that evil exists. Hell must exist because it would be wrong to allow good people to always be tormented by evil people.

Therefore God's Providence is to organize like Souls with other like Souls in order to best help others. in Theory since evil is an inferior state of being it cannot be eternal since it is too unstable of a reality.

But as long as beings choose to be evil they choose for hell to exist.

Tyler52 · Sep 10, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
I think you're right. And if the saints are unlucky enough to count you and I in their number, and the contemptibly abhorred are right outside being tormented in a hopeless barrel of wormy sludge, what's our next move? (Clue - remember the good Samaritan).

I do believe our next move goes something like this

Ezekiel 39:1-20 CSB
"As for you, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say, 'This is what the Lord GOD says: Look, I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. [2] I will turn you around, drive you on, and lead you up from the remotest parts of the north. I will bring you against the mountains of Israel. [3] Then I will knock your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. [4] You, all your troops, and the peoples who are with you will fall on the mountains of Israel. I will give you as food to every kind of predatory bird and to the wild animals. [5] You will fall on the open field, for I have spoken. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [6] "'I will send fire against Magog and those who live securely on the coasts and islands. Then they will know that I am the LORD. [7] So I will make my holy name known among my people Israel and will no longer allow it to be profaned. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. [8] Yes, it is coming, and it will happen. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. This is the day I have spoken about. [9] "'Then the inhabitants of Israel's cities will go out, kindle fires, and burn the weapons-the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them to make fires. [10] They will not gather wood from the countryside or cut it down from the forests, for they will use the weapons to make fires. They will take the loot from those who looted them and plunder those who plundered them. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [11] "'Now on that day I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel-the Travelers' Valley east of the Sea. It will block those who travel through, for Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called Hordes of Gog Valley. [12] The house of Israel will spend seven months burying them in order to cleanse the land. [13] All the people of the land will bury them and their fame will spread on the day I display my glory. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [14] "'They will appoint men on a full-time basis to pass through the land and bury the invaders who remain on the surface of the ground, in order to cleanse it. They will make their search at the end of the seven months. [15] When they pass through the land and one of them sees a human bone, he will set up a marker next to it until the buriers have buried it in Hordes of Gog Valley. [16] There will even be a city named Hamonah there. So they will cleanse the land.' [17] "Son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Tell every kind of bird and all the wild animals, 'Assemble and come! Gather from all around to my sacrificial feast that I am slaughtering for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel; you will eat flesh and drink blood. [18] You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the earth's princes: rams, lambs, male goats, and all the fattened bulls of Bashan. [19] You will eat fat until you are satisfied and drink blood until you are drunk, at my sacrificial feast that I have prepared for you. [20] At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, of mighty men and all the warriors. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD.'
So I don't get accused of twisting scripture I present to you the rest of the chapeter:
Ezekiel 39:21-29 CSB
"I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the judgment I have executed and the hand I have laid on them. [22] From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God. [23] And the nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile on account of their iniquity, because they dealt unfaithfully with me. Therefore, I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, so that they all fell by the sword. [24] I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and transgressions, and I hid my face from them. [25] "So this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy name. [26] They will feel remorse for their disgrace and all the unfaithfulness they committed against me, when they live securely in their land with no one to frighten them. [27] When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the countries of their enemies, I will demonstrate my holiness through them in the sight of many nations. [28] They will know that I am the LORD their God when I regather them to their own land after having exiled them among the nations. I will leave none of them behind. [29] I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel." This is the declaration of the Lord GOD.

Tyler52 · Sep 10, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
I like you Tyler52. You just keep coming back with zanier more off-the-wall ideas at avoiding the simple truth. God has given you the gift of persistence. Now it's discernment that's needed.

Funny I was thinking the same thing about you, I guess we have something in common (persistence).

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

FineLinen · Sep 11, 2019

vinsight4u said:
We - the saints -will not be able to convince God to grant mercy to those in the lake of fire.

Dear Vin: You will not need to convince the Father of all fathers of anything! His love and mercy never ends, ever.

Warning: when you run out of forgiveness points you are in deep trouble!

70X7= 490= the breaking point.

