The Fear of Hell

Noxot said:

I'm getting more and more convinced that the people that go to hell deserve to be there. It makes me breathe a sigh of relief. God knows what he's doing!

Click to expand...

The question is not "does God know what He is doing" the question is whether or not to take those warnings seriously.... as if they are real... as if the God of all the universe would not waste His time warning about things that are not ever going to happen.

In the OT God warned Israel repeatedly and they kept falling back into the mindset of "yeah but God would not really do it "

So while I do believe that hell is literal, it is real it is exactly as John describes it in Rev 20 .. "Lake of fire and brimstone".

Yet it is also literally true that God destroys "both body and soul in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28 rather than breathing eternal life into them and keeping them alive forever in it.

A fair argument. However, Jesus also described the full horror of what exactly Hell meant (eternal separation from God) and He was also speaking to a predominantly Jewish audience, who, arguably, would have some understand the depth of that punishment.

We (or at least those of us in much of the Western World) live in a post-Enlightenment society. Many people are deistic at best, so if they believe in a God, they don't think He particularly cares about people, let alone that He would make a way for us to be close to Him. Some atheists of a more Dawkinsian persuasions do not think the Christian God is one that is worth worshipping. Our culture also has a warped, cartoonish view of Hell and Heaven. Some people go so far as to say they hope they go to Hell because it seems more interesting. As a result, telling people that their sin will lead to an eternity in Hell results in a shrug and a "So what?"

Furthermore, the verses you selected have context and should be considered in those contexts.

• Matthew 7:13-14 describes the punishment of Hell, but it comes towards the end of the Sermon on the Mount, and the character of God (His providence and perfection in particular) comes up quite a bit in the chapters before it, whether through direct statements or through implications.
• Luke 12:5 is directed from Jesus to His disciples, who, being particularly close to Him, have grown to know the character of God rather well. Mark 9:43 (at least from what I can tell) is similarly addressed to His disciples, particularly John who asked the question Jesus is responding to. True, other people are present, and the information given is applicable to all of us, but the statements themselves are contextually in conversations with people who already know a) who God is and b) what Hell entails.

It's not wrong to preach regarding Hell, and Jesus absolutely spoke about it, but by and large, telling unsaved people that Hell is real and is something to be feared will mean nothing to them unless we explain what Hell is and who God is, so I think that it's important to define terms to non-believers based on their understanding of God and of Hell.

Jonaitis said:

It is essential if we want to preach the gospel. We should inform them what the nature of hell is, that they may understand the gravity of it and turn from sin to Christ.

Click to expand...

It never makes people turn from sin, but only makes sin even worse, and never truly leads them to Christ either...

They need to be taught to fear God, not hell specifically...

Fear of punishment, never produces true obedience, and we should all know that by now, but respect and awe and great reverence for God is another matter entirely...

God Bless!

Jonaitis said:

Rather, God operates in the heart of a sinner through the preaching of the word to tremble at the warnings and to seek salvation in Christ.

Click to expand...

The Law, and its harshness, brings condemnation. It is the Gospel, in its sweetness, through which God operates to bring the lost home.

No one was ever saved by the message of hell. Because hell doesn't save anyone. Only Jesus Christ and His Gospel saves.

-CryptoLutheran

Jonaitis said:

What is hell but the fear of God's wrath? You cannot separate them.

Click to expand...

Fear of God's wrath or whatever (punishment, etc, already discussed) is not the kind of fear that ever produces true obedience, ever...

Deep awe and reverence and respect for God's person and who He is is another matter entirely...

You really think fear of God's wrath ever produces true obedience...? Or the kind God is really looking for, etc...?

It's been proven, doesn't work, and actually does the opposite...

God Bless!

1 John 4:18 (is talking about the wrong kind of fear) (the one having to do with punishment) "There is no (none of this kind of) fear in love, but perfect love casts out (this kind of) fear. For (this kind of) fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears (with this kind of fear) has not been perfected in love.

And I would like to add will never ever be or become truly obedient, ever...

God Bless!

Jonaitis said:

No one was ever saved from just hearing the good news.

Click to expand...

"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentile. Through it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" - Romans 1:16-17

"For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!' But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?' So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:11-17

-CryptoLutheran

Jonaitis said:

I agree, reverent fear brings obedience, but we cannot deny that God also uses the fear of the Law and punishment to draw sinners to a mind of soberness. Obly telling people about the love of God does nothing for them. They will trample on it. They must understand why the good news is good news.

Click to expand...

The Law is our tutor leading to Christ, (that might begin with that kind of fear, etc) but those now or then, or are then, or do truly become in Christ afterward, are no longer under, or are no longer having any more need of being under a/the tutor anymore...

God Bless!

Jonaitis said:

Let me ask, how does the law tutor us to Christ? In what way?

Click to expand...

