Whispering of the "Still Small Voice"

bèlla · Sep 9, 2019

Francis Drake said:
.You can see from my post No39 the error of basing everything on scripture.

I operate in the gift of discerning of spirits and thankfully the wrong ones are apt to choose speech over manifestations. Though I’ve had my share of those.

And given the propensity of believers who believe they’ve heard fro God when the one speaking is them or the evil one; there is no harm in directing people to the word.

So we’ll have to disagree on this one. I deal with this every day. I’d rather be certain than mislead anyone.

swordsman1 · Sep 9, 2019

Francis Drake said:
I have nearly 60 years of hearing God speak to me, mostly the inner "still small voice" and occasionally, loud enough to wake me up from sleep!

I have countless examples in all areas of life, and even one time when that voice saved my life from being killed in a car crash ahead.

But here's one instance so long ago that I completely forgot about till the other day.

Back in the 80s, someone stole my wife's car from outside the house.
I was indignant and asked the Lord to get it back for us, or show us where it was.

A day or two later, I was collecting some stuff from a builders Merchant for my business, and at the counter, I sensed that still small voice within me.

Did you get that, I heard THE STILL SMALL VOICE DEEP WITHIN ME!
Yup, I sure did!
I heard the Lord tell me to go quickly along a certain street and I would find my wife's car.

I gathered my stuff and dumped it in my car, and them proceeded to that street. I travelled slowly along it looking at every parked car, and then as I approached a row of shops, there it was parked on the forecourt.

I got out to check, and for a moment wasn't sure what to do, this was the day long before mobile phones and I wasn't ready to directly confront any violent car jackers.
But I suddenly remembered that there was a police station at the end of the street, so I rocketed down the street, jumped out and ran in yelling at the desk sergeant.

Thankfully he reacted like greased lightning and within moments a car was following me down the street at speed.

The officers entered the shop where the car was parked, and moments later came out with two car thieves in handcuffs.

We collected the car later in the day. The police were very pleased as they found loads of stolen property and bank cards in the car.

All that resulted from the still small voice that never happens according to some cynics!
I've got loads more examples where that came from, but can anyone tell me where I would get directions like that from my bible please?

I didn't ask for unsubstantiated stories. I asked for biblical proof that God gives us instructions via our thoughts or feelings. (I've supplied 3 scriptures that say otherwise). Am I expected to believe this notion simply from a story by an internet stranger? Prove it by scripture and I might be convinced.

Francis Drake said:
I heard the Lord tell me to go quickly along a certain street and I would find my wife's car.

You heard God speak to you? In an audible voice? Or was it a thought or a feeling, in other words a hunch. People have hunches all the time - some are right, some are wrong. Just because you had correct hunch doesn't mean God telepathically spoke to you.

Carl Emerson · Sep 9, 2019

swordsman1 said:
None of those examples are instances of God speaking to people.

Where in scripture does it say God gives instructions to his people via their thoughts and feelings? It certainly isn't in the 'still small voice' passage.

Scripture says:
"My thoughts are not your thoughts" (Isa 55:8)

"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool" (Prov.28:26)

"The heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer 17:9)

The idea that our thoughts and feelings is God somehow telepathically speaking to us is a highly dangerous and unbiblical teaching.

Isaiah 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.

1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie...

John 16:13 when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Being deaf to the Holy Spirit is a serious condition.

Carl Emerson · Sep 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
The Christian does not look inward, but outward. The still small voice which Elijah experienced, that was still outward. It wasn't something inside of himself, it was the objective and external act of God.

External to internal is fundmaental to the New Covenant...

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

Abiding with before the resurrection and in after the resurrection.

ViaCrucis · Sep 9, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
External to internal is fundmaental to the New Covenant...

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

Abiding with before the resurrection and in after the resurrection.

And yet I don't look inside myself to meet God. I look to the Scriptures, I look to the Sacraments. I look to where God's word can be found. And that's not me, I'm a bumbling buffoon and sinner.

-CryptoLutheran

Carl Emerson · Sep 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
And yet I don't look inside myself to meet God. I look to the Scriptures, I look to the Sacraments. I look to where God's word can be found. And that's not me, I'm a bumbling buffoon and sinner.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, but his is the miracle of re-birth - He comes to take up residence within us. God's Word within us !!!