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager · Sep 12, 2019

Tyler52 said:
I do believe our next move goes something like this

Ezekiel 39:1-20 CSB
"As for you, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say, 'This is what the Lord GOD says: Look, I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. [2] I will turn you around, drive you on, and lead you up from the remotest parts of the north. I will bring you against the mountains of Israel. [3] Then I will knock your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. [4] You, all your troops, and the peoples who are with you will fall on the mountains of Israel. I will give you as food to every kind of predatory bird and to the wild animals. [5] You will fall on the open field, for I have spoken. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [6] "'I will send fire against Magog and those who live securely on the coasts and islands. Then they will know that I am the LORD. [7] So I will make my holy name known among my people Israel and will no longer allow it to be profaned. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. [8] Yes, it is coming, and it will happen. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. This is the day I have spoken about. [9] "'Then the inhabitants of Israel's cities will go out, kindle fires, and burn the weapons-the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them to make fires. [10] They will not gather wood from the countryside or cut it down from the forests, for they will use the weapons to make fires. They will take the loot from those who looted them and plunder those who plundered them. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [11] "'Now on that day I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel-the Travelers' Valley east of the Sea. It will block those who travel through, for Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called Hordes of Gog Valley. [12] The house of Israel will spend seven months burying them in order to cleanse the land. [13] All the people of the land will bury them and their fame will spread on the day I display my glory. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. [14] "'They will appoint men on a full-time basis to pass through the land and bury the invaders who remain on the surface of the ground, in order to cleanse it. They will make their search at the end of the seven months. [15] When they pass through the land and one of them sees a human bone, he will set up a marker next to it until the buriers have buried it in Hordes of Gog Valley. [16] There will even be a city named Hamonah there. So they will cleanse the land.' [17] "Son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Tell every kind of bird and all the wild animals, 'Assemble and come! Gather from all around to my sacrificial feast that I am slaughtering for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel; you will eat flesh and drink blood. [18] You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the earth's princes: rams, lambs, male goats, and all the fattened bulls of Bashan. [19] You will eat fat until you are satisfied and drink blood until you are drunk, at my sacrificial feast that I have prepared for you. [20] At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, of mighty men and all the warriors. This is the declaration of the Lord GOD.'
So I don't get accused of twisting scripture I present to you the rest of the chapeter:
Ezekiel 39:21-29 CSB
"I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the judgment I have executed and the hand I have laid on them. [22] From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God. [23] And the nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile on account of their iniquity, because they dealt unfaithfully with me. Therefore, I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, so that they all fell by the sword. [24] I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and transgressions, and I hid my face from them. [25] "So this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy name. [26] They will feel remorse for their disgrace and all the unfaithfulness they committed against me, when they live securely in their land with no one to frighten them. [27] When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the countries of their enemies, I will demonstrate my holiness through them in the sight of many nations. [28] They will know that I am the LORD their God when I regather them to their own land after having exiled them among the nations. I will leave none of them behind. [29] I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel." This is the declaration of the Lord GOD.

That's colourful, but just takes us back to Rev 20:7-9.

vinsight4u · Sep 13, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 13, 2019

Shrewd Manager · Sep 13, 2019

vinsight4u said:
1 John 3:15
/ no murderer has -eternal life abiding in him

John 12:25-26

refers to those who will lose their soul
and others that will be where He is

See, the lake of fire is not hell. Hell is cast into the lake of fire, and so is death. And if death is consumed, what's left (after death is burned away as dross)? It's LIFE. And as for the fire, where does it come from? It comes from the stream that issues from the very throne of God, down the main street of the City of God (where it swells into a river with trees of life growing on the banks), and into the lake right outside the ever-open gates of the City. Check the scriptures, you'll find it's all there.

So the lake of fire is the LIFE OF CHRIST that kills death, and brings the dead to life in Christ, because it is from He Who Breathes Life, the great Living I Am.

If the devil is tormented, it's not because his tail is on fire, it's because he's labouring in vain to resist the purifying abundant grace of God. Abandon hope ye devils, for how can ye fight God? Give it up ye reprobates, for who can stand in the day of the Lord?

vinsight4u · Sep 14, 2019

vinsight4u · Sep 14, 2019

Why does hell exist?

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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