The Difference between Daniel`s 70th Week and the Tribulation.

Douggg said:

Antichrist is a title which simply8 means another/against Christ (Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel )

Do you think that in Judaism, that the messiah has to be a Jew?

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Yep! And when the Antichrist declares Himself Messiah and God - that is in the midst of teh 70th week, He declares genocide against Israel.

Once again He is Satans son from a probable Italian woman! So he is no Jew in any imagination.

Douggg said:

When the person commits the ToD act, Satan will be possessing him. The person will be brought back to life in Isaiah 14:18-20.

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Isaiah 14:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

This is not a resurrection, but an ignominious burial for a person of royalty. IN the olden days all rulers were buried with their father or just like their fathers were- this passage is simply saying he will not be buried as royalty.

Marilyn C said:

Hi nolidad,

There is no indication that the Prince will be a Roman. That empire with its rule and government has been judged by God, as is NO more.

The 4th beastly Federation of Dan. 7 treads down the other powers. (Dan. 7: 7) So how could Rome tread down Babylon and the Medes and Persians when those governments had been judged and were no more.

The first three beastly Federations are given an extension of life. (Dan. 7: 12) So how can Babylon, the Medes and Persians and the Grecian Empire, be given an extension of life when God had judged them and they were finished.

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Well the answer is too lengthy for a site like this.

But you forget teh times of teh gentiles has been unbroken from Babylon till now! The fourth beast was not th eRoman Empire for it was different from the 1st three beasts!

What did Rome do that was different? Th efirst three ruled the conquered lands from their own throne. Rome started new form of rule called IMperialsim. This form of Government has survived when it first started in Rome. America is an imperialistic nation and we are the current seat of the western leg that started with Rome. The eastern leg was Constantinople and then Russia and it has stayed the same since. All the govts. in the time of the gentiles since Rome have been Imperialistic in their rule of foreign lands.

The fourth beast rules the whole world! Rome did not- it did not even rule the known world. It did not even rule as far as Alexander the great conquered! It breaks into ten heads and then an 11th horn rises and conquers three of those 10 heads! So show me from History when Rome did all this???

nolidad said:

Judaism in Jesus day was conferred by the Father not the Mother. If by the mother then Jesus could not be a King for Ruth is in His lineage and she was a Moabitess.

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You are talking about a different issue - how Jesus was descended from David.

Different to whether Jesus was a Jew or not. Jesus was a Jew by Mary being a Jew.

Jesus was a prince, and in line to be the King of Israel, since his Father was God, the King of Israel. If you go back to 1Samuel12:12.

1Sameul12:12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

nolidad said:

there was a prince in tyre and that lament was against the prince at the time it was prophesied.

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When did some actual prince of Tyre sit in the seat of God ?

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

I think you need to go Daniel 8, about the little horn person.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

nolidad said:

Satan cannot possess his osn. Satan is not omnipresent and the false prophet works miracles in the presence of the dragon (Satan) The son will have miraculous powers just as the hybrids in Genesis 6 had- half angel/half human.

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Satan in not omnipresent. But Satan entered Judas was therefore called the son of perdition, to carry out the act of betraying Jesus.

The person in 2Thessalonians2:4 is also call the son of perdition, as he will betray the Jews, Israel and transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant which he will have a few years confirmed.

You are getting a little mixed up on the false prophet. His power comes from Satan, but he works the miracles in the presence of the first beast.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

nolidad said:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Is this talking about a man?

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What has that got to do with Isaiah 14:16?

nolidad said:

The goat is Alexander the great and the four notable ones are the four generals who took over the kingdom when Alexander died. Antiochus is a descendant of Seleucus and came from the west and captured much of trhe middle east including the pleasant land (Israel) His transgression of desolation (sacrificng a pig) was teh final straw that brought about the wars of the Maccabees.

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It is not referring to Antiochus in Daniel 8. The vision is for time of the end.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

nolidad said:

Yep! And when the Antichrist declares Himself Messiah and God - that is in the midst of teh 70th week, He declares genocide against Israel.

Once again He is Satans son from a probable Italian woman! So he is no Jew in any imagination.

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An Italian woman? Even so, there are no Italian Jews? The person has to be a Jew.

You say genocide against Israel - yet you do not connect the person with Isaiah 14:20

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

nolidad said:

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

This is not a resurrection, but an ignominious burial for a person of royalty. IN the olden days all rulers were buried with their father or just like their fathers were- this passage is simply saying he will not be buried as royalty.

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He is not going to be buried at all. He will only be dead a couple of days, not buried. It will be during the body reviewing stage, that he will come back to life. That's the big miracle, everyone is going to witness it.

The world will see him killed and then come back to life.

