Sabbath: How to tell your boss, friends, and family?

philadelphos said:

E.g. Dr. Stephen Chavura was fired from Macquarie University (secular) essentially for holding a Scriptural view on a controversial matter, dividing sentiments among the student cohort and board. He speaks briefly here on the problem of 'Identity Politics and Freedom of Speech', and the case of Sonia Kruger pursued under the Civil and Admin Tribunal and NSW Anti Discrimination Act...

Click to expand...

I can't comment on Chavura's or Kruger's specific cases, as I'm not familiar with them, beyond what I can get from a quick google search.

I will say that everything gets more complicated when one person's exercise of religion harms someone else. Do I have the right to set aside Saturday as my Sabbath? Sure. Do I have the right to insult one of my coworkers with whom I have religious disagreements? Maybe, maybe not. I have the right to free speech, but they have the right to a safe workplace, and then we're into a difficult clash between my rights and their rights. Some of the most difficult legal cases in the US hinge on this kind of balance of rights.

philadelphos said:

Are you located in a Christian or Protestant area ?

Click to expand...

I'm in the United States, but this area of the country is vastly non-believing. The closest thing I've got to a Christian co-worker is one nominal Catholic, and that's it.

On the plus side, though my workplace operates 365 days a year, it's not hard to find someone else to cover Sundays, because no one else goes to church.

philadelphos said:

...how do you break the news to others that you're unavailable to work from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown....

Click to expand...

Incidentally, the Sabbath followed by today's Jews (and Seventh Day Adventists) does not coincide with the timing of the Sabbath as it was originally scheduled in the Old Testament. For that, you would have to follow a lunar calendar, and getting time off work for that would be immensely more difficult than mere seventh-day slumber. Any particular day of the week is far more workable than the asynchrony of reconciling lunar and solar schedules. That's why contemporary Jews locked it down to Friday evening to Saturday evening right about the time that the solar calendar of the Romans was universally instituted.

That's why I consider it foolish to worry and argue over whether the Sabbath should be Saturday or Sunday, when it is, in fact, neither. Both are arbitrary substitutes for the original Sabbath day. One arbitrary substitute is as good as any other. My fellow Christians celebrate it on Sunday, and that's the day I prefer, because that's the only day I can celebrate it with them (by convention).

Oscarr said:

Inflexible, rigid requirement to observe the Sabbath is not applicable for New Covenant Christians. God does not require it of you, therefore it is in the area of religion, and it comes as a lower priority to God first, Family and Job second, and church last.

Click to expand...

You hit the nail directly on the head Oscarr. Sabbath was part of the agreement Israel had with God. History reveals nothing concerning any other nation concerning this duty, only Israel. Some try to morph Sabbath observance into the new covenant even threating that if we don't observe the Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance. According to some today observing a ritual day is a big part of being righteous enough to enter Heaven when the old covenant laws including the Sabbath law would not save one soul.

The Sabbath originated at Sinai and God knew that Jews would at some point be scattered all over the World. He knew that at some point the International Dateline would change the start of the Sabbath from the point at Sinai to East of the country of New Zealand. Plus all the calendar changes that even the Jews have neglected to take into consideration.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

Incidentally, the Sabbath followed by today's Jews (and Seventh Day Adventists) does not coincide with the timing of the Sabbath as it was originally scheduled in the Old Testament. For that, you would have to follow a lunar calendar, and getting time off work for that would be immensely more difficult than mere seventh-day slumber. Any particular day of the week is far more workable than the asynchrony of reconciling lunar and solar schedules. That's why contemporary Jews locked it down to Friday evening to Saturday evening right about the time that the solar calendar of the Romans was universally instituted.

That's why I consider it foolish to worry and argue over whether the Sabbath should be Saturday or Sunday, when it is, in fact, neither. Both are arbitrary substitutes for the original Sabbath day. One arbitrary substitute is as good as any other. My fellow Christians celebrate it on Sunday, and that's the day I prefer, because that's the only day I can celebrate it with them (by convention).

Click to expand...

