The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

BobRyan

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There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true

1. Not the topic of this thread.
2. Those who want to argue that nobody knows what the Ten Commandments are - are free to start such a topic thread... I may join in that one too depending on how serious it is.
 
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Bob S

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Because we don't like "making stuff up".. apparently.

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in the OT.
If a Gentile for some reason wanted to become an Israelite God allowed it. In all of history, we cannot find any other nation that was ever commanded to observe a day. Jethro, Moses' father-in-law was a believer yet there is no evidence either of them observed a day until after Israel's escape across the Red Sea when God introduced the Sabbath to all of them.

Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Is66:23 is pure nonsense when trying to prove He is referring to the Heaven Jesus has in place for us. In Isaiah 66 Sabbath worship and walking among the dead bodies is the plan for those who make it to heaven In Is 65 man will live to over 100 and then die. Those that rebel in heaven will not make it to 100. This account certainly does not represent the Heaven I believe. Adventists teach that men and women will not propagate in heaven yet Isaiah tells a different story. And another thing about those two chapters that do not jive is that in chapter 65 Isaiah tells us that we won't remember the past life, but in chapter 66 we will walk among those that didn't make it alive to heaven, but their bodies made it. Yep, an absolutely poor proof text Bob.
 
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BobRyan

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None of you Sabbath salespeople ever mention that Israel was God's children. You never mention that all the remainder of God's family were never asked to observe a day.

Because we don't like "making stuff up".. apparently.

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in the OT.
Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

No wonder all those Sunday keeping groups admit that all TEN of the Ten commandments are in the moral law of God and apply to all mankind.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

Is66:23 is pure nonsense

pick another option.

Is 66
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me
,” says the Lord.

nonsense when trying to prove He is referring to the Heaven

Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

If a Gentile for some reason wanted to become an Israelite God allowed it...
True but then they are no longer called gentiles... "the uncircumcision" of Eph 2.

I think we all knew that... no "news' there.

Isaiah 56:6-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

Rather than "all nations" moving to Israel as one nation.. God was calling for all nations to worship the one true God... like He does still to this very day.

Again.. as I said before - this is not "news"
 
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BobRyan

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Is 9
3 You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
They will be glad in Your presence
As with the gladness of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
4 For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian.
5 For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fue
l for the fire.
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace
.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.

The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

So we point out that vs 6 applies to the birth of Christ -- yet other aspects of chapter 9 do not happen at the birth of Christ. So it is with other sections of Isaiah ...

No "news" there.

Now back to Is 66:23

Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
 
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DamianWarS

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Is 9
3 You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
They will be glad in Your presence
As with the gladness of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
4 For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian.
5 For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fue
l for the fire.
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace
.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.

The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

So we point out that vs 6 applies to the birth of Christ -- yet other aspects of chapter 9 do not happen at the birth of Christ. So it is with other sections of Isaiah ...

No "news" there.

Now back to Is 66:23

Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

I speak a language where the word for month/moon are the same word and the word for sunday/week are the same word. This language obviously sees Sunday as the focal day of the week but in Hebrew, this day was the Sabbath and this is common in concrete languages, and Hebrew is an extremely concrete language. So instead of saying in 3 months, they would say in 3 moons. or instead of saying in 3 weeks they would say in 3 Sabbaths.

"one Sabbath to another" in practice means "week to week" and likewise "one new moon to another" in practice means "month to month". the meaning of the verse is not that all mankind will observe the Sabbath which would be inconsistent with the "new moon" example. It means that mankind will worship all days.

it's used this way biblically to often to mark the specific the day of the week. For example 1Co 16:2 starts with "upon the first day of the week..." this is literally "upon first sabbath" Sabbath here is being used in reference to the week literally meaning the first day after the Sabbath.
 
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BobRyan

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"one Sabbath to another" in practice means "week to week" and likewise "one new moon to another" in practice means "month to month". the meaning of the verse is not that all mankind will observe the Sabbath which would be inconsistent with the "new moon" example. It means that mankind will worship all days. .

Nope.

There is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it ... even you would like to have quoted such a text I suppose.

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.

no "news" there. (Creative writing not withstanding)
 
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Bob S

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Bob, why won't you address the following from my last post? Is66:23 is pure nonsense when trying to prove He is referring to the Heaven Jesus has in place for us. In Isaiah 66 Sabbath worship and walking among the dead bodies is the plan for those who make it to heaven In Is 65 man will live to over 100 and then die. Those that rebel in heaven will not make it to 100. This account certainly does not represent the Heaven I believe. Adventists teach that men and women will not propagate in heaven yet Isaiah tells a different story. And another thing about those two chapters that do not jive is that in chapter 65 Isaiah tells us that we won't remember the past life, but in chapter 66 we will walk among those that didn't make it alive to heaven, but their bodies made it. Yep, an absolutely poor proof text Bob.

Why is it you pick and choose from posts like you pick and choose what commands from the old covenant you try to observe?
 
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BobRyan

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DamianWarS

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Nope.

There is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it ... even you would like to have quoted such a text I suppose.

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.

no "news" there. (Creative writing not withstanding)

please refrain from using the "creative writing" claim, it is derogatory and unproductive to the conversation. This is not the first time I have informed you about this. I will be more clear, it is offensive in nature and violates CF rules as such.

These type of conclusions require a more in-depth study of the grammar in Hebrew. to start there is no other "Sabbath to Sabbath" or "Month to Month" example and your examples of "Year to Year" are not a mirror to the Is 66:23 language so we can't just broadly interpret them without investigating the grammar of the text

Ex 13:10, Ju 21:19, 1Sa 2:19 all say "from year to year" and all use the same Hebrew which is "miyamim yamimah" with the exact form. the root word is the same for both "yom" (H3117) which doesn't necessarily mean year and more often means day but it can be for a span of time like "year". So using the root word it's like saying "yom yom" (but not really at all). the first yom has a preposition "from" so it is "from-yom" the second yom doesn't have a proposition it has an affix that indicates movement as in movement toward yom. together "from-yom towards-yom"

this differs in the month to month and the sabbath to sabbath which are not repeated elsewhere in scripture

the words for new moon/sabbath for starters are isolated from the first preposition "from" so it is not "from-moon" or "from-sabbath" (as your example "from-year" was) but "from moon" and "from sabbath". Why is this important? because it isolates the noun so it stands out as a single month so rather "from new moon to new moon" it is "from one new moon to one new moon.

the second new moon/sabbath carries a preposition which is translated as "to" unlike your "year to year" example this is a proper preposition and it does not indicate simply a movement to the next as "year to year" does. it is more properly "in" and not "to". It's still singular like the first so so it is more literally "from one new moon in one new moon" or "from one sabbath in one sabbath". Some translations say "from one sabbath to another" because the "to another" carries the meaning but this is not so with your "year to year" example. (other translations say "week to week")

The "in" is confusing for English and "to" works better but "in" is important as it more uniquely is "inside the whole" rather than the polarized end. "to" can still represent this and I'll use "worship" as an example "worship from one week to another", "worship from one month to another" or "worship from one year to another". What's the meaning of these? that I only worship once a week or once a month or once a year? I think if the meaning was this way it would be an awkward way of saying it but rather the action is more naturally within those time periods not simply once during the time period but throughout.

and this is why "from year to year" does not mean "from sabbath to sabbath". The former more properly indicates "yearly" (some translations even indicate this) but the latter does not uniquely mean "weekly" (or "sabbathly" or "once a week") it means throughout the week (or sabbath) or throughout the month (or new moon).
 
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BobRyan

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please refrain from using the "creative writing" claim, it is derogatory and unproductive to the conversation. This is not the first time I have informed you about this. I will be more clear, it is offensive in nature and violates CF rules as such.

As far as I have seen - this is the first time I have seen such a greeting from you.

I am happy to read the rule that says creative writing is not allowed and/or creative writing may not be identified.

This statement I make to you is a case of creative writing on my own part because I am not quoting anything, not writing for an academic text and not engage in contributing to a journal. Should I be offended at myself according to CF forum published rules? If so I would like to be able to at least read that rule.

Should I refer to my writing as academic or journalistic instead?
 
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BobRyan

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There is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it ... even you would like to have quoted such a text I suppose.

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.

These type of conclusions require a more in-depth study of the grammar in Hebrew. to start there is no other "Sabbath to Sabbath" or "Month to Month" example

so then not even possible to wrench it into "every day" as if the Bible had ever done such a thing.

But we see cyclic time used as in "from year to year" and clearly it does not mean "every day" -- just a we find it in our modern usage of cycles of time. obviously

the point remains - not withstanding all the threats in the post you provided

And since I prefer to discuss with those who do not employ threats ...

have a nice day.
 
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DamianWarS

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As far as I have seen - this is the first time I have seen such a greeting from you.

is everyone who disagrees with you called "creative writing" why don't I call your ideas "creative writing" too. these broad platitudes are unproductive to the conversation and enter into ad hominem attacks. Let's keep our discussion by assuming the best out of each other not the worst. Calling someone's post "creative writing" is implicit a fabrication, aka a lie, this is not becoming a conversation and not something I wish to engage in. Let's take the next steps in our discourse by respecting each other.

I am happy to read the rule that says creative writing is not allowed and/or creative writing may not be identified

This statement I make to you is a case of creative writing on my own part because I am not quoting anything, not writing for an academic text and not engage in contributing to a journal. Should I be offended at myself according to CF forum published rules? If so I would like to be able to at least read that rule.

Should I refer to my writing as academic or journalistic instead?

it's about respect. calling someone's post "creative writing" is derogatory and essentially is calling them a liar. It's not the terminology that's the issue it's the last part.
 
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DamianWarS

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There is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it ... even you would like to have quoted such a text I suppose.

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.



so then not even possible to wrench it into "every day" as if the Bible had ever done such a thing.