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Isaiah 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

That verse doesn't say God speaks to us by thoughts or feelings. There is no mention of such a thing. It says your "ears will hear", not your "mind will perceive". You are making 5 huge unwarranted assumptions in order to make the verse say what you want it to say...

You are presuming "your ears will hear" is a metaphor, rather than literal hearing eg hearing the word preached.
You are presuming the metaphor (if it is one) is God instructing people via their inner thoughts and feelings. If it is a metaphor it could be a multitude of other things: reading God's word, God's word in your memory, your conscience, etc.
You are presuming the prophecy applies to every believer. Yet it is addressed to "People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, ..." (Isa 30:19).
You are presuming the prophecy is fulfilled in this age. Yet v20 is says "Your eyes will behold your teacher". So that could be when Christ appears in either his 1st or 2nd coming.
You are presuming that the teacher speaking is the Lord. Yet many bible versions translate the word as 'teachers' (plural), which can only be human teachers, not God. eg NIV "Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”

As well as the NIV, many other versions translate it as "teachers" - NIV, NKJV, KJV, ISV, NET, KJ21, ASV, BRG, DARBY, ISV, LEB, NASB, TLV, WEB, YLT

With all those exegetical problems Isa 30:20 is far from being a proof text that God speaks via thoughts and feelings. Let's look at your next verse...

Carl Emerson said:
John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.

Again you are making the huge unwarranted assumption that "My sheep hear my voice" is believers hearing God speak through their thoughts and feelings. There is nothing to indicate that is what Jesus meant. Jesus is certainly speaking metaphorically here (he is not referring to literal sheep hearing a literal voice), he is referring to believers hearing his words - that I agree. But nowhere in scripture is the Lord's "voice" a metaphor for thoughts and feeling. It is however a frequently used as a metaphor for scripture...

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:11 "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice;"
1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 11:3-4 "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant which I commanded your forefathers ..., saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

So the obvious interpretation of John 10:27 that we will hear Jesus's words through scripture (not via thoughts and feelings).

Carl Emerson said:
1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie...

Don't take that verse out of context. The "anointing" that "abides in you" is not referring to thoughts and feelings - there is absolutely no indication of that. Rather it is referring to the same thing that "abides in you" two verses earlier: "If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, " v24. ie God's word.

This is confirmed by the end of the passage you quoted (but which you omitted):

v26 but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

It cannot refer to God personally speaking as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun is he was referring personally to God or his Spirit.

Carl Emerson said:
John 16:13 when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Again you are taking that verse out of context. The "you" that Jesus refers to in this passage is not every believer, but solely the apostles whom he is addressing. It is part of the same discourse where Jesus instructs the disciples about the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost....

v7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you....".

The "you" here is clearly the 11 disciples. Now look at the verse immediately before the one you quoted (still part of the same discourse),

v12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

It is still clearly addressed to the disciples personally. Then we have your verse, but there is no change of context between v12 and v13. It is the same "you":

v13 "He will guide you [the apostles] into all the truth".

And that is what happened. As spokemen for Christ, the truth was revealed to them by the inspiration of the Spirit.

Carl Emerson said:
Being deaf to the Holy Spirit is a serious condition.

Being deaf to scripture is a serious condition.

Francis Drake · Sep 10, 2019

swordsman1 said:
I didn't ask for unsubstantiated stories. I asked for biblical proof that God gives us instructions via our thoughts or feelings. (I've supplied 3 scriptures that say otherwise). Am I expected to believe this notion simply from a story by an internet stranger? Prove it by scripture and I might be convinced.

The whole of the scriptures are full end to end of God speaking to people, and them hearing his voice. How on earth do you think they wrote the scriptures?

If you can't see God speaking to people in the scriptures, then you have a serious problem with unbelief.

You heard God speak to you? In an audible voice? Or was it a thought or a feeling, in other words a hunch. People have hunches all the time - some are right, some are wrong. Just because you had correct hunch doesn't mean God telepathically spoke to you.

