Sad News To Report

lsume · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
They believe not everyone is chosen; so unless God chooses you, you are doomed to go to hell from birth.

I don’t think that’s the case. Please find anywhere in God’s Word where man goes to hell.

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: Radical Calvin is a ghasty dogma! At least give me a chance to prove what a great sinner I am and touch me with Your great love & grace of transformation.

So you are a great sinner and not a child of God? You can't be both.

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

lsume said:
I don’t think that’s the case. Please find anywhere in God’s Word where man goes to hell.

Revelation 20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Yarddog · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
They believe not everyone is chosen; so unless God chooses you, you are doomed to go to hell from birth.

Says who???

StillGods · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Come in New Zealand: My friend in that beautiful habitation on planet earth: perhaps where you dwell many choose one or both of the deaths in Scripture. Generally none of us choose death unless wracked with unspeakable pain in one dimension or another.

The calling of the Lord certainly involves the outflow of His life to those we touch. To call it a job seems to me to be short in stature of His abundant life.

Life cascading into rivers of living water

many choose not to count the cost of following Christ and turn away as spoken of in scripture. it is the same today, the choice to deny oneself, take up the cross and follow Jesus is given, but many do not want their lives confronted by that cost and choose to not do that.

Choosing Christ comes at a cost many are not willing to make.

Being given a job by the Lord is a gift especially if this world has no use for you. it is not used in a derogatory way at all. a job speaks of being useful to Him - a wonderful humbling thing.

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

Yarddog said:
Says who???

Every Calvinist I've ever talked to.

BCsenior · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
You did not choose Me, I chose you.

Years ago, the Pastor of the pastors in San Diego said this is in regards to ministry!
He must have been heavy-duty against Armenianism.

Yarddog · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Every Calvinist I've ever talked to.

Who listens to Calvinist?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said: ↑
They believe not everyone is chosen; so unless God chooses you, you are doomed to go to hell from birth.

lsume said:
I don’t think that’s the case. Please find anywhere in God’s Word where man goes to hell.

CharismaticLady said:
Revelation 20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Hello CL.
Do you believe in eternal torment in hellfire for those outside of Christ?
Gehenna and Lake of Fire are 1st century Hebrew idioms that the Jews of that time would have understood. There are a few good threads on both "gehenna" and "lake of fire"..............

The Lake Of Fire

FineLinen said:
The Lake Of Fire
1. We will consider all passages of Scripture speaking of the Lake.
2. What is the Lake of Fire?
3. What is not the Lake of Fire.
4. What is the defining ingredient of the Lake.
5. Compare our God the Consuming Fire & the Lake of Fire.

GEHENNA/HELL "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon/Slaughter" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

LittleLambofJesus said:
Our Lord mentions the phrase "gehenna" in Matt 23 and one that I had never really looked closely at until just recently, which is referenced in the Hebrew OT.
[The Jerusalem/Temple Olivet Discourse immediately follows after this chapter.]
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

G1067 (YLT)
G1067 γέεννα (geenna), occurs 12 times in 12 verses

Matthew 23:
15 'Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That ye are going about the sea and the dry to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming,ye are making him a son of gehenna twofold more of yourselves.
33 "Serpents! brood of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna/
===============================
Below I put up some links as well as a few maps concerning Gehenna/Valley of Hinnon

Hinnom, Valley Of Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

The meaning of "Hinnom" is unknown; the expressions ben Hinnom and bene Hinnom would suggest that it is a proper name; in Jeremiah 7:32; 19:6 it is altered by the prophet to "valley of slaughter," and therefore some have thought the original name must have had a pleasing meaning.

The Valley of Hinnom has been located by different writers in each of the three great valleys of Jerusalem. In favor of the eastern or Kidron valley we have the facts that Eusebius and Jerome (Onom) place "Gehennom" under the eastern wall of Jerusalem and the Moslem geographical writers, Muqaddasi and Nasir-i-khusran, call the Kidron valley Wady Jahamum. The Jewish writer Kimchi also identifies the Valley of Jehoshaphat (i.e. the Kidron) with Hinnom. These ideas are probably due to the identification of the eastern valley, on account of its propinquity to the Temple, as the scene of the last judgment--the "Valley of Jehoshaphat" of Joel 3:2--and the consequent transference there of the scene of the punishment of the wicked, Gehenna, after the ancient geographical position of the Valley of Hinnom, had long been lost. In selecting sacred sites, from the 4th Christian century onward, no critical topographical acumen has been displayed until quite modern times. There are three amply sufficient arguments against this view:

(1) the Kidron valley is always called a nachal and not a gay' (see KIDRON); (2) the "Gate of the Gai" clearly did not lie to the East of the city; (3) En-rogel, which lay at the beginning of the Valley of Hinnom and to its East (Joshua 15:8; 18:16) cannot be the "Virgin's fount," the ancient Gihon (2 Samuel 17:17).

Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Hinnom, Valley Of
HINNOM, VALLEY OF

hin'-om (ge hinnom, Joshua 15:8; 18:16; "valley of the son of Hinnom" (ge bhen hinnom), Joshua 15:8; 18:16; 2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31; 19:2,6; 32:35; "valley of the children (sons) of Hinnom" (ge bhene hinnom), 2 Kings 23:10; or simply "the valley," literally, the "hollow" or "ravine" (ha-gay'), 2 Chronicles 26:9; Nehemiah 2:13,15; 3:13; Jeremiah 31:40 and, perhaps also, Jeremiah 2:23 (the above references are in the Hebrew text; there are some variations in the Septuagint)):

The meaning of "Hinnom" is unknown; the expressions ben Hinnom and bene Hinnom would suggest that it is a proper name; in Jeremiah 7:32; 19:6 it is altered by the prophet to "valley of slaughter," and therefore some have thought the original name must have had a pleasing meaning.

The exact location of the Valley of Hinnom is disputed. Older commentaries give the location as below the southern wall of ancient Jerusalem, stretching from the foot of Mount Zion eastward past the Tyropoeon to the Kidron Valley. However the Tyropoeon Valley is usually no longer associated with the Valley of Hinnom because during the period of Ahaz and Manasseh, the Tyropoeon lay within the city walls and child sacrifice would have been practiced outside the walls of the city. Smith (1907),[7] Dalman (1930),[8] Bailey (1986)[9] and Watson (1992)[10] identify the Wadi ar-Rababi, which fits the description of Joshua that Hinnom valley ran east to west and lay outside the city walls. According to Joshua, the valley began at En-rogel. If the modern Bir Ayyub is En-rogel, then Wadi ar-Rababi, which begins there, is Hinnom.[11]
=====================
Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley

Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley marked the western and southern edges of Jerusalem, beginning along the Western Hill and ending where the Tyropean and Kidron Valleys meet. In the Old Testament, it was often the site where people of Judah sacrificed their children to Baal (2 Kings 23:20; 2 Chron. 28:3,4; Jer. 7:31; 19:5, 6; 32:35).

By Jesus' time, the Greek translation of Hinnom Valley, gehenna, became a synonym for hell. Thus the English versions of the Bible translate "Valley of Hinnom" in the New Testament as "hell." With its pagan history and its burning sewer stench, Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley serves as a vivid metaphor for both the Christian and Jewish concept of hell

King Manasseh of Judah added to the negative reputation of the Hinnom Valley by sacrificing some of his own sons in Baal worship there (2 Chron. 33:6). He also practiced sorcery and witchcraft in defiance of God's law. King Josiah, Manasseh's grandson, later destroyed many of these pagan structures and practices. But by that time, Israel was so involved in paganism that God's judgment soon fell upon the people.

Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley also became the perpetual burning-garbage dump and city sewer. Residents sometimes called it the "valley of the sewer" or "the valley of the pagans."
============================
View attachment 260794

View attachment 260790

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

Yarddog said:
Who listens to Calvinist?

Other Calvinists! LOL

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello CL.
Do you believe in eternal torment in hellfire for those outside of Christ?
Gehenna and Lake of Fire are 1st century Hebrew idioms that the Jews of that time would have understood. There are a few good threads on both "gehenna" and "lake of fire"..............

The Lake Of Fire

GEHENNA/HELL "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon/Slaughter" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

There are many scripture to support either side: eternal suffering alive in hell. Or destruction immediately in an eternal hell for Satan and his angels. I'm not going there, so it doesn't matter what I believe between these two. One of these is the actual truth, but God only knows as far as I can see.

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
There are many scripture to support either side: eternal suffering alive in hell. Or destruction immediately in an eternal hell for Satan and his angels. I'm not going there, so it doesn't matter what I believe between these two. One of these is the actual truth, but God only knows as far as I can see.

