What does the Baptism of the Spirit look like today?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 10, 2019

lismore said:
Hi highlighter. Thanks for your kind and thoughtful post. I would say that if there isn't an apostle present, then there won't be apostolic gifts present. However God is still sovereign and supernatural, therefore I don't think the supernatural can be written off completely.

The problem is that Paul calls himself the last apostle (1 Corinthians 4:9).
Also the criteria for being an apostle was in having seen the risen Lord.
Paul appears to suggest this in 1 Corinthians 9:1, and we learn that Matthias was an apostle chosen to replace Judas who also had seen the risen Lord (Acts of the Apostles 1:21-26).
Ephesians 2:19-20 says,
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"

Who was built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets? The Ephesian (Gentile) church or believers in whom Paul was writing to. These believers were BUILT upon the foundation of the apostles and they were not apostles themselves. This shows us the temporary nature of certain gifts given to the early church. For apostleship gift has clearly ceased. Even some Continuationists will at least admit to this fact. But they will not allow for themselves to see how other certain gifts have ended, though (Like with Paul no longer being able to heal by sending out clothes that are able to heal people).

You said:
James 5:14-15 for example talks of a prayer of faith by elders bringing healing to the sick. We still have elders today do we not? Indeed in my church (I'm in a Baptist Church) several people have been healed when the elders prayer for and anointed the person with oil.

Again, this is not the same thing. They prayed and hope that God would heal them. This is not a gift but elders praying with the anointing of oil in the HOPE that they will be healed. There is no gift being given to a person to heal 100% of the time like it was for certain men of God in the early church. Everyone was healed when folks fell into the shadow of Peter. This was an act of God to confirm that they were apostles from GOD and that they would be authoritative to write Holy Scripture.

Regarding the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I agree with you that Christians receive the Holy Spirit the moment they believe. However in Acts 2, Acts 19 believers received a second experience of the Holy Spirit. They already believed, they had already received the Holy Spirit, there was a second experience. Now this teaching can be poisoned by false teachers and extremists making exaggerated claims, but there it is.

Acts 2, and Acts 19 was not a second experience with the Holy Spirit but it was their first experience. The devout Jews from different regions had experienced the working of the Spirit for the first time in Acts 2. Peter said that these men were not drunk to those who doubted. Peter and the other disciples first received the Holy Spirit before this event when Jesus breathed the Spirit on to them. In Acts 19, they did not even know of any Holy Ghost yet.

You said:
As for prophecy, I think a large part of prophecy is a word in season. A verse or passage in the bible which God leads you to speak or share at that moment for a particular purpose. Indeed did the Lord Jesus not share from the scroll of Isaiah in the synagogue 'The Spirit of the Lord is now upon me', (Luke 4:16-19) this is prophecy. God Bless

The problem with this line of thinking is that if prophecy is still to be continued then we need to add these words to the Bible in some way because they are equally authoritative in being the Word of God. There are many who add to the Bible today and this is when they are in contradiction with Scripture. There is no added new holy words or books or church traditions that can be added to the Bible.

Yahkov · Sep 10, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Prophecy and the other spiritual gifts ended when John finished writing down the book (scroll) of Revelation in 100 A.D. The perfect had finally come. The canon of Scripture was now complete to be spread to all. Beyond Revelation, there is no new prophecies. God spoke what He wanted us to hear with the Scriptures that would become known as the Bible.

I'd like to start with this.

"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." - 1 Corinthians 13:8-12

To understand correctly, if we say the perfect is the completion of Scriptures canon, then we'd have to say prophecy, tongues, and knowledge have all passed away. I'd like to point out that the miraculous gifts such as the gift of healing is not included in this list. If you could provide Scripture that suggests their passing with the arrival of this "perfect", it would be appreciated. Outside of that, I'll keep my focus in this reply on prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Prophecy and tongues passing away are easy concepts to grasp with your stance. Knowledge is where I would like so more information on.

So my two questions I have is, Biblically speaking, why do we also say other spiritual gifts like the gift of healing has passed away and what knowledge has passed away that we now know fully?

"And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."" - Acts 2:38-39

Reading the above passage, looks like the promise is for everyone whom the Lord calls.

BCsenior · Sep 12, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Prophecy and the other spiritual gifts ended when John finished writing down
the book (scroll) of Revelation in 100 A.D. The perfect had finally come.
The canon of Scripture was now complete to be spread to all.

Thou art back in the Dark Ages re: this topic.
IMO, all denominations have finally come to the realization that the perfect to come is Jesus!
Check it out and be enlightened.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 12, 2019

Yahkov said:
I'd like to start with this.

"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." - 1 Corinthians 13:8-12

To understand correctly, if we say the perfect is the completion of Scriptures canon, then we'd have to say prophecy, tongues, and knowledge have all passed away. I'd like to point out that the miraculous gifts such as the gift of healing is not included in this list. If you could provide Scripture that suggests their passing with the arrival of this "perfect", it would be appreciated. Outside of that, I'll keep my focus in this reply on prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Prophecy and tongues passing away are easy concepts to grasp with your stance. Knowledge is where I would like so more information on.

So my two questions I have is, Biblically speaking, why do we also say other spiritual gifts like the gift of healing has passed away and what knowledge has passed away that we now know fully?

"And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."" - Acts 2:38-39

Reading the above passage, looks like the promise is for everyone whom the Lord calls.

Cessationists (or Partial Cessationists) believe that this is talking about new revelatory knowledge or new supernatural knowledge imparted directly from God. We are talking about new words or knowledge here and not knowledge in general or knowledge of God's Word. For if you believe all knowledge will pass away entirely when Christ returns does that mean you believe you will be lobotomized? Surely not. Well, I sure hope not. The Bible is a complete revelatory package. It is all the knowledge of God that we need today.