Sometimes it comes deep within, as if bypassing the ear drum and straight to the nerve.
Occasionally it comes audibly via the ear, including loud enough to wake me from sleep.
Its hard to tell sometimes.

Tell me though, how do you think Satan speaks to people when he deceives them?

Carl Emerson · Sep 10, 2019

swordsman1 said:
That verse doesn't say God speaks to us by thoughts or feelings. There is no mention of such a thing. It says your "ears will hear", not your "mind will perceive". You are making 5 huge unwarranted assumptions in order to make the verse say what you want it to say...

You are presuming "your ears will hear" is a metaphor, rather than literal hearing eg hearing the word preached.

You are presuming the metaphor (if it is one) is God instructing people via their inner thoughts and feelings. If it is a metaphor it could be a multitude of other things: reading God's word, God's word in your memory, your conscience, etc.

You are presuming the prophecy applies to every believer. Yet it is addressed to "People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, ..." (Isa 30:19).

You are presuming the prophecy is fulfilled in this age. Yet v20 is says "Your eyes will behold your teacher". So that could be when Christ appears in either his 1st or 2nd coming.

You are presuming that the teacher speaking is the Lord. Yet many bible versions translate the word as 'teachers' (plural), which can only be human teachers, not God. eg NIV "Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”

As well as the NIV, many other versions translate it as "teachers" - NIV, NKJV, KJV, ISV, NET, KJ21, ASV, BRG, DARBY, ISV, LEB, NASB, TLV, WEB, YLT

With all those exegetical problems Isa 30:20 is far from being a proof text that God speaks via thoughts and feelings. Let's look at your next verse...

Again you are making the huge unwarranted assumption that "My sheep hear my voice" is believers hearing God speak through their thoughts and feelings. There is nothing to indicate that is what Jesus meant. Jesus is certainly speaking metaphorically here (he is not referring to literal sheep hearing a literal voice), he is referring to believers hearing his words - that I agree. But nowhere in scripture is the Lord's "voice" a metaphor for thoughts and feeling. It is however a frequently used as a metaphor for scripture...

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:11 "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice;"
1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 11:3-4 "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant which I commanded your forefathers ..., saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

So the obvious interpretation of John 10:27 that we will hear Jesus's words through scripture (not via thoughts and feelings).

Don't take that verse out of context. The "anointing" that "abides in you" is not referring to thoughts and feelings - there is absolutely no indication of that. Rather it is referring to the same thing that "abides in you" two verses earlier: "If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, " v24. ie God's word.

This is confirmed by the end of the passage you quoted (but which you omitted):

v26 but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

It cannot refer to God personally speaking as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun is he was referring personally to God or his Spirit.

Again you are taking that verse out of context. The "you" that Jesus refers to in this passage is not every believer, but solely the apostles whom he is addressing. It is part of the same discourse where Jesus instructs the disciples about the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost....

v7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you....".

The "you" here is clearly the 11 disciples. Now look at the verse immediately before the one you quoted (still part of the same discourse),

v12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

It is still clearly addressed to the disciples personally. Then we have your verse, but there is no change of context between v12 and v13. It is the same "you":

v13 "He will guide you [the apostles] into all the truth".

And that is what happened. As spokemen for Christ, the truth was revealed to them by the inspiration of the Spirit.

Being deaf to scripture is a serious condition.

Well presented arguments - like what Jesus had to contend with.

Have a read of part of my testimony here... Jesus's Ministry

He was told not to heal on the Sabbath and that He had a demon.

It is all very familiar.

Carl Emerson · Sep 10, 2019

swordsman1 said:
That verse doesn't say God speaks to us by thoughts or feelings. There is no mention of such a thing. It says your "ears will hear", not your "mind will perceive". You are making 5 huge unwarranted assumptions in order to make the verse say what you want it to say...

You are presuming "your ears will hear" is a metaphor, rather than literal hearing eg hearing the word preached.

You are presuming the metaphor (if it is one) is God instructing people via their inner thoughts and feelings. If it is a metaphor it could be a multitude of other things: reading God's word, God's word in your memory, your conscience, etc.

You are presuming the prophecy applies to every believer. Yet it is addressed to "People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, ..." (Isa 30:19).