By our trying, then our failure to live up to it, like this post I did in another thread here (below)...

You may not realize that the NT raises the bar even way higher than what just the letter of the Ten Commandments expresses, by the letter of them... and it is our, at first, (and this is a necessary first step that if you haven't taken yet, you are not even born again yet, cause you have to die or allow the commandments to kill you and your own will first)... Anyway, the NT raises the bar much much higher than the letter of the ten expresses, and you must first acknowledge your failure to be able to live up to or keep them in your own will and strength, then die to your own will, then you can become born again, and embrace His will or power working in and through you and not your own, and then begin the walk of Him sanctifying you, and not you sanctifying yourself, and hope that near the end of that walk, there is some chance of you living up to and keeping them fully, but only if it is not done in your own will and power that you were supposed to die to, for if you do go back to trying to do it in your own will, you will not only be completely unsuccessful, but it will be like going back to start all over again, and you'll have to try and walk it out again, by His will and not your own all over again...

Don't know if you realize that or not, but that's just the plain truth of it...

That's Grace and so that He gets all the credit and not yourself...

God Bless!


It may at first involve this kind of fear, that never leads to true obedience, but afterward could lead to true obedience, but only if that kind of fear is no longer present or there anymore afterward, etc...

After it brings you to the feet of Christ, then you need to not fear that way anymore, if you wish to ever make any forward progress after that, otherwise it will just take you back and backwards, and to having to start all over again after that... Need to avoid people that try to take you back to that after that, etc... If your sure you have, etc...

BobRyan said:

The question is not "does God know what He is doing" the question is whether or not to take those warnings seriously.... as if they are real... as if the God of all the universe would not waste His time warning about things that are not ever going to happen.

In the OT God warned Israel repeatedly and they kept falling back into the mindset of "yeah but God would not really do it "

So while I do believe that hell is literal, it is real it is exactly as John describes it in Rev 20 .. "Lake of fire and brimstone".

Yet it is also literally true that God destroys "both body and soul in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28 rather than breathing eternal life into them and keeping them alive forever in it.

Click to expand...

I don't understand God according to authoritarianism. I understand God according to relationship. so obviously you and I would have very different understandings about God and His doings. And we will have different ways of how we interact with God.

Some people only know the language of violence and fear. How else could God even help them if they will not listen to a word he says?

BobRyan said:

Amen!

If there was no problem -- we would not need the Gospel solution and Christ died needlessly.

Click to expand...

You are correct. It is when the conscience is fully awakened to realise the awful and dismal state of the sinner and the real prospect of ending up in hell and the eternal wrath of God for their sinfulness, that when the gospel is presented, it is really good news to them.

Jonaitis said:

I've noticed that some here think it is wrong to preach that unless people will repent they will end up in hell, saying we shouldn't scare people into the kingdom. I beg to differ. Hell is something to be feared and avoided at all costs, and it is one that should exhort and encourage sinners to get right with God.

Did Jesus ever preach hell to make sinners fear of entering it? Yes!

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" - Mark 9:43

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." - Luke 12:5

There are many other such passages. It would be wrong to leave that part out of our evangelism to the lost, for Jesus never was silent about it!

Click to expand...

I think you have to be careful. Lord Jesus preached a great deal about the Kingdom of God. The first ever evangelistic rally made no mention of hell. 3,000 believers were added that day. By all means preach that sinners are disqualified from entering heaven. People need to be convicted of their sin and need to know that they are judged and found wanting. It's more that sinners are rejected by God than where they will end up. Luke 12:5 is followed by the exhortation not to fear. People need to know that God is far more interested in saving them than condemning them.

Jonaitis said:

I've noticed that some here think it is wrong to preach that unless people will repent they will end up in hell, saying we shouldn't scare people into the kingdom. I beg to differ. Hell is something to be feared and avoided at all costs, and it is one that should exhort and encourage sinners to get right with God.

Did Jesus ever preach hell to make sinners fear of entering it? Yes!

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" - Mark 9:43

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." - Luke 12:5

There are many other such passages. It would be wrong to leave that part out of our evangelism to the lost, for Jesus never was silent about it!

Click to expand...

I have no trouble with hell being preached. If it is hidden away then there is a problem. However not every body needs hell fire and brimstone preaching to come to God. The bible says:

Jud 1:22-23 And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

Although that verse is talking about Christians, it also applies to sinners. There are many different types of people in the world. Those who are hurting, some caught in guilt, some willfully sinning. It is no good to present a God of hellfire to a hurting person, nor to one who knows their guilt.

Different people need a different message. This is why Jesus said when witnessing, "DON'T pre-mediate what you will say, for your father will speak through you". If we charge out into the world with any one message we are headed to cause more hurt than good, ultimately it will not hurt too much, but it will still hurt.

When witnessing we should be listening for the voice of our father, not just presenting facts.