Great points. SDAs goes so far as to tell us we will lose eternal life if we do not join them on the day they deem as being holy. They shout salvation by faith and yet if we don't do the works of the Law as they prescribe, they write us off as being the apostate.

When we talked about availability for my current job, I told her I was available all week long until 5PM on Friday.

I also told her I am able to work all major US/world holidays, as I don’t celebrate any of them. It’s only 1 day of the week that I’m not able to work.

It’s not a big deal for most people, especially because employers don’t want to cause any issues for potential religious discrimination lawsuits.

Bob S said:

You hit the nail directly on the head Oscarr. Sabbath was part of the agreement Israel had with God. History reveals nothing concerning any other nation concerning this duty, only Israel. Some try to morph Sabbath observance into the new covenant even threating that if we don't observe the Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance. According to some today observing a ritual day is a big part of being righteous enough to enter Heaven when the old covenant laws including the Sabbath law would not save one soul.

The Sabbath originated at Sinai and God knew that Jews would at some point be scattered all over the World. He knew that at some point the International Dateline would change the start of the Sabbath from the point at Sinai to East of the country of New Zealand. Plus all the calendar changes that even the Jews have neglected to take into consideration.

Click to expand...

There is actually nothing wrong with setting aside a day in the week where one can rest from work and to reflect on the things of God; but it has to be personal choice, not as a religious requirement. It is all part of the healthy work/life balance. As a retired person in my 70s, I enjoy my regular "blob-out" days where I rest on the couch and do nothing in particular!

philadelphos said:

That is, practically-speaking, how do you break the news to others that you're unavailable to work from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown, instead only available to work during the working week unlike 99.99% of people who work non-stop, on call 24/7.

Perhaps you quote the 10th commandment, or perhaps you paraphrase the same ethos in other words? Do tell if sabbath is something you've had to explain, elaborate, defend, and argue, or if the Lord has been good to you.

My believing brothers are accepting and considerate, although most themselves are not sabbath-keepers. Others however don't respond so kindly, with most taking offence, assuming 'Ye are idle, ye are idle'... To believers, I will say, "I'm a sabbath-keeper", and to ones knowledgeable of Scripture I will quote the 10th commandment, but to unbelievers and pagans I simply state my availability.

I wonder how y'all cope.

Please comment with:
- Number of years keeping sabbath faithfully
- Pragmatics / practice in your life
- Objections faced and how you've dealt with it...

"The Lord saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed." (1 Sam. 2:30)

Blessings

Click to expand...

I've heard of Seventh-Day Baptists, but I have never known a Presbyterian who views the Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening. Interesting!

Well, since I view Sunday as the Christian Sabbath, and that I work with a Reformed Christian boss (which I had no idea until I had the job), that is the only day I am sure to have off, regardless if I hold to it or not.

Bob S said:

The Sabbath originated at Sinai

Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying that even though you know it is not true? Exodus 16 proves you wrong and so does Yeshua…
Shabbat Shalom

And YHVH said unto Moses, how long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that YHVH hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days.

This was BEFORE Sinai

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Why do you keep saying that even though you know it is not true? Exodus 16 proves you wrong and so does Yeshua…
Shabbat Shalom

And YHVH said unto Moses, how long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that YHVH hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days.

This was BEFORE Sinai

Click to expand...

Ah yes, you are correct. It became a law at Sinai. I deserve 10 lashes with a wet noodle. Do I at least get a little bit of a break for being close to to the real truth?
I really do appreciate your setting me straight. Have a great Sabbath. May you rest in peace. Your friend in Christ, Bob

Bob S said:

Ah yes, you are correct. It became a law at Sinai. I deserve 10 lashes with a wet noodle. Do I at least get a little bit of a break for being close to to the real truth?
I really do appreciate your setting me straight. Have a great Sabbath. May you rest in peace. Your friend in Christ, Bob

Click to expand...

Shalom Bob,
It did not become "law" at Sinai, it became a sign. Shabbat was given at Creation. "And YHVH said unto Moses, how long refuse ye to keep my commandments (MITZVOTAV) and my laws (TORATI)?" And regarding the New Covenant: "I will put my law (TORATI) in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. " Wet noodles are for pasta, just add sauce.
Shavua Tov!