You are presuming the prophecy is fulfilled in this age. Yet v20 is says "Your eyes will behold your teacher". So that could be when Christ appears in either his 1st or 2nd coming.

You are presuming that the teacher speaking is the Lord. Yet many bible versions translate the word as 'teachers' (plural), which can only be human teachers, not God. eg NIV "Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”

As well as the NIV, many other versions translate it as "teachers" - NIV, NKJV, KJV, ISV, NET, KJ21, ASV, BRG, DARBY, ISV, LEB, NASB, TLV, WEB, YLT

With all those exegetical problems Isa 30:20 is far from being a proof text that God speaks via thoughts and feelings. Let's look at your next verse...

Again you are making the huge unwarranted assumption that "My sheep hear my voice" is believers hearing God speak through their thoughts and feelings. There is nothing to indicate that is what Jesus meant. Jesus is certainly speaking metaphorically here (he is not referring to literal sheep hearing a literal voice), he is referring to believers hearing his words - that I agree. But nowhere in scripture is the Lord's "voice" a metaphor for thoughts and feeling. It is however a frequently used as a metaphor for scripture...

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:11 "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice;"
1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 11:3-4 "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant which I commanded your forefathers ..., saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

So the obvious interpretation of John 10:27 that we will hear Jesus's words through scripture (not via thoughts and feelings).

Don't take that verse out of context. The "anointing" that "abides in you" is not referring to thoughts and feelings - there is absolutely no indication of that. Rather it is referring to the same thing that "abides in you" two verses earlier: "If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, " v24. ie God's word.

This is confirmed by the end of the passage you quoted (but which you omitted):

v26 but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

It cannot refer to God personally speaking as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun is he was referring personally to God or his Spirit.

Again you are taking that verse out of context. The "you" that Jesus refers to in this passage is not every believer, but solely the apostles whom he is addressing. It is part of the same discourse where Jesus instructs the disciples about the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost....

v7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you....".

The "you" here is clearly the 11 disciples. Now look at the verse immediately before the one you quoted (still part of the same discourse),

v12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

It is still clearly addressed to the disciples personally. Then we have your verse, but there is no change of context between v12 and v13. It is the same "you":

v13 "He will guide you [the apostles] into all the truth".

And that is what happened. As spokemen for Christ, the truth was revealed to them by the inspiration of the Spirit.

Being deaf to scripture is a serious condition.

Just wondering,

How do you respond to the scripture

John 14:27
"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.

Col 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.

Is peace not a feeling?

The latter in the Greek is closer to 'Let the peace of God be the judge of all things in your heart.

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2019

Francis Drake said:
The whole of the scriptures are full end to end of God speaking to people, and them hearing his voice. How on earth do you think they wrote the scriptures?
If you can't see God speaking to people in the scriptures, then you have a serious problem with unbelief.

Show me where in scripture God speaks to people via their thoughts and feelings.

It doesn't say how the apostles received the words they used when writing scripture. Scripture is a form of prophecy (2 Peter 1:20) so presumably God literally spoke to them, as He did the prophets. But that is irrelevant as we are discussing how God speaks to everyday believers, not scripture writing apostles.

Francis Drake said:
Sometimes it comes deep within, as if bypassing the ear drum and straight to the nerve.
Occasionally it comes audibly via the ear, including loud enough to wake me from sleep.
Its hard to tell sometimes.

So in your story you heard a voice in your head speaking to you in English? Or was a hunch?

Francis Drake said:
Tell me though, how do you think Satan speaks to people when he deceives them?

Satan can tempt us, but I can't think of anywhere that says Satan speaks to us.

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Just wondering,

How do you respond to the scripture

John 14:27
"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you.

Col 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.

Is peace not a feeling?

The latter in the Greek is closer to 'Let the peace of God be the judge of all things in your heart.

I'm not arguing that feelings aren't a part of being a Christian. Peace is one of the fruits of the Spirit, along with joy which is also a feeling. So sure the ministry of the Holy Spirit can involve our feelings. All I am saying that there no biblical justification for people claiming their thoughts, feelings, hunches, etc is God telling them specific things. In fact it is a highly dangerous presumption for obvious reasons.

swordsman1 · Sep 10, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Well presented arguments - like what Jesus had to contend with.

