Sad News To Report

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I see it as the only reason hell is eternal is because the angels are eternal beings, even the fallen ones. As for man, they I don't know as there are scriptures for either case. I don't believe man has an eternal spirit, ever since Adam sinned and death came into being.

Dear Lady: I repeat, there is only One who is eternal, He is the Aidios One, the Author & Finisher of the all.

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
My dear Lady: Have you ever heard of the guy called Saul before his name change? He is the very one before whom the garments of the men responsible for stoning St. Stephen were laid.

The many "made sinners" = the many "made righteous"

In the scripture you are about to quote, Paul was talking of his persecution of the Church, and that Jesus enabled him anyway, even though at the time he was the chief of sinners. But Paul preached being dead to sin. Does that mean every Christian, except Paul?

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

lsume said:
When Christ came to me as a thief in the night, it was easily the most exciting day of my life. I knew immediately what was happening as He Spoke to me and my eyes were Spiritually opened for the first time. However shortly thereafter I was suspended over the lake of fire. There was absolutely nothing I could do about it but pray. I wasn’t left there long but long enough to do the job. I then knew The Fear of The Lord. It wasn’t until later that I was born again. Christ explained to me what that would be like in terms that I could understand. That experience was the single most terrifying of my life. The few others I have met that went through the experience all agree in how terrifying it was. Does that mean that all who are born again must go through the same thing? Yes as far as I know it does.

Dear Isume: The Lake of all lakes radiates with theion and theioo, rooted in none other than Theos. The overcomer is the only individual mentioned in Canon not being "hurt" by the 2nd death. Why?

They have been hurt over & over and over again; there is nothing left to hurt.

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: I repeat, there is only One who is eternal, He is the Aidios One, the Author & Finisher of the all.

I am now eternal, because God indwells my spirit, and when my body dies, it will be replaced with immortality. That means eternal. LOL

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Every Calvinist I've ever talked to.

mkgal1 said:
Then you'd asked if a Savior is even necessary and I'd answered:
1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Hello mkgal.
Adam is a great word study.........
It is used in only 7 verses of the entire NT

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

120 'adam from 119;
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
H120 אָדָם ('adam), occurs 552 times in 527 verses
121 'Adam the same as 120; Adam the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine:--Adam.
H121 אָדָם ('Adam), occurs 9 times in 9 verses

H120

Gen 1:26
And God saith, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'

Last 2 verses in the O T:

Zec 13:5
And he says 'Not a-prophet I, man/0376 'iysh tilling ground I, that adam/0120 he caused me to acquire from youth of me".

Mal 3:8
Doth man deceive God? but ye are deceiving Me, And ye have said: 'In what have we deceived Thee?' The tithe and the heave-offering!
===================================
N T

76. Adam of Hebrew origin (121); Adam,
the first man; typically (of Jesus) man (as his representative):--Adam.
G76 Ἀδάμ (Adam) occurs 9 times in 7 verses

Luke 3:38
the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Romans 5:14
but the Death did reign from Adam till Moses,
even upon those not having sinned in the likeness/omoiwmati <3667> of Adam's transgression, who is a type/tupoV <5179> of him who is coming.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For just as in the Adam all are dying/apoqnhskousin <599> (5719),
so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive.

Co 15:45
so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,

1Ti 2:13
for Adam was first formed, then Eve,
1Ti 2:14
and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came,

The last verse of the NT mentioning Adam:

Jde 1:14
And prophesy also to these did the seventh from Adam -- Enoch -- saying, 'Lo, the Lord did come in His saintly myriads,
[Enoch 1:9]
================================
A thread I have on Enoch and the 10 prophetic weeks:

The 10 weeks of Enoch, inspired or not?

LittleLambofJesus said:
Here is the quote from the epistle of Jude concerning the prophecy of Enoch:.

Jde 1:
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 “to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
=========================================
I thought I would make a thread based mainly on the 10 week prophecy mentioned in that book, but also any other verses from the Bible concerning his prophecy.

For info, this site shows those weeks, along with it's interpretation of those weeks.
Thanks to those who respond and please vote.......