Hi Yeshua, God certainly blessed the day He rested from creating. What is puzzling is that there is no record of anyone observing the seventh-day until just before Sinai. In fact, as God led the slaves out of bondage, which took several weeks, He didn't stop them on His seventh-day during that journey. It seems that it only became a demand after they were safe on the other side of the Red Sea. Then it became so important that those who disobeyed were to be put to death.

The other dilemma that I see is that God never laid observance upon any other group of people. The Sabbath was for Israel exclusively. Why all of a sudden after Jesus broke down the barrier between Jew and Gentile dividing the wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations did it become essential for Christians to begin observing a day? Now, those that observe the Sabbath claim that it is essential for salvation.

Jesus lived under the Sinai covenant and taught under that covenant. He did tell the man to keep the 10 commandments. For those Jews keeping the laws that God required was essential for eternal life, but the law could not save one soul. It was faith that has always saved man. Abraham was saved by faith and you and I will be saved the same way. Keeping the Law is our way of honoring God and our fellow man.

Now the question is what law must we keep in order to please our God. Although I attend an old-line protestant church I am at heart a new covenant believer. I do not follow old covenant ritual law. I do 77777believe in corporate worship and building a refuge for those who are seeking God and His wonderful way of life. I, at one time, believed I had to observe the Sabbath of the old Covenant because it is part of the 10 commandments. I have come to a new consideration. My eyes were opened to the writings of Paul and it changed my life.

I do respect you and your belief system and your love for Jesus. I cherish all that I learned as a Sabbath observer and I look forward to having many more dialogs on this forum. I never fail to learn something good.

Bob S said:

Hi Yeshua, God certainly blessed the day He rested from creating. What is puzzling is that there is no record of anyone observing the seventh-day until just before Sinai.

Click to expand...

Nor a record of anyone being told not to take God's name in vain before Sinai.

but we do have the Sabbath before Sinai in Gen 2:1-3 and we do have the Law of God saying that the Gen 2 fact alone - makes the Sabbath binding on all mankind in Ex 20:11.

I just love "Bible details"

BobRyan said:

Nor a record of anyone being told not to take God's name in vain before Sinai.

but we do have the Sabbath before Sinai in Gen 2:1-3 and we do have the Law of God saying that the Gen 2 fact alone - makes the Sabbath binding on all mankind in Ex 20:11.

I just love "Bible details"

Click to expand...

If we love God and keep His commandments of love why would we want to take His name in vain? Do we have to subject ourselves to the laws of the old covenant in order to know we are sinning when we use His name in vain, Bob? If you really love others will you want to cuss them out, Bob? Since most of the following are not part of the 10 commandments are they lesser sins?
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

If the 10 reveal God's character as you believe and since they do not command love, is love not part of His character, Bob?

Bob S said:

If we love God and keep His commandments of love why would we want to take His name in vain?

Click to expand...

Indeed why would we want to break any of His commandments.

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
And of course - the first commandment with a promise in that still-valid unit of TEN - is the 5th commandment - as Paul reminds us in Eph 6:2

Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you Love Me then Keep My Commandments"
Heb 8:6-12 - Christ is the one giving us those commandments at Sinai.

For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Bible details affirming the moral law of God includes the TEN Commandments -- "sooooo obvious" that even the sunday groups admit to them.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Bob S said:

If we love God and keep His commandments of love why would we want to take His name in vain? Do we have to subject ourselves to the laws of the old covenant in order to know we are sinning when we use His name in vain, Bob? If you really love others will you want to cuss them out, Bob? Since most of the following are not part of the 10 commandments are they lesser sins?
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

Click to expand...

The first 4 Commandments are HOW to love God and the last 5 are HOW we love our neighbor. All the sins you list can be against God and/or your neighbor and also hurts your own self...so in essence they ARE part of the 10...AND are definitely part of Torah...

Bob S said:

SDAs goes so far as to tell us we will lose eternal life if we do not join them on the day they deem as being holy.

Click to expand...

Baloney