Marilyn C said:

I have shown you that Peter did not know of the Body of Christ. And now you bring up more proof.

`You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.` (Acts 10: 28)

God revealed to Peter in a vision `that God shows no partiality, but in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. The word sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ - He is Lord of all......and we are witnesses of all things which He did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed.....and He commanded us to preach to the people, and testify that it is He who was ordained to be judge of the living and the dead. (Acts 10: 34 - 42)

Peter & the other 11 apostles were to witness of Christ as Lord and Messiah to ALL. However they were not told that out of the Jews and the Gentiles the Lord would build another group, the Body of Christ, thus making three groups He had purposes for.

We are told in God`s word that eventually the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus speaking to Peter -

`Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of ISRAEL.` (Matt. 19: 28)

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Are you trying to say Cornelius was not a part of the Body of Christ after he was indwelled with the Spirit, as described by Peter in Acts of the Apostles 11:15-16?


Either you are confused, or Matthew is confused, in the passage below.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

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Marilyn C said:

Then a surprising thing happened that astonished Peter and those of the circumcision. The Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and his household. (Acts 10: 44 - 46) Thus we know that the Holy Spirit placed them in the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 13)

However it was not till the Holy Spirit revealed this truth of the Body of Christ to the Apostle Paul that people had more understanding of God`s further purposes.

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Your post above contains a contradiction.

You claim that Peter did not understand the Body of Christ, even though he was witness to the Gentiles becoming a part of the New Covenant, falls apart below. A person enters the New Covenant Body of Christ through the baptism of the Spirit of God. Peter clearly understood this fact below.


Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


Then you repeat the Mid Acts Dispensationalism claim that the Body of Christ was first understood by Paul.
How many sermons have you heard from Dispensationalists about the New Covenant? Why not? It is because an understanding of the New Covenant kills your doctrine.


The New Covenant scriptures below reveal the complete error of all forms of modern Dispensational Theology.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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Douggg said:

You are talking about a different issue - how Jesus was descended from David.

Different to whether Jesus was a Jew or not. Jesus was a Jew by Mary being a Jew.

Jesus was a prince, and in line to be the King of Israel, since his Father was God, the King of Israel. If you go back to 1Samuel12:12.

1Sameul12:12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

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Jewishness was conferred by teh Father not the mother. Matriarchial Jewishness is a fairly new concept.

It was from teh seed. That is why geneaologies are almost always men.

Douggg said:

What has that got to do with Isaiah 14:16?

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Because vse 16 says man- you decided it was the antichrist and not Satan. I merely pointed out that Paul called Jesus a man!

Douggg said:

It is not referring to Antiochus in Daniel 8. The vision is for time of the end.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

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You are free to think that, but you will not be biblical.

The 2300 days after the transgression runs that into the millenial kingdom! That is utter nonsense- even with your hard worked but erroneous chart.

2300 days is 6.38 Jewish years.
So you need the trangression of desolation occuring in the first 3/4 of a year into the 70th week or no more than 135 days after that! you do not even declare what it is!

Too bad you stopped short in chapter 8, then you would not have been mistaken!

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

This is simply following the times of the Gentiles- the breakup of Greece to four kings (Lysemechus,Antigonus, Ptolemy, and Seleucus which antiochus came from)

Antiochus fit the description of HIm in chptr 8! And he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease and lo and behold, the Maccabees rebellion ousted the Greeks and it took 2300 days to cleanse the temple from start to finish!

Douggg said:

An Italian woman? Even so, there are no Italian Jews? The person has to be a Jew.

You say genocide against Israel - yet you do not connect the person with Isaiah 14:20

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

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This is what happens when a text is teken out of context-it becomes a pretext.

This king is Lucifer and if we need geography the context demands Babylon.

Having to be a Jew is a concept made by many who allegorize things and pull verses out of context.

Why would a Jew make a treaty of peace with Israel?: That is not done! A foreign ruler will make a treaty, but Netenyahu does not sign a covenant with Israel nor did any other Jewish Ruler (except Jesus)

If we are to let Scripture speak for itself- the antichrist is to be a) Satans physical son b) from a woman of the Roman EMpire of some time (Daniels , Jesus', or the end days) He does not even claim Jewish Messiahship until He breaks the covenant with Israel at teh mid point of the 70th week and Israel does not even accept HIm as such! they have to flee for their lives when the antichrist assumes title of Messiah!

Douggg said:

He is not going to be buried at all. He will only be dead a couple of days, not buried. It will be during the body reviewing stage, that he will come back to life. That's the big miracle, everyone is going to witness it.

The world will see him killed and then come back to life.

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YOu do not even know middle east burial events. People are buried immediately! He may not have dirt thrown on Him (He will be in babylon at this point most likely though that is not definite). It will be like Lazarus!