Have a read of part of my testimony here... Jesus's Ministry

He was told not to heal on the Sabbath and that He had a demon.

It is all very familiar.

So you agree my arguments make sense but then you liken them to the lies made about Jesus? Hmmm...somewhat of a contradiction I think. If my arguments are wrong please correct me.

Carl Emerson · Sep 11, 2019

I said you had well presented arguments - I didn't say I agree with them.

I think partly you fall for the trap of leaning on non-mention as a validation for a matter being false.

It has taken me years to cultivate an ear for what is His guidance through inner promptings and I can site plenty of examples of this being validated.

Peace must be there, harmony with scriptures teaching must be there, openness to discussion must be there.

Had I not acted on these promptings I would have repeatedly missed out on opportunities to partner in His purpose.

There is a general fear of allowing folks to follow what they think Jesus is saying for fear of it being a bad outcome. This fear stifles the real thing. In a healthy fellowship supportive love is there to gently correct if necessary and help folks learn.

We ran a 24 hour drop in centre for street kids in Christchurch. When you do something like that you have to be gifted appropriately or you are mince meat.

I used to be told clearly when trouble makers were arriving and we were prepared .

Our intercessors would pray when we went out and commonly got a vision of who we were to talk to.

Guidance to the needy was very specific.

These gifts are released when they are needed. Most folks don't put themselves out on the edge of the kingdom so the gifts are not needed.

My partner in ministry Neville Logan repented of not speaking to a prostitute, and asked for a second chance... They very next day she was riding down the road on a bike and collapsed in a heap in front of him because the chain came off ! This time he shared with her, her room became our chapel, and we got her kids into Sunday school. We saw Jesus at work like this often.

One of the reasons I am on CF is to encourage others to the exciting walk with Him out on the edge of the kingdom.

Very often following this inner voice would lead to the miraculous.

We were not taught how to serve this way, we learned by doing and putting ourselves at risk. The street folk can sense when your faith is not authentic, but they are attracted to the light like moths.
However rarely are folk there for them, and if we aren't, the enemy will be.

swordsman1 · Sep 11, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
I said you had well presented arguments - I didn't say I agree with them.

Where did I go wrong in my proof that the scriptures you quoted have nothing to do with thoughts and feelings?

Carl Emerson said:
I think partly you fall for the trap of leaning on non-mention as a validation for a matter being false.

So you believe there is a major means of communication from God to man that has no mention in scripture, and in fact goes against what scripture says about our thoughts and feelings (Isa 55:8, Prov 28:26, Jer 17:9)?

Scripture says "Do not go beyond what is written" (1 Cor 4:6).

Carl Emerson said:
It has taken me years to cultivate an ear for what is His guidance through inner promptings and I can site plenty of examples of this being validated.

Peace must be there, harmony with scriptures teaching must be there, openness to discussion must be there.

Had I not acted on these promptings I would have repeatedly missed out on opportunities to partner in His purpose.

There is a general fear of allowing folks to follow what they think Jesus is saying for fear of it being a bad outcome. This fear stifles the real thing. In a healthy fellowship supportive love is there to gently correct if necessary and help folks learn.

There is nothing wrong with seeking guidance from God when facing a decision. It depends where you are looking for that source of guidance. If you are presuming that thoughts popping into your head, hunches, or gut feelings is God telling you what to do, then not only is it unbiblical but it is a highly dangerous approach to take. Scripture tells us that thoughts and feelings are unreliable.

God gave us Scripture as a guide for life, and he gave us intelligence and common sense to put those guidelines into practice for everyday decisions. God is in control of all things, and if we pray for wisdom and make rational decisions based on guidance from his word, then we can be sure that whatever happens it will be in accordance with his will.

Carl Emerson · Sep 11, 2019

Sorry but I find your position not only arrogant but unadulterated nonsense.

... and you continue to incorrectly represent my position.

I hold Scripture central to my understanding - just because I disagree with your interpretations doesn't make me something of a heretic.

