Were the angels lying?

Pedra said:

I won't play your little games.

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Yeah, I'm not playing the word games either.

Pedra said:

Ironic that today on a Christian forum is where false teachings are given full rein.

Why must you obviously use insults?
Is it because you believe in universal salvation?
I won't play your little games.

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i agree.

Especially those games of tampering with members posts when quoting them and then denying it.

It's deceptive.

brinny said:

i agree.

Especially those games of tampering with members posts when quoting them and then denying it.

It's deceptive.

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If someone does that, make sure you report it. It's a violation of Forum rules.

James Murphy said:

If someone does that, make sure you report it. It's a violation of Forum rules.

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i agree it's a violation.

They then edited to cover their tracks.

brinny said:

i agree it's a violation.

They then edited to cover their tracks.

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The mods can still see that.

Pedra said:

Ironic that today on a Christian forum is where false teachings are given full rein.

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I agree, Many Ideas and doctrines I knew nothing about before joining here..... If this was the first thread that one sees, it would be an introduction to universalism, by you and not the OP. I have to search the web to understand what you mean.....after which, I would find pages both supportive and non-supportive both giving very good arguments that I now have to consider.....the fruits of a seed planted the use of a word not found in scripture. I just think it best, if possible, to stay in scripture.

Pedra said:

Why must you obviously use insults? Is it because you believe in universal salvation?
I won't play your games.

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My apologies, if you found insult in these words....for I did not mean to put those feelings in them.

Only want to explain that I can understand the use of the word and find no fault in it, as it is the only option for some.

James Murphy said:

The mods can still see that.

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Thanks.

brinny said:

i agree.

Especially those games of tampering with members posts when quoting them and then denying it.

It's deceptive.

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Who are you accusing of tampering with quoted posts?

RaymondG said:

Who are you accusing of tampering with quoted posts?

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Not you Raymond.

They know who they are.

FineLinen said:

"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

Questions

1. Were the angels lying?

2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?

3. What does all mean?

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Quite a question.
The angels are making a proclamation of truth, not something one can question. They speak from the creator, who has judged this proclamation of good news and something to rejoice at.

Now to those who hate God, who wish all things that He does to be destroyed, this is bad news and something they hate.

And this is what you are getting at. The proclamation is one spoken from a set perspective.

But this is satans argument with God. It is Gods perspective, there is another way. And Gods answer is prove it. So satan is saying for the evil sinner, who destroys what he touches and wishes to dominate and consume all in his path, this is news of ultimate failure and judgement. But eternally and in truth, though they hate this reality, it is still good news, that justice, love, honesty, righteousness and truth will prevail.

The ironic thing is if one believes in destruction, one will destroy oneself, so you could almost say judgement is not necessary, the very acts bring about the loss of that which evil people want to keep. And this is why it is the light that shines in the darkness, that shows the pit of self destruction is just pointless and without hope. God bless you

RaymondG said:

I agree, Many Ideas and doctrines I knew nothing about before joining here..... If this was the first thread that one sees, it would be an introduction to universalism, by you and not the OP. I have to search the web to understand what you mean.....after which, I would find pages both supportive and non-supportive both giving very good arguments that I now have to consider.....the fruits of a seed planted the use of a word not found in scripture. I just think it best, if possible, to stay in scripture.


My apologies, if you found insult in these words....for I did not mean to put those feelings in them.

Only want to explain that I can understand the use of the word and find no fault in it, as it is the only option for some.

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There you go again.
I did not introduce , "universalism" ie. universal salvation which is what the OP seems to be posting.
I think it is you who is disingenuous, apologies is only a word.
You know full well if you believe that every one will be saved or not. I'm not into word games or mind games.

Pity.....that most times my experience of going on this forum is the fartherest from a Christian environment that I experience in my life.

I see a pattern developing here.

A bizarre, incomprehensible pattern, but a pattern nonetheless.

FineLinen said:

"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

Questions

1. Were the angels lying?

2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?

3. What does all mean?

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1. No.

2. No.

3. All people in the election from the foundations of the world. The good news is that the HUMANS that are/were always part of the Most High God's election will be redeemed by the One who is the subject of countless Hebrew prophecies.

That, obviously, is not *all* people, but considering Israel is a people, is would be implied the angel is talking about only those eligible and part of the election/redemption.

topher694 said:

I see a pattern developing here.

A bizarre, incomprehensible pattern, but a pattern nonetheless.

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i agree.

FineLinen said:

Dear L.L.H.: The angels are indeed proclaiming the truth out of the Presence of the Glorious One.

That truth is the glad tidings of great joy from God are for the radical all. They are not only megas in scope, they are megas joy of spacious proportions of exceedingly great scale of highly esteemed excellence!

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This makes no sense.

timewerx said:

Technically, it's not lying.
The message was indeed announced to everyone eventually, only some took some 2,000 years for them to hear the message

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In defense of the scripture (Luke 2:10), it does say “which shall be, or that will cause” (depending on translation) great joy for all people. That leaves open an exact ‘when’ for those who will accept it, covering those of us 2,000 years later. But, as I said earlier, the message is for all, even though not all will accept it. The Holy Spirit reveals God to all men, through OT and NT messages, and even before and outside the availability of scripture (Romans 1:18-20). We are without excuse when it comes to God’s communication to us, no matter when or where we lived.

FineLinen said:

"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

Questions

1. Were the angels lying?

2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?

3. What does all mean?

Click to expand...

this feels like you're building a strawman.

DamianWarS said:

this feels like you're building a strawman.

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Jesus in His preaching spread a net far and wide, and then over time showed the cost and implications of following Him. I draw from this part of the gospel is the door is open to all it is up to those who wish to follow are they prepared to change and give up their life to walk in Jesus's footsteps.

To answer such a question one has to listen to what He is saying.
This process creates a dilemma between a universal message but with conditions.

Not surprisingly some stay with the universal side, and some with the conditions, because holding only one polarised view is always easier than balancing the road of discipleship and revelation.

I have spoken to some who are so afraid of love leaving them, the only faith they accept is a gift once given will never go wrong, and others who have no certainty or foundation, so must suffer and make things so tough, only then they could possibly be worthy of such a gift.

Jesus seems to be saying in eternity everything is balanced, and what we think of certainty is actually about love and openness to God, which is why satan managed to fall and take so many with him. God bless you

DamianWarS said: ↑
this feels like you're building a strawman.

Click to expand...

LightLoveHope said:

Jesus in His preaching spread a net far and wide, and then over time showed the cost and implications of following Him. I draw from this part of the gospel is the door is open to all it is up to those who wish to follow are they prepared to change and give up their life to walk in Jesus's footsteps.

To answer such a question one has to listen to what He is saying.
This process creates a dilemma between a universal message but with conditions.

Not surprisingly some stay with the universal side, and some with the conditions, because holding only one polarised view is always easier than balancing the road of discipleship and revelation.

I have spoken to some who are so afraid of love leaving them, the only faith they accept is a gift once given will never go wrong, and others who have no certainty or foundation, so must suffer and make things so tough, only then they could possibly be worthy of such a gift.

Jesus seems to be saying in eternity everything is balanced, and what we think of certainty is actually about love and openness to God, which is why satan managed to fall and take so many with him. God bless you

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This makes no sense.