Enoch. The prophecy of the 10 weeks

3. And Enoch began to recount from the books and said;
I was born the seventh in the first week,
While judgement and righteousness still endured.
4. And after me there shall arise in the second week great wickedness,
And deceit shall have sprung up;
And in it there shall be the first end. And in it a man shall be saved;
And after it is ended unrighteousness shall grow up;
And a law shall be made for the sinners.
5. And after that in the third week at it’s close
A man shall be elected as the plant of righteous Judgement.
And his posterity shall become the plant of righteousness for evermore.
6. And after that in the fourth week, at it’s close,
Visions of the holy and righteous shall be seen.
And a law for all generations and an enclosure shall be made for them.
7. And after that in the fifth week, at it’s close,
The house of glory and dominion shall be built for ever.
8. And after that in the sixth week all who live in it shall be blinded,
And the hearts of all of them shall godlessly forsake wisdom.
And in it a man shall ascend; and at it’s close the house of dominion shall be burnt with fire,
And the race of the chosen root shall be dispersed.
9. And after that in the seventh week shall an apostate generation arise,
and many shall be it’s deeds, And all it’s deed shall be apostate.
10. And at it’s close shall be elected The elect righteous of the eternal plant of righteousness,
To receive sevenfold instruction concerning all His creation.

12. And after that there shall be another, the eighth week, that of righteousness,
And a sword shall be given to it that a righteous Judgement may be executed on the oppressors,
And the sinners shall be delivered into the hands of the righteous.
13. And at it’s close they shall acquire houses through their righteousness,
And a house shall be built for the Great King in glory for evermore,
And all mankind shall look to the path of uprightness.
14. And after that in the ninth week, the righteous judgment
shall be revealed to the whole world,
And all the works of the godless shall vanish from all the earth.
And the world shall be written down for destruction.
15. And after this, in the tenth week in the seventh part,
There shall be the great eternal judgement, in which
He will execute vengeance amongst the angels.
16. And the first heaven shall depart and pass away,
and a new heaven shall appear, and all the powers of the heavens shall give sevenfold light.
17. And after that there will be many weeks without number forever.

This is the end of the Apocalypse of the ten weeks.
As you can see, like all the prophecies of God it is coming to pass exactly as it was supposed to. God is still in charge. Here we have yet another word from God that this is the time all the world has been waiting for. .......................
=============================

Best viewed full screen..........

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
In the scripture you are about to quote, Paul was talking of his persecution of the Church, and that Jesus enabled him anyway, even though at the time he was the chief of sinners. But Paul preached being dead to sin. Does that mean every Christian, except Paul?

Dear Lady: God specializes in turning sinners into saints. It does not happen in one dramatic move but in stages of standing before Him and in Him who is Fire.

"The purpose of the cross is to do away with you, blessed riddance!"

A.W. Tozer

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said: ↑
Dear Sky: Sulphur is correct. Your question to now consider=
What is sulphur in koine in relation to the Lake of all lakes?

FineLinen said:
Dear Isume: The Lake of all lakes radiates with theion and theioo, rooted in none other than Theos. The overcomer is the only individual mentioned in Canon not being "hurt" by the 2nd death. Why?

They have been hurt over & over and over again; there is nothing left to hurt.

Because we have been refined, purified and clothed in clean linen..........

Jer 9:7 Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts: “Behold, I will refine them and try them; For how shall I deal with the daughter of My people?

Dan 12:10 “Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Mal 3:2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears?For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderers’ soap. 3 - He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

Rev 19:8
and there was given to her that she may be arrayed with fine linen, pure and shining,
for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.'
Rev 19:14
And the armies in the heaven were following him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen -- white and pure;

The Lake Of Fire9

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello again dear friend.
It appears to use a form of the Greek word that is associated with God/Godlike/divine......

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

G2303 (YLT)
θεῖον, θείου, τό (apparently the neuter of the adjective θεῖος equivalent to divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off contagion (but Curtius, § 320 allies it with θύω; cf. Latinfumus, English dust)), brimstone: Luke 17:29; Revelation 9:17; Revelation 14:10; Revelation 19:20; (Revelation 20:10); Revelation 21:8. (Genesis 19:24; Psalm 10:6 (Ps. 11:6); Ezekiel 38:22;

Interesting it is used 7 times......a number which is usually considered a "divine" in the Bible

G2303 θεῖον (theion), occurs 7 times in 7 verses
2303. theion thi'-on probably neuter of 2304 (in its original sense of flashing); sulphur:--brimstone. [2304. theios thi'-os from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.][2316. theos theh'-os of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:--X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).]

Revelation 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and those sitting upon them, having breastplates of fire, and jacinth, and sulfurous<2306> and the heads of the horses are as heads of lions,
and out of their mouths proceedeth fire, and smoke, and sulfur<2303>;
=============================
Rev 20:10
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of the fire and sulfur<2303>, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

mkgal1 · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
. I don't believe man has an eternal spirit, ever since Adam sinned and death came into being.

Jesus overcame death by His death on the cross.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 10, 2019

mkgal1 said:
Jesus overcame death by His death on the cross.
.

Yes indeed!