I have seen to much of Jesus at close range reaching out with me to touch the lost and infirmed and you judge me for it !!!

That is in fact exactly the treatment Jesus got on the Sabbath from those who 'knew better'...

And at a time when conversion growth in the Church is at an all time low, you want to bag the few who have given all to follow Him and join in His purpose in reaching out to the lost with His love and power.

Pleeeeze... Give it a break...

swordsman1 · Sep 11, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Sorry but I find your position not only arrogant but unadulterated nonsense.

... and you continue to incorrectly represent my position.

I hold Scripture central to my understanding - just because I disagree with your interpretations doesn't make me something of a heretic.

I have seen to much of Jesus at close range reaching out with me to touch the lost and infirmed and you judge me for it !!!

That is in fact exactly the treatment Jesus got on the Sabbath from those who 'knew better'...

And at a time when conversion growth in the Church is at an all time low, you want to bag the few who have given all to follow Him and join in His purpose in reaching out to the lost with His love and power.

Pleeeeze... Give it a break...

I can understand your hostility, it's a natural reaction when people's deep-seated beliefs are biblically challenged. Hopefully it gives people at least something to think and pray about, and maybe research further in their own time. If you still think my theology (which is mainstream conservative evangelical) is wrong please feel free to refute it, I'm more than willing to discuss theology in a civilized manner.

tturt · Sep 13, 2019

His last post includes "i hold Scripture central to my understanding."

Cessionists have heard God because "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

There are believers who witness in countries where they could be killed. Some of their testimonies reveal they are alive because they hear God. Here's one I heard yesterday - In this type of setting with an interpreter, Jesus told an evangelist to ask a guy passing by are you worried about your daughter. The man got upset and demanded to know how did he know his daughter. The evangelist responded that Jesus is showing him there's something in her blood and it's killing her. The man acknowledged that she has leukemia and her dr says she only has one more month to live. After a few tense moments, the evangelist tells him before he gets home that Jesus is completely healing and restoring her. The guy calls home, at the evangelist suggestion, his wife is screaming and reporting - 3 min ago our daughter jumped out of bed and is yelling it's gone. It's all gone. He and his family became believers. Now they take risks and witness.

Carl Emerson · Sep 14, 2019

Just for the record I was a member of a Baptist church for 7 years during the ministry I described and the Pastor Murray Robertson said that the church was not within a bulls roar of what we were doing in the centre city. I had his full support. As for my beliefs being biblically challenged, what utter nonsense. This holier than thou attitude that judges others does not bring glory to our Lord. We had sometimes 25 or so folk around the communion table and often folks would be spontaneously healed as we broke bread. Jesus was touching lives all over the place and you want to find fault !!! But hey as you say I must be in error because Jesus doesn't do that today and it must therefore be all demonic. It is a weird business, the church teaches a living Christ, but if you dare move into a realm where you forsake all and follow Him, and He starts to use you radically you are in serious trouble from the Naysayers. And if I dare get deeply concerned about it, I am considered hostile and you then conclude that your presentation of the word is having its effect, and I definitely must be in error. Meantime the folks on the street are still not fed with the Word, but the 'believers' are OK - safe within the four walls of the church. How bizarre is that?

tturt · Sep 14, 2019

Our church was told by a prophet that we would be likev a hospital. People would come in and get healed. Then go out and witness for The Lord.

Sounds good.

We formed a committee. Ordered extra religious salvation materials to give them. Got a few more chairs for Sunday School classes and stocked refreshment area better. Prayed. Ok. Thought we would see folks like us and thought we were ready.

If I can try to give you a glimpse of how some of that played out. Church service greetings - some were the best dressed while others smelled so bad it would make me nauseous. They smelled like urine, alcohol, and body odor. You are faced with some decisions right then. Am I going to greet them like all the others. Plus serve them all the same Some were desperate for attention while others didnt want you to know anything about them not even their names. Some were smiling but were upset. While others werent smiling and angry for a variety of reasons. Others expected you (because you were a church regular) to give them whatever they wanted. ETC All had concerns and problems. Of course, Jesus was the answer for all including the regulars. What that prophet told the church happened. He heard correctly.

Whispering of the "Still Small Voice"

True or False

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