But we see cyclic time used as in "from year to year" and clearly it does not mean "every day" -- just a we find it in our modern usage of cycles of time. obviously

the point remains - not withstanding all the threats in the post you provided

And since I prefer to discuss with those who do not employ threats ...

have a nice day.

I don't recall making threats, you're going to have be specific to show me my error. This conversation is also not being productive. I went through the grammar of Hebrew to show that the aforementioned "from year to year" is actually using different words/grammar than "from sabbath to sabbath" and cannot be interpreted the same way. I can't continue this conversation if you are not going to be serious about it and I don't know why you are ignoring these things. You are welcome to tell me why I'm wrong but I don't see the value in repeating the same things over that I have already replied to in detail without addressing the points I bring up. You are welcome to reply to the post and engage these points but I will leave that with you if you want to continue or not.
 
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BobRyan

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is everyone who disagrees with you called "creative writing" why don't I call your ideas "creative writing" too. these broad platitudes are unproductive to the conversation and enter into ad hominem attacks. Let's keep our discussion by assuming the best out of each other not the worst. Calling someone's post "creative writing" is implicit a fabrication, aka a lie, this is not becoming a conversation and not something I wish to engage in. Let's take the next steps in our discourse by respecting each other.

That is an example of a part of a post of yours I never responded to ... because I don't think I ever read that part of your post.
 
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I went through the grammar of Hebrew to show that the aforementioned "from year to year" is actually using different words/grammar than "from sabbath to sabbath" .

I am happy that the Bible translators apparently know enough about the grammar and the languages to get it right ...

God says that for all eternity in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

-- cyclic time -- from Sabbath to Sabbath (one type of cycle) AND "from new moon to new moon" two different cycles.. so then most certainly not "daily"

In fact there is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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Bob, why won't you address the following from my last post? Is66:23 is pure nonsense when trying to prove He is referring to the Heaven Jesus has in place for us. In Isaiah 66 Sabbath worship and walking among the dead bodies is the plan for those who make it to heaven In Is 65 man will live to over 100 and then die. Those that rebel in heaven will not make it to 100. This account certainly does not represent the Heaven I believe. Adventists teach that men and women will not propagate in heaven yet Isaiah tells a different story. And another thing about those two chapters that do not jive is that in chapter 65 Isaiah tells us that we won't remember the past life, but in chapter 66 we will walk among those that didn't make it alive to heaven, but their bodies made it.
Well, when it is believed that some scripture is inspired and some isn't, there's no possibility of agreement. The historical-critical method is a buffet, well-suited for the sin-loving, carnal heart. If you were using the text you would just say that verse 24 is metaphoric or perhaps a quick editorial piece, wouldn't you?
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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Way to spin the loophole thing. Loopholes are for folks who are seeking to transgress.

Transparency, is it? The word "keep" (sha.mar--H8104) is coupled with the word "commandment" (mits.vah--H4687) constantly in the Old Testament, and quite often with the word "Sabbath," and even within the second commandment itself, referring to the entire ten. Why does the fourth commandment need to use a specific word at all? Unless we're looking to find a loophole, of course. Why rest? Why obey? 'Because God said so' seems like reason enough to me. Yes, quite reasonable. For furthering this belief, I am accused of deceit and trickery. By the way, you find Christ using this same form of discourse when dealing with the established religionists of His day. They were generally shrewd enough not to expose themselves verbally.

You are, of course, at liberty to "feel" deceived all you want, but I wouldn't bother to look any further than the mirror for the perpetrator.

Christ never depicted Himself as being a replacement for the Sabbath. He said the Sabbath was made for man, with whom He cast His own very lot. He said that he would give the weary rest, and not that He would replace that rest.

I don't know what you mean by "umbrella verse" in this case, and I can assure you that no such thing exists, anyway (although I can think of at least one person who seems to think the entire Bible can be jettisoned in favor of 2 Corinthians 3:7-8), but the reason I keep the Sabbath (even in my own pitiful, human way, sometimes) and the rest of the commandments is that someone was kind enough to point out to me that there is no annulment of them prescribed in Scripture. I fully understand the "dead letter" hypothesis (a term which isn't even used anymore, given the heresy has become widely-embraced orthodoxy) and I reject it outright. Writers of the Great Awakening new nothing of antinomianism, and would have laughed it to scorn. For those who feel that the 20th century has actually brought about enlightenment on the isuues of law vs. grace, I tremble for their souls.

If the Great Apostle felt comfortable saying that "the commandment is holy and just and good," which is about as simple a statement as a person could make, I won't be found trying to twist his other, more ambiguous statements to contradict himself. Sorry. That's just how my (undeserved but) regenerate heart rolls nowadays.

Wonderful Video!
 
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BobRyan

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Bob, why won't you address the following from my last post? Is66:23 is pure nonsense ...

I am not as inclined to take a post that says "Isaiah 66:23 is pure nonsense" very seriously... will take another look at it though.
 
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