Bernie Sanders: Comparing My Socialism to Venezuelan Dictator’s is ‘Extremely Unfair’

GoldenBoy89 said:

Well you see, that’s the thing. No Democratic candidates are promoting socialism in the US. That is a right wing straw man that’s brought in because they can’t rationally argue against any specific policies the candidates are actually running on so they resort to the generic boogeyman of ‘socialism’ and hope it scares enough people not to vote for them.

If you’re curious about the successes of social democracy and its policies, I would point to the Scandinavian social democracies of Europe.

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Medicare for all as presented is a Democratic Socialist of America platform. There is no way around that.

LostMarbels said:

Medicare for all as presented is a Democratic Socialist of America platform. There is no way around that.

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That’s true and I’m saying that the modern democratic socialists running for president (of which, Bernie is the only one) aren't Stalinists, Marxists or National Socialists like Hitler was.

GoldenBoy89 said:

That’s true and I’m saying that the modern democratic socialists running for president (of which, Bernie is the only one) aren't Stalinists, Marxists or National Socialists like Hitler was.

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If you look into the theory of socialism by Joseph Stalin in Socialism in One Country, socialism becomes communism. Socialism can lead to a totalitarian society. Specifically, if the socialism is based around a leader figure or a cadre of oligarchs. There is no guarantee that socialism will be liberal or fair. That why it is important to have social development rather than pure Socialism.

Acts2:38 said:

???

You clearly didnt read the bible friend.

Romans 1:24-27
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Then compare what happened to Sodom.

I never said be rude, hateful, spiteful, violent against homosexuality. It is considered criminal hate speech to speak against it, whether your nice about it or not. If you teach the bible, then you obviously have to teach against homosexuality.

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I know the Bible intimately, having read it several times a year (daily) since I was eight.

Your interpretations do not speak for Jesus, only you.

I call Him 'Lord' and He calls me by my first name.

NightHawkeye said:

Of course not. They never are. Never. They are always revered heroes of the moment. Always.

... and yet the all-powerful consolidation of power which of necessity accompanies socialism always corrupts. ALWAYS.

To anyone with a modicum of understanding about socialism, the prospect of living under it sends shivers up the spine. You can no longer say you haven't been warned.

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Nonsense is the proper answer to the above screed.

The far right has been warned that their version of 'socialism' is not accepted by Real America, particularly the millennials. They won't have any part of that nonsense.

LostMarbels said:

I would support public education with 13, 14, 15, 16th grade for HS grads with the GPA. I do however think our pub schools are lacking, but I would vote for that if done correctly.

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I'm haven't made up my mind about that yet. But that is one of the things the Bernie supports as well as universal healthcare in the form of Medicare4All. Many, many European countries do both and we don't consider them to be Socialist countries, even Trump doesn't.
They are very different from Venezuela and don't look like they will ever become as such.
What have you heard Bernie say that makes you believe that he is championing full blown socialism?

EDIT corrected spelling

LostMarbels said:

I want one example under this broad term of 'socialism' where the leader was not a maniacal psychopath that murder and starved his own people?

One example in the world's history where this socialism thing actually worked.

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A lot of americans call large parts of europe socialist. Especially the nordic countries. Ask them for an example.

Read about it. The theoretical implications of socialisms creation was to avoid bloody conflict of another communist revolution. Slowly heat the water as opposed to throwing a frog into boiling water.

JohnAshton said:

I know the Bible intimately, having read it several times a year (daily) since I was eight.

Your interpretations do not speak for Jesus, only you.

I call Him 'Lord' and He calls me by my first name.

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How is it my interpretation? The context/grammar is all there. Stevie Wonder could see it.

Jude
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1 Cor.6 9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (in the Greek arsenokoitēs- which means: one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual)

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

How do you think Paul came to this conclusion? On his own? You know full well.

Clearly no interpretation of my own, but actual words spoken.

NightHawkeye said:

Of course not. They never are. Never. They are always revered heroes of the moment. Always.

... and yet the all-powerful consolidation of power which of necessity accompanies socialism always corrupts. ALWAYS.

To anyone with a modicum of understanding about socialism, the prospect of living under it sends shivers up the spine. You can no longer say you haven't been warned.

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Meh. I don’t care for your warnings. No one’s promoting what you seem to think is coming. Having a public option for healthcare, investing in higher education and moving towards environmentally conscious energy policy is not the definition of socialism.

NightHawkeye said:

Incorrect.

That is the way it works. Jorge Ramos asked the question. That's the question which deserves to be answered. [Noting that Bernie didn't answer that question.]

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Of course, Ramos can ask whatever he wants. My point is that it's a dishonest and misleading debate tactic. It's a similar trap to the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question. The question itself incriminates without giving a reasonable chance to respond. He could, of course, talk for hours about how each and every one of his policies differs from Maduro's, but that's not feasible in a minute or two on a debate stage, and it's also not productive. If he had legitimate concerns about Bernie's policies and their similarities to Maduro's, he would have asked about those specific policies. Instead, he simply wanted to draw a parallel between them in the minds of the viewers.

So I ask you again: which specific policies of Bernie Sanders do you believe parallel policies enacted by Maduro?

NightHawkeye said:

The difference now is that the pretense has been abandoned. The desperation to achieve socialism NOW is apparent. It's as if they know the gig is up. It's now or never.

It's as if they know the philosophy is so discredited ... and history littered with so many millions of dead bodies from glorious socialist movements ... that the information age will doom, finally doom, socialism to the trash heap of history where it belongs.

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Or you're just, y'know, wrong?

Hank77 said:

What have you heard Bernie say that makes you believe that he is champing full blown socialism?

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The supporters in the streets. It all ties in together. Everything from antifa to gay rights. Every bit of it a democratic talking point.

LostMarbels said:

If you look into the theory of socialism by Joseph Stalin in Socialism in One Country, socialism becomes communism. Socialism can lead to a totalitarian society. Specifically, if the socialism is based around a leader figure or a cadre of oligarchs. There is no guarantee that socialism will be liberal or fair. That why it is important to have social development rather than pure Socialism.

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Lucky for you that NOBODY is pushing for total socialism then.

Can you maybe give us a quick definition what you think socialism means. Because it seems like you're one of those people who think giving people health care makes you equal to Hitler and Stalin.

NightHawkeye said:

The difference now is that the pretense has been abandoned. The desperation to achieve socialism NOW is apparent. It's as if they know the gig is up. It's now or never.

It's as if they know the philosophy is so discredited ... and history littered with so many millions of dead bodies from glorious socialist movements ... that the information age will doom, finally doom, socialism to the trash heap of history where it belongs.

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I'm Not messing with it. I'm ready to go die in a field somewhere to keep it out of this country.

LostMarbels said:

The supporters in the streets. It all ties in together. Everything from antifa to gay rights. Every bit of it a democratic talking point.

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Wait, so only socialists can support equal treatment of gay people under the law???