Judas why was he picked?

Strong in Him said:

It might well have been better for Judas if he hadn't been born.
He was once one of the chosen; saw amazing things, performed miracles, touched God himself, if he had believed it. Yet he died alone, in despair and with no hope.



Judas was chosen by Jesus - God himself - to be one of his 12 disciples. He sent Judas out, with the others, to preach the Gospel, heal the sick and drive out demons.
Choosing Judas to be the betrayer makes no sense - God chose Jesus, from the beginning of the world, to die for us and reconcile mankind to God, 1 Peter 1:19-20, John 1:29, Romans 5:11. As this was God's plan of redemption, it would have happened whether Judas had betrayed Jesus or not. From about halfway through his ministry, Jesus began predicting his death. It was going to happen, and he knew it. He didn't need Judas to make it happen; they Pharisees were trying to kill Jesus almost as soon as they met him.
Apart from that, if Judas had been chosen by God to be Jesus' betrayer, then he did God's will - he did what he had been chosen to do.



I'm glad you are so certain about whom the Lord will save.
We won't know til we get to heaven, but I would rather meet God and find out than I was wrong to hope for the best for Judas, than meet God and have him say to me "why did you tell people that I am less merciful than I am?"

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Judas was chosen to be the betrayer, because their is no inefficiency or unknown events or circumstances in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 11:36
For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

This leaves nothing out!
If something happens it is of God, one fashion or another, everything gets approved to occur or not according to His will.

Like Ephesians 1: 11 states
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

ToBeLoved said:

Are you forgetting that Jesus called Judas the son of perdition?

It seems you are going against God’s evaluation of Judas.

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No. But the facts are that Jesus deliberately called Judas knowing he would betray him - gave him the same opportunities as the rest of the 12, sent him out to preach, heal and drive out demons, and washed his feet.
If he had thought that badly of Judas, I don't think he would have done those things; it would be nonsense to give the son of perdition authority over demons, and ask him to preach.
John's Gospel says that Satan only entered into Judas after he took the bread from Jesus - up until that point, I believe he had a choice.

Strong in Him said:

No. But the facts are that Jesus deliberately called Judas knowing he would betray him - gave him the same opportunities as the rest of the 12, sent him out to preach, heal and drive out demons, and washed his feet.
If he had thought that badly of Judas, I don't think he would have done those things; it would be nonsense to give the son of perdition authority over demons, and ask him to preach.
John's Gospel says that Satan only entered into Judas after he took the bread from Jesus - up until that point, I believe he had a choice.

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He DID think that badly of Judas, he said better if he had never been born.
You do understand God ordains things to occur according to His will.
And do you ever think that all of God's works He finished during the creation week?
And after he did plan out all His works, he rested on the 7th day. There are no new unplanned works He does. He is just doing everything He planned from the beginning, and just walking them out. That is how perfect God is. He knows the end from the beginning, and declares the things not yet done as though they were.


3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

sdowney717 said:

He DID think that badly of Judas, he said better if he had never been born.

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Well, you carry on believing these things about Judas if you wish; personally I am more concerned about my own salvation, and walk with God, than that of someone who lived 2000 years ago.

This thread is getting pointless, and has nothing to do with life today.

Strong in Him said:

Well, you carry on believing these things about Judas if you wish; personally I am more concerned about my own salvation, and walk with God, than that of someone who lived 2000 years ago.

This thread is getting pointless, and has nothing to do with life today.

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Well, the thread subject is Judas and why he was chosen and for what purpose, and it was for him to be the betrayer.

Strong in Him said:

Well, you carry on believing these things about Judas if you wish; personally I am more concerned about my own salvation, and walk with God, than that of someone who lived 2000 years ago.

This thread is getting pointless, and has nothing to do with life today.

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Isn’t it rather believing what Jesus Himself said?

ToBeLoved said:

Isn’t it rather believing what Jesus Himself said?