Dear Lady: Neither one of these ghasty dogmas is supported by Scripture or more importantly the Father of all fathers!

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: Neither one of these ghasty dogmas is supported by Scripture or more importantly the Father of all fathers!

As long as you don't go there, I don't care if you believe in hell or not. Just don't teach that it doesn't exist.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 10, 2019

Yarddog said:
Who listens to Calvinist?

CharismaticLady said:
Every Calvinist I've ever talked to.

Anyone here remember this great birthday bash thrown for Calvin's 500th birthday?

PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter said: ↑
i'm having a t.u.l.i.p. cake.

go cards

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Best post yet and reps for it!!!
I have a song to go along with it

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
The Pope wishing Calvin a Happy Birthday

WarriorAngel said: ↑
JOKES:

How many Calvinists does it take to change a lightbulb?
- Well, is the lightbulb meant to be changed? Maybe this lightbulb was never intended to change. Maybe this light bulb is meant to stay dark.

How do you confuse a Calvinist?
- Offer them three cakes and say it's up to them which one they eat.

What do you call a Calvinist ex-prisoner?
- A Reformed character.

And a final teaser.... how hard would a qualification in Theology be for a Calvinist if all the questions were multiple-choice? What would the instructions say - "Only put a tick against the answer you are intended to think it is..."

Ok, I cracked up.

mkgal1 · Sep 10, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Without Christ, we'd all be in hell. With Christ, the opposite applies. So..er..yes.

brinny said:
Your posts appear to be saying that Jesus Christ was not necessary, because whether anyone repented or not, not accepting Christ as their Savior, they will be "saved".

Then you'd asked if a Savior is even necessary and I'd answered:

mkgal1 said:
Absolutely! Only God incarnate could have defeated death and sin. Without Christ, we were all dead - but, only because of Him, have we been made "alive". Jesus needed to become flesh in order to redeem the flesh of humanity.

brinny said:
Thank you. I was asking specifically because it seemed that He had been minimized or rendered not necessary in some posts.

I was asking for clarity.

Thank you, and i agree sister.

God bless you.

As SM posted, without Christ we'd ALL still be dead in our sin. We owe our freedom/our lives to Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

mkgal1 · Sep 10, 2019

Quoting from the 1980 Orthodox Conference:
From article linked below:

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. - The River of Fire - Kalomiros - Glory to God for All Things

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
As long as you don't go there, I don't care if you believe in hell or not. Just don't teach that it doesn't exist.

Dear Lady: Hell exists (all 4 of them), death exists & sin exists. None of them are eternal, only the Aidios One is eternal & He swallows every last dark corner with His Life.

Everything in subjection before His Feet

CharismaticLady · Sep 10, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: Hell exists (all 4 of them), death exists & sin exists. None of them are eternal, only the Aidios One is eternal & He swallows every last dark corner with His Life.

Everything in subjection before His Feet

I see it as the only reason hell is eternal is because the angels are eternal beings, even the fallen ones. As for man, they I don't know as there are scriptures for either case. I don't believe man has an eternal spirit, ever since Adam sinned and death came into being.

FineLinen · Sep 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
So you are a great sinner and not a child of God? You can't be both.

My dear Lady: Have you ever heard of the guy called Saul before his name change? He is the very one before whom the garments of the men responsible for stoning St. Stephen were laid.

The many "made sinners" = the many "made righteous"

lsume · Sep 10, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello CL.
Do you believe in eternal torment in hellfire for those outside of Christ?
Gehenna and Lake of Fire are 1st century Hebrew idioms that the Jews of that time would have understood. There are a few good threads on both "gehenna" and "lake of fire"..............

The Lake Of Fire

GEHENNA/HELL "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon/Slaughter" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me
that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

When Christ came to me as a thief in the night, it was easily the most exciting day of my life. I knew immediately what was happening as He Spoke to me and my eyes were Spiritually opened for the first time. However shortly thereafter I was suspended over the lake of fire. There was absolutely nothing I could do about it but pray. I wasn’t left there long but long enough to do the job. I then knew The Fear of The Lord. It wasn’t until later that I was born again. Christ explained to me what that would be like in terms that I could understand. That experience was the single most terrifying of my life. The few others I have met that went through the experience all agree in how terrifying it was. Does that mean that all who are born again must go through the same thing? Yes as far as I know it does.

Sad News To Report

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Contributor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Senior Contributor

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Similar threads