What does all mean?

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
THIS is why we are to be praying praying praying, FERVENTLY.

That man gave his life in loving self-sacrifice. That's the spirit of God, whether he knew it or not. God will honour him for it, and he'll fall to his knees and cry "Abba, Father!"

Like the girl, God will restore her and wipe the tears from her eyes. And she'll wash His feet with her hair.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
brinny said:
That is not Biblical.
Is it not? I did some digging - over two years or so - and finally found my answer. I knew that God was/is willing, based on Scriptures like Ezekiel 18:23. But...was/is He able? Then, in a flash one day, I realized - God is omnipotent, so OF COURSE He is able! It's simple, really.
God ALREADY provided a "Remedy" to escape from a sure and eternal hell.

The "Remedy" is His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

That is Biblical.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
brinny said:
THIS is why we are to be praying praying praying, FERVENTLY.
That man gave his life in loving self-sacrifice. That's the spirit of God, whether he knew it or not. God will honour him for it, and he'll fall to his knees and cry "Abba, Father!"

Like the girl, God will restore her and wipe the tears from her eyes. And she'll wash His feet with her hair.
I pray that both have grabbed hold of God's outstretched hand of grace at that last moment.
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
God ALREADY provided a "Remedy" to escape from a sure and eternal hell.

The "Remedy" is His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

That is Biblical.

The application of the remedy: First Corinthians 3:15.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I pray that both have done so.

So hell for you could be populated with the heroes and victims of this life. Guess that's where I'll be then, either by choice or default.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
The application of the remedy: First Corinthians 3:15.

This is referring to the redeemed, those who have repented and accepted God's grace through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

It is not referring to those who have rejected this grace and remain unrepentant.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,396
81
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟528,512.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Are you trying to make people go cross-eyed? Reading this on your phone is like: llllllllllhhhhhhhh55556bbbb;605"#@?97642...what!

Dear Ren: I will bet on my favorite wife's life that you will not be able to see a difference.

As Teddy Ruxpin would say, somethings not quite right
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
brinny said:
Hell is what God states it is in His Word.
And not what you think, correct.
I have posted based on what is written in God's Word.

His Word WILL stand. Nothing can destroy it. His Truth in His Word WILL shine forth.

It WILL accomplish what God sends it out to do. We are to SPEAK and PROCLAIM His Word.

It WILL take root and bear fruit, for it is GOD Who waters it.

Father may it be so, in Jesus' name, amen.

iu
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: AbbaLove
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is referring to the redeemed, those who have repented and accepted God's grace through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

It is not referring to those who have rejected this grace and remain unrepentant.

Oh, but there is the context, in verse 11: "For other foundation can no man lay than is laid which is Jesus Christ." Is the meaning not clear?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AbbaLove
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
brinny said:
This is referring to the redeemed, those who have repented and accepted God's grace through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

It is not referring to those who have rejected this grace and remain unrepentant.
Oh, but there is the context, in verse 11: "For other foundation can no man lay than is laid which is Jesus Christ." Is the meaning not clear?
Jesus IS the Foundation. It is on HIM that the repentant find refuge, including refuge from the coming wrath of God for those who remain unrepentant.
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus IS the Foundation. It is on HIM that the repentant find refuge, including refuge from the coming wrath of God for those who remain unrepentant.

You missed. Shall I restate? Verse 11 is a sort of double negative, so let me rephrase it for clarity.

"For other foundation can no man lay than is laid which is Jesus Christ."

Is equivalent to:

For all men lay this foundation which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Is it clear now? This applies to ALL, not just the followers of the Christ.
 
Upvote 0

public hermit

social troglodyte
Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
10,966
12,052
East Coast
✟830,414.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There seems to be this assumption that the concept of hell must be either all or nothing. Either hell is eternal or all people go to heaven. Among some early, Greek speaking Christians there was a third possibility, i.e. that hell is redemptive. This was based on the notion of redemption as epektasis. Gregory of Nyssa would be one who seemed to embrace this idea.