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I don't think it's that black and white.
Yes, Jesus called him a son of perdition - was that because he knew Judas' heart and he knew that, having heard the Good News, seen it in action and even preached it, Judas had made a cold-hearted decision to reject it, and Jesus? If Judas had indeed done that, and killed himself so that there was no opportunity of repentance, then I would agree that he was lost. If he had permanently changed sides, kept the money, become a Pharisee, persecuted the early church and shunned every opportunity to repent and accept the risen Jesus; yes, I would agree that he was lost.
Jesus knew Judas' heart and motives; we don't.
All we know is;
- that Judas betrayed Jesus so that soldiers arrested and killed him - shocking, yes; but Jesus came to die and reconcile us to God. So was Judas ruining God's plan or enabling it to happen?
- that Judas took money off the priests for this betrayal - yes, but he gave it back, declared he had betrayed an innocent man and then killed himself.
- that Judas died before the resurrection, before he could face Jesus and ask for forgiveness - yes, but Peter wasn't expecting the resurrection either and we don't read that he actually repented, or tried to explain why he denied Jesus.

But, to me, giving back money, declaring that he had done something wrong and then killing himself, all indicate some level of remorse. And I believe that God is both compassionate and merciful.
I may be completely wrong; I may get to heaven, find Judas is not there and the Lord may tell me "what did you expect?" If that proves to be the case, so be it.
But like I said, the Lord knows Judas' motives and has judged/will judge him; I never met Judas, couldn't see his heart and it's not my place to judge. Nor will it make any difference to my life if I go around believing that Judas is condemned and in hell. As Jesus said on another occasion; 'what is that to you; you follow me'."

Vicky gould said:

Hi yeshuafan, all I am saying is that not only was Judas revealed in the prophecy you give

all this true of Judas. But so is the Lord declaring that Judas was ‘the” Devil. Twice in. 17:12 and 2 thess. 2 the Lord says Judas is “the son of perdition even calling him “the man of sin.”” And twice the Lord calls him ‘the son of perdition.’ 2 thess is very telling because Judas is also termed the ‘man of sin.” Nowhere are these terms ever meant to be an ordinary man.

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He was not the antichrist, nor the Manof Sin in NT prophecy, but was only person possessed by Satan Himself!

So, been going through the thread and didn't see it addressed (might have missed it). But the claim was made that the definite article is found in John 6:70, and others asked for evidence of this. So here's the Greek text (specifically, this is from the TR),

ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς Οὐκ ἐγὼ ὑμᾶς τοὺς δώδεκα ἐξελεξάμην καὶ ἐξ ὑμῶν εἷς διάβολός ἐστιν

There's no definite article here.

So, looking elsewhere, here's the Nestle-Aland:

ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς· οὐκ ἐγὼ ὑμᾶς τοὺς δώδεκα ἐξελεξάμην; καὶ ἐξ ὑμῶν εἷς διάβολός ἐστιν

Again, no definite article.

Here's the Westcott-Hort:

απεκριθη αυτοις ο ιησους ουκ εγω υμας τους δωδεκα εξελεξαμην και εξ υμων εις διαβολος εστιν

Figured why not go extra nerdy and did some digging to find the passage in a scanned reproduction of Erasmus' 2nd edition, had to screenshot it:



Again, no definite article.

If there is an example of John 6:70 with the definite article, it seems like it would have to be in some manuscript. And as much fun as digging through online scans of papyri might be, I might just leave things here for now.

So, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that there's no definite article here.

-CryptoLutheran

Vicky gould said:

How do you explain the Lord stating that Judas was ‘the Devil” or twice being called by the Lord as being ‘the son of perdition” not a devil or a son of perdition. Clearly in 2 thess. 2 there is not much left to the imagination. The son of perdition, the man of sin was the one who was lost.

We are told about anti- Christ that He was, now is not and will be again.’
Of the Christ this is recorded in the Revelation, “He was, is, will be again.”
This is anti-Christ and the Christ both having been in the world. Ez. 28 reveals to us that anti-Christ was guess where? In the Garden of Eden. So was the Christ in the Garden. Anti-Christ we are told is not now in the world. Being a created being He is not omnipresent and he is now in the Abyss. While Christ being God is omnipresent and though He is in heaven He is also in all of His creation. Lastly we are told both the anti-Christ and the Christ are coming again.

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At one time Judas belonged to Jesus and was one of His disciples and did not belong to the devil or be the devil. He was called a sheep by Jesus sent to the lost sheep and given power to cast out devils. Satan cannot cast our Satan. Read Matthew 10 about Judas and the other apostles given such power and sent out by Jesus with power.

And Jesus spoke John 6:70 far after the apostles had been with him and ministering for a long time. This was closer to the end of His ministry and prophetic of what should happen in the future.