John 19:30 When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "it has been finished!/tetelestai <5055> (5769)". And reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Revelation 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead, and behold! I AM living into the Ages of the Ages,
and I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

lsume · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Isume: The Lake of all lakes radiates with theion and theioo, rooted in none other than Theos. The overcomer is the only individual mentioned in Canon not being "hurt" by the 2nd death. Why?

They have been hurt over & over and over again; there is nothing left to hurt.

Because the send death is death and you die the first death when your born again.

lsume · Sep 10, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello CL.
Do you believe in eternal torment in hellfire for those outside of Christ?
Gehenna and Lake of Fire are 1st century Hebrew idioms that the Jews of that time would have understood. There are a few good threads on both "gehenna" and "lake of fire"..............

The Lake Of Fire

GEHENNA/HELL "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon/Slaughter" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

That doesn’t mean for eternity. Being in the lake of fire is certainly an unpleasant cleansing.

lsume · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Revelation 20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Yes but does that mean for eternity? I don’t think so.

brinny · Sep 10, 2019

lsume said:
That doesn’t mean for eternity. Being in the lake of fire is certainly an unpleasant cleansing.

Are you saying that salvation is found in the lake of fire?

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

lsume said:
Yes but does that mean for eternity? I don’t think so.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

GingerBeer · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Sad news to report

To receive Him it must be granted to you. It does not come by the will of the flesh, nor the will of man.

The Lord must open your heart (like Lydia).

No man can come to Jesus Christ “it is granted of My Father.”

The foundation for being a disciple of Jesus Christ,

You did not choose Me, I chose you.

Regarding #1, what if it is given to everyone to receive Jesus? Do you remember that verse where Jesus said "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (John 12:32) It does sound like all are drawn to Jesus not just a few.

Regarding #2, what if God opens all hearts to Jesus? John 12:32 does sound a bit like God does open all hearts to Jesus.

Regarding #3, what if the Father grants to everyone the calling and ability to come to Jesus? Do you remember that passage where Jesus spoke to Nicodemus and said, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:13-17) That serpent that Jesus mentions was a carved image of a serpent on a pole that the people were to look to if bitten by the 'fiery serpents' in the wilderness. If they looked they were healed. The invitation to look and be healed was given to all. Maybe Jesus is alluding to it because the Father invites all to look to him and be healed.

Regarding #4, what if Jesus chose everyone. There are numerous passages that suggest such. Here are a few:

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:4
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.1 Timothy 1:15
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

So the 4 points you raised are sad news only for those who construe them to be sad and exclusive and condemning of the majority of humanity. For those who do not take such a negative perspective on God's grace and human ability it is not sad news at all.

brinny · Sep 10, 2019

GingerBeer said:
Regarding #1, what is it is given to everyone to receive Jesus? Do you remember that verse where Jesus said "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (John 12:32) It does sound like all are drawn to Jesus not just a few.

Regarding #2, what if God opens all hearts to Jesus? John 12:32 does sound a bit like God does open all hearts to Jesus.

Regarding #3, what if the Father grants to everyone the calling and ability to come to Jesus? Do you remember that passage where Jesus spoke to Nicodemus and said, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:13-17) That serpent that Jesus mentions was a carved image of a serpent on a pole that the people were to look to if bitten by the 'fiery serpents' in the wilderness. If they looked they were healed. The invitation to look and be healed was given to all. Maybe Jesus is alluding to it because the Father invites all to look to him and be healed.

Regarding #4, what if Jesus chose everyone. There are numerous passages that suggest such. Here are a few:

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:4

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.1 Timothy 1:15

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

So the 4 points you raised are sad news only for those who construe them to be sad and exclusive and condemning of the majority of humanity. For those who do not take such a negative perspective on God's grace and human ability it is not sad news at all.

What you posted sounds like "Universalism".

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Why Can't Aionas Ton Aionon Mean Eternity?

renniks · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Joshua: The reconcialiation of the ta panta has zero to do with our willingness as broken lost sinners. It is rooted firmly in Him from whom and in whom the all is consummated.

I have often said the only difference between Calvinists and universalists is what they believe about the scope of the atonement. Anyway, the verse you quoted only says that salvation doesn't happen because of man's will, but that we do have to receive him before he does the work of salvation.

GingerBeer · Sep 10, 2019

brinny said:
What you posted sounds like "Universalism".

Does it? Why?

brinny · Sep 10, 2019

GingerBeer said:
Does it? Why?

It's in conflict with John 3:16.

In addition, not everyone will be saved (or want to) by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is clear when He says that He will say to some "Depart from me. I never knew you."

In Revelation it is described where the unrepentant will be, where there will be gnashing of teeth, etc.

Any repentant heart is saved...any who call on His name.

The unrepentant are not.

Sad News To Report

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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