Yahkov · Sep 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Cessationists (or Partial Cessationists) believe that this is talking about new revelatory knowledge or new supernatural knowledge imparted directly from God. We are talking about new words or knowledge here and not knowledge in general or knowledge of God's Word. For if you believe all knowledge will pass away entirely when Christ returns does that mean you believe you will be lobotomized? Surely not. Well, I sure hope not. The Bible is a complete revelatory package. It is all the knowledge of God that we need today.

Thank you for this. What about the other spiritual gifts outside of knowledge, prophecy, and tongues? Why do cessationists conclude that those gifts have passed away even though 1 Corinthians 13 doesn't even mention them? Instead of hurling a rebuttal at you, I'd rather gather a deeper understanding into cessationism.

Although I would like to share this verse...

"Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." - John 21:25

Bible Highlighter · Sep 13, 2019

Yahkov said:
Thank you for this. What about the other spiritual gifts outside of knowledge, prophecy, and tongues? Why do cessationists conclude that those gifts have passed away even though 1 Corinthians 13 doesn't even mention them? Instead of hurling a rebuttal at you, I'd rather gather a deeper understanding into cessationism.

Although I would like to share this verse...

"Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." - John 21:25

God giving us limited instructions for believers today does not conflict with exhaustive or more abundant knowledge.

I have known for years that there is information beyond the scope of the Bible that the Bible even mentions. In fact, there are other books mentioned in the Bible that were never got to see. Here is a list I compiled with a little help from an article I read a long time ago.

The Different Books Mentioned in the Bible:

A. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Word of God in Heaven.
#2. The Lamb's Book of Life.
#3. The Book of Remembrance.
#4. Unnamed Book That Has All Our Members Written Within It.
#5. The Book (Scroll) of the Seven Seals.
#6. Unnamed Books of Judgment.
#7. The Unnamed Little Books That Ezekiel and John Eat.

B. Earthly Books:

I. Spiritual and or Prophetic:

#1. Samuel's Book of the Manner of the Kingdom.
#2. The Book of Nathan the Prophet.
#3. The Book of Gad the Seer.
#4. The Acts of Solomon.
#5. Solomon's Many Other Proverbs and Songs.
#6. The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite.
#7. The Story of the Prophet Iddo.
#8. The Visions of Iddo the Seer.
#9. The Book of Shemaiah the Prophet.
#10. The Sayings of the Seers.
#11. Paul's Earlier Epistle to the Corinthians About Fornication.

II. Historical:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. The Book of the Wars of the Lord.
#3. The Book of Jasher.
#4. David's Letter to Joab.
#5. The Book of Jehu.
#6. Jehu's 1st Letter to Samaria.
#7. Jehu's 2nd Letter to Samaria.
#8. Unfinished Record of Princes Not Added to Chronicles.
#9. Writings of David and Solomon on Passover Keepings.
#10. Actions of King Uzziah Not Recorded in the Book of Isaiah.
#11. Mordecai's Purim Announcement Letter to the Jews.
#12. Esther & Mordecai's 2nd Confirmation Letter of Purim.

C. Possible Other Books.

I. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. Library (Larger Than Earth) on the Complete Life of Jesus.

II. Earthly Books:

#1. The Book of the Kings of Israel.
#2. The Book of the Kings of Judah.
#3. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
#4. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah.

D. God's People Revealing Past New Oral Prophecies:

#1. Writer of Hebrews Reveals a New Oral Prophecy of Jesus.
#2. Jude Reveals an Unknown New Oral Prophecy of Enoch.

E. Secular or Wordly Writings in God's Word:

I. God's People Verbally Quoting Secular Writings:

#1. Paul Quotes an Inscription on an Athenian Altar.
#2. Paul Quotes Epimenides' de Oraculis.
#3. Paul Quotes Aratus' Phaenomena (A Poem).
#4. Paul Quotes Menander's Poetry.
#5. Paul Quotes Epimenides' Paradox.

II. Secular Works Transcribed (In Part or In It's Entirety):

#1. Jezebel's Letters to the Officials of Naboth's City.
#2. Sennacherib's Letter to Hezekiah.
#3. Huram's Letter to Solomon.
#4. Shemaiah's Letter to Zephaniah on the Exile Prophecy.
#5. King Cyrus's Proclamation to All His Kingdom.
#6. Enemies of Judah Led by 3 Men Write a Letter to Artaxerxes.
#7. Artaxerxes Letter in Reply to the 3 Men.
#8. Govenor Tatnai Writes to Darius About the Jews Rebuilding.
#9. Darius' Decree to Help Rebuild the Temple.
#10. Artaxerxe's Approval Letter to Ezra to Rebuild the Wall.
#11. Sanballat Threatens Nehemiah to Stop Building the Wall.
#12. Chief Captain Claudius Lysias' Letter to Governor Felix.

III. Secular Works Mentioned By Name But Not Shown:

#1. Benhadad's Letter to the King of Israel.
#2. Berodachbaladan's Letters to Hezekiah.
#3. Artaxerxe's Letters to Nehemiah in Rebuilding the Wall.
#4. Tobaiah & the Judean Noble's Letters Sent to Nehemiah.
#5. The Chronicles of the Kings of Media and Persia.
#6. Xerxe's Unintended Decree (By Haman) to Kill the Jews.
#7. Xerxe's Decree for the Jews to Protect Themselves.
#8. High Priest's Letters Enabling Saul to Round-up Christians.

Please take note that these are actual books (scrolls), writings, or letters mentioned in the Bible. I had verses for each one of these books, but the forum I had posted this one on had taken down a lot of their old posts. In any event, I hope you find this resource helpful and may God bless you.

Yahkov · Sep 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
God giving us limited instructions for believers today does not