ToBeLoved said:

When did Judas try to cast out Satan?

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Read Matthew 10 and Acts 1 you will see that Jesus gave power to cast out devils to Judas also and we read in Acts 1 that he was successful as the others having “obtained” part of the ministry also.

And when the disciples cane back the 70 they rejoiced that the devil were subject unto them. But Jesus said not to rejoice in this but that their names are written in the Lambs book of life. Judas was also once in that book with the righteous and blotted our compare Acts 1:20 with Psalms 69:25-28.

Vicky gould said:

Thanks for insightful presentation I am sure you be sure you will be stunned I disagree but I hope we can keep a dialogue going as we study to be someone who handles the word properly. I love we both seek to know Him and to proclaim Him with our fellow pilgrims on this journey the spiritual wilderness led by the Rock. What a God, wow

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I'm not sure how you can disagree with plain facts.

Do you have evidence to the contrary? If you have an example of the definite article being present in John 6:70 then would you be willing to present it?

-CryptoLutheran

Vicky gould said:

Sure Arthur w. Pink the Hebrew Greek bible by mr zoldhistes. Sorry I collapsed four days ago and do not have his name off handi quite a number of others. Arthur Pink has written 40 plus commentaries sold and used by Christian outlets, study groups, etc.he has in the opinion of many to have written the most detailed accurate study for possibly the least section of Scripture, the Anti-Christ. Funny how facts we believe are often seen as ‘plain facts” when they maybe neither. I do love hearing your points but sadly I will continue to be guided by mr pink and others. Thanks God bless

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So Pink claims that the definite article exists in the Greek text of John 6:70? What is his source to make such a claim?

-CryptoLutheran

Vicky gould said:

I Amin the hospital, I feel busting a few ribs and they have found some unknown heart problems waiting to if I am getting pacemaker. If you would be so kind to give me few days to hopefully get home and respond as needs be done. I am on some heavier painkillers than I am used to taking.pink’s writings are on c.c.e.l. Which could help advance our discussion. By the way what is cryptolutheran, please/

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Praying for you now

Vicky gould said:

I Amin the hospital, I feel busting a few ribs and they have found some unknown heart problems waiting to if I am getting pacemaker. If you would be so kind to give me few days to hopefully get home and respond as needs be done. I am on some heavier painkillers than I am used to taking.pink’s writings are on c.c.e.l. Which could help advance our discussion. By the way what is cryptolutheran, please/

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May the Lord offer you a speedy and full recovery.

When I first joined Christian Forums my username was CryptoLutheran, about a year or not even a year afterward I lost my sign-in information and the email I used associated with that username. So I made a new username, this one. I continued to sign off with my old name, CryptoLutheran, initially to let people know it was me. Now, many years later, it's largely just become old habit.

I chose the name "CryptoLutheran" because it described my current situation at the time. I was a hidden (crypto) Lutheran; hidden in that I had not yet formally become part of any Lutheran church. I didn't grow up Lutheran, I grew up in an Evangelical and Pentecostal environment. For my first eight years my family attended a non-denominational church, however due to particular circumstances my family was forceably removed and ostracized. My parents then began attending a local Foursquare church, which is what I was part of until around 18 years old. From around the age of 18 until my mid-20's I describe as my wilderness period, as I spent my time learning and being challenged in my faith, I spent my time deep in study of Scripture, studying Christian history, and learning what different Christians believed and why. That time of wilderness eventually had me stumble, quite on accident, into Lutheranism. However I wasn't terribly open about it with family, as I was concerned with how many people in my family might react. And so, I was a hidden Lutheran, a "crypto-Lutheran". That isn't the case any longer, and hasn't been for a long time. But, again, I still sign-off with my old name out of habit.

-CryptoLutheran

ToBeLoved said:

Do you believe that Judas had the devil inside him?

I don’t believe even the devil can thwart prophecy once God has prophesied truth

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Scripture says the devil got into Judas. I believe Judas might be feeling hesitant and afraid before his act. To betray was no trivial stuff, life would never be the same after, he would be scorned at by people.

At last supper, Jesus told him to go ahead, and the devil pushed him. If Judas didn't betray at that point of time, he would have betrayed at another time. The choice to betray was his, but the time of the act was determined by God or Jesus.