I'm not necessarily promoting one or the other, or the other. But, if we're going to have fifty threads on this, maybe it would help to explore that third possibility as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament

William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

[A translation & adaptation of Wm. Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schrift en des Neueu Testaments und der uberigen]

PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).

  1. adj., used w. a noun—a. w. the noun in the sing. without the art.—a.
Emphasizing the individual members of the class denoted by the noun every, each, any, scarcely different in mng. fr. the pl. ‘all’: pa’n devndron Mt 3:10; Lk 3:9. pa’sa futeiva Mt 15:13. pa’sa favragx, pa’n o[ro" Lk 3:5 (Is 40:4). pa’" tovpo" 4:37. pa’" a[nqrwpo" J 1:9; 2:10; Ro 3:4 (Ps 115:2); Gal 5:3; Col 1:28a, b, d; Js 1:19. pa’n e[qno" Ac 17:26a. pa’sa yuchv (Pla., Phaedr. 249e) 2:43; 3:23 (cf. Lev 23:29); Ro 2:9. pa’sa hJmevra Ac 5:42; 17:17. pa’n savbbaton 18:4. pa’sa ajrch; kai; pa’sa ejxousiva 1 Cor 15:24. pa’sa suneivdhsi" 2 Cor 4:2. pa’" a{gio" Phil 4:21. pa’" oi\ko" Hb 3:4. pa’sa ajntilogiva 7:7. pa’sa paideiva all discipline 12:11. pa’" ojfqalmov" Rv 1:7a. pa’n ktivsma 5:13a.—Mt 23:35; Lk 2:23 (Ex 13:2); 4:13; 21:36; 2 Th 2:4 (Da 11:36). pa’sa ktivsi" every creature Col 1:15; ejn pavsh/ ktivsei to every creature vs. 23. pa’sa grafhv 2 Ti 3:16 (cf. grafhv 2a).

—In the OT, also En. (1, 9) and Test. Gad 7:2, but not in Ep. Arist., Philo, nor Joseph., is pa’sa savrx (r`;oBƒAlK all flesh Lk 3:6 (Is 40:5). Mostly w. a neg. (so also En. 14, 21; 17, 6) ouj (or mhv). . . pa’sa savrx no flesh=no one Mt 24:22; Mk 13:20; Ro 3:20; 1 Cor 1:29; Gal 2:16. Other sim. neg. expressions are also Hebraistic (cf. Bl-D. §302, 1; Mlt.-H. 433f) ouj. . . pa’n rJh’ma not a thing, nothing Lk 1:37 (cf. PRyl. 113, 12f [133 ad] mh;. . . pa’n pra’gma). oujdevpote e[fagon pa’n koinovn I have never eaten anything common Ac 10:14. Cf. Rv 7:1, 16; 9:4; 21:27. Also in reverse order, pa’". . . ouj or mhv (Ex 12:16; Sir 8:19; 10:6, but s. also GMLee, ET 63, ‘51f, 156) 18:22; Eph 4:29; 5:5; 2 Pt 1:20; 1J 2:21; 3:15b.—Only rarely is a ptc. used w. pa’" in this way: panto;" ajkouvonto" when anyone hears Mt 13:19. panti; ojfeivlonti Lk 11:4 (Mlt.-Turner 196f).

b. including everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun every kind of, all sorts of,

For the words pantodapov" and pantoi’o", which are lacking in our lit.: pa’sa novso" kai; pa’sa malakiva Mt 4:23. gevmousin pavsh" ajkaqarsiva" they are full of all kinds of uncleanness 23:27. pa’sa ejxousiva 28:18. ajpo; panto;" e[qnou" from every kind of nation Ac 2:5. Cf. 7:22; 13:10a, b; Ro 1:18, 29. pa’sa ejpiqumiva (evil) desire of every kind 7:8. ejn panti; lovgw/ kai; pavsh/ gnwvsei 1 Cor 1:5b. pa’n aJmavrthma every kind of sin 6:18. Cf. 2 Cor 7:1; 9:8b, c; 10:5a, b; Eph 1:3, 8, 21 a; 4:19; 5:3; Phil 1:9; 2 Th 2:17. pa’n e[rgon ajgaqovn Tit 1:16; 3:1. Cf. 2:14; Hb 13:21. pa’sa dovsi", pa’n dwvrhma Js 1:17 (W-S. §20, 11b). Cf. vs. 21; 1 Pt 2:1 a, b; Rev 8:7 al.

c. every, any and every, just any, any at all mh;

Panti; pneuvmati pisteuvete do not believe just any spirit 1J 4:1. periferovmenoi panti; ajnevmw/ th’" didaskaliva" Eph 4:14. peri; panto;" pravgmato" about anything Mt 18:19. kata; pa’san au]tivan for any reason at all 19:3. Cf. 4:4=Lk 4:4 t.r. (Dt 8:3); Mt 12:31; 2 Cor 1:4b (on ejpi; pavsh/ th’/ qlivyei hJmw’n vs. 4a see 1cb below).

d. to denote the highest degree full, greatest, all

(Pla., Rep. 9 p. 575a; Demosth. 18, 279 al.; LXX) meta; parrhsiva" pavsh" Ac 4:29. ejn pavsh/ ajsfaleiva/ 5:23. pavsh/ suneidhvsei ajgaqh’/ in all good conscience 23:1. Cf. 17:11; 24:3; 2 Cor 9:8b; 12:12; Eph 4:2. ejn pavsh/ proskarterhvsei with the greatest perseverance 6:18c. Cf. Phil 1:20; 2:29; Col 1:11a, b; 1 Ti 2:2b, 11; 3:4; 4:9; 5:2; Tit 2:15; Js 1:2; 2 Pt 1:5; Jd 3 al. ajskei’n pa’san uJpomonhvn practice patient endurance to the limit Pol 9:1 (Kleist).

e. all, the whole before proper names, mostly geographic

(X., Hell. 4, 8, 28 prostavtai pavsh" Levsbou e[sontai al.; LXX) pa’sa JIerosovluma Mt 2:3 (s. JIer.). pa’" jIsrahvl (3 Km 8:65; 11:16; 1 Esdr 1:19; 5:45, 58; Jdth 15:14) Ro 11:26 (cf. W-S. §20, 11a and b; Rob. 772).

The OT is also the source of pa’" oi\ko" jIsrahvl (1 Km 7:2, 3) Ac 2:36 and, in subject matter, ejpi; panto;" proswvpou th’" gh’" 17:26b (but Gen 2:6 has pa’n to; provswpon th’" gh’", and 7:23; 11:4, 8, 9 ejpi; proswvpou [or provswpon¼ pavsh" th’" gh’").—Perh. pa’sa oijkodomhv Eph 2:21 (cf. W-S. §20:11 b; Rob. 772; Mlt.-Turner 199f; MDibelius, Hdb. ad loc.; M. Ant. 6, 36, 1; Dit., Or. 383, 86ff).

b. w. a noun in the pl., without the art. pavnte" a[nqrwpoi all men, everyone

(Lysias 12, 60; Andoc. 3, 25; X., Cyr. 7, 5, 52, Mem. 4, 4, 19; Demosth. 8, 5; 18, 72) Ac 22:15; Ro 5:12a, 18a, b; 12:17, 18; 1 Cor 7:7; 15:19; 2 Cor 3:2; Phil 4:5; 1 Th 2:15; 1 Ti 2:4; 4:10; Tit 2:11. pavnte" a[ggeloi qeou’ Hb 1:6 (Dt 32:43. Cf. Demosth. 18, 294 pavnte" qeoiv).

c. w. a noun in the sing., w. the art.—a. the whole, all

(the), preceding a noun that has the art.: pa’sa hJ jIoudaiva kai; pa’sa hJ perivcwro" Mt 3:5. pa’sa hJ ajgevlh the whole herd 8:32. Cf. vs. 34; 13:2; 21:10; 27:25, 45; Mk 2:13; 4:1. pa’sa hJ ajlhvqeia 5:33. pa’sa hJ ktivsi" the whole creation Mk 16:15; Ro 8:22. Cf. Lk 1:10; 2:1, 10; Ac 3:9, 11; 5:21; 15:12. pa’" oJ kovsmo" Ro 3:19b; Col 1:6. pa’n to; spevrma Ro 4:16. pa’sa hJ gh’ 9:17 (Ex 9:16); Lk 4:25. pa’sa hJ gnw’si", pa’sa hJ pivsti" 1 Cor 13:2b, c. pa’n to; plhvrwma Eph 3:19; Col 1:19; 2:9. pa’n to; sw’ma Eph 4:16; Col 2:19. Cf. Hb 9:19b,

c.—W. a demonstrative pron. pa’" oJ lao;" ou|to" all these people Lk 9:13.

pa’sa hJ ojfeilh; ejkeivnh Mt 18:32.—Following the noun that has the article: th;n krivsin pa’san the whole matter of judgment J 5:22. eu]" th;n ajlhvqeian pa’san into truth in all its outreach 16:13. th;n ejxousivan. . . pa’san Rev 13:12.

b. all ejpi; pavsh/ th’/ qlivyei hJmw’n in all our trouble 2 Cor 1:4a (on ejn pavsh/ qlivyei vs. 4b s. 1ag above); 7:4; 1 Th 3:7. ejpi; pavsh/ th’ mneiva/ uJmw’n in all remembrance of you Phil 1:3. pa’san th;n mevrimnan uJmw’n all your care 1 Pet 5:7.

g. Oft. pa’" oJ, pavsa hJ, pa’n tov is used w. a ptc. every one who, whoever pa’"

oJ (Soph., Aj. 152; Demosth. 23, 97; Sir 22:2, 26; 1 Macc 1:52; 2:27) pa’" oJ ojrgizovmeno" Mt 5:22. Cf. vs. 28, 32; 7:8, 26 (=pa’" o{sti" vs. 24; s. g below); Lk 6:47; 11:10; 14:11; 16:18; 18:14; 19:26; J 3:8, 15f, 20; 4:13; 6:40; 8:34; 18:37; Ac 10:43b; 13:39; Ro 2:1, 10; 10:4, 11; 1 Cor 9:25; Gal 3:13; 2 Ti 2:19; Hb 5:13; 1 J 2:23, 29 al.; 2 J 9; Rv 22:18.—pa’n tov everything that (1 Macc 10:41): pa’n to; eijsporeuovmenon Mt 15:17; Mk 7:18. pa’n to; ojfeilovmenon Mt 18:34. pa’n to; pwlouvmenon 1 Cor 10:25; cf. vs. 27. pa’n to; fanerouvmenon Eph 5:14. pa’n to; gegennhmevnon 1J 5:4.

—An equivalent of this expr. is pa’" o{" (or o{sti"), pa’n o{ every one who, whatever (s. g above and cf. Bl-D. §293, 1; 413, 2; Rob. 727; 957), masc.: Mt 7:24; 10:32; 19:29; Lk 12:8, 10 (RHolst, ZNW 63, ‘72, 122-4), 48; 14:33; Ac 2:21 (pa’" o}" ejavn, after Jo 2:32); Ro 10:13 (pa’" o}" a[n, after Jo 3:5); Gal 3:10. Neut. (Jdth 12:14.—Jos., Ant. 5, 211 pa’n o{=pavnte" oiJ): J 6:37, 39; 17:2b; Ro 14:23 (o}n a[n); Col 3:17 (pa’n o{ti ejavn).

d. w. a noun in the pl., w. the art. all—

a. w. substantives: pa’sai aiJ geneaiv Mt 1:17; Lk 1:48; Eph 3:21. pavnta" tou;" ajrcierei’" Mt 2:4. Cf. vs. 16; 4:8; 11:13; Mk 4:13, 31f; 6:33; Lk 1:6; 2:51; 6:26; J 18:20; Ac 1:18; 3:18; 10:12, 43a; 14:16; Ro 1:5; 15:11 (Ps 116:1); 16:4; 1 Cor 12:26a, b; 2 Cor 8:18; 11:28; Eph 4:10; 6:16b; Col 2:13; 1 Ti 6:10; Hb 4:4 (Gen 2:2); 9:21; Js 1:8; Rv 1:7b; 7:11; 15:4 al.

—Used w. a demonstr. pron.: pa’sai aiJ parqevnoi ejkei’nai Mt 25:7. pavnta" tou;" lovgou" touvtou" 26:1. pavnta ta; rJhvmata tau’ta Lk 1:65; 2:19.

—Somet. following the noun: ta;" povlei" pavsa" Mt 9:35; Ac 8:40. oiJ maqhtai; pavnte" the disciples, one and all Mt 26:56. aiJ quvrai pa’sai Ac 16:26a. Cf. Ro 16:16; 1 Cor 7:17; 13:2a; 15:7; 16:20; 1 Th 5:26; 2 Ti 4:21; Rv 8:3. oiJ JIerosolumi’tai pavnte" Mk 1:5.—On the position of ejkei’no", e{neka, pa’" cf. NTurner, Vetus T V '55, 208-13.

b. w. participles pavnte" oiJ: pavnte" oiJ kakw’"

e[conte" Mt 4:24. pavnte" oiJ kopiw’nte" 11:28; cf. 21:12; 26:52; Lk 1:66; 2:47; 13:17; Ac 1:19; 2:44; 4:16; 5:5, 11; 6:15; 9:14; 28:30; Ro 1:7; 4:11; 1 Cor 1:2; Eph 6:24; 1 Th 1:7; 2 Th 1:10; 2 Ti 3:12; 4:8; Hb 5:9; 13:24; 2J 1; Rv 13:8; 18:24. Following the ptc. oiJ katoikou’nte" pavnte" Ac 2:14. ejn toi’" hJgiasmevnoi" pa’sin 20:32.—pavnta tav: pavnta ta; genovmena Mt 18:31. pavnta ta; uJpavrconta 24:47; Lk 12:44; 1 Cor 13:3. Cf. Lk 17:10; 18:31; 21:36; J 18:4; Ac 10:33b. Used w. a demonstr. pron.: peri; pavntwn tw’n sumbebhkovtwn touvtwn Lk 24:14. Following: ta; ginovmena pavnta 9:7.

Words are subject to the context(s) in which they are used to convey/communicate a understanding (intended meaning). Context can be a word, group of words, sentences, phrases, paragraphs, pages, chapters, complete manuscripts/books, and on and on. Words can and are used factually and/or symbolically and/or metaphorically as well.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,163
2,606
✟877,129.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Like the 15 year old rape victim who leaves a suicide note rejecting God for not saving her. Hellbound?

I think of it this way. We have hope for every individual in one hand and the knowledge that is only through faith in Jesus in the other hand. We never let these two hands meet.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,783
114,476
✟1,339,553.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
brinny said:
Jesus IS the Foundation. It is on HIM that the repentant find refuge, including refuge from the coming wrath of God for those who remain unrepentant.
You missed. Shall I restate? Verse 11 is a sort of double negative, so let me rephrase it for clarity.

"For other foundation can no man lay than is laid which is Jesus Christ."

Is equivalent to:

For all men lay this foundation which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Is it clear now? This applies to ALL, not just the followers of the Christ.
No.

It means that only Jesus Christ IS the Foundation, and no man can lay another "Foundation".
 
Upvote 0

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Oh Brinny.
Okay, how about the atheist war hero who gives his life singlehandedly holding back the enemy to allow time for the women and children to escape to safety.
Is he hellbound?
Yep, according to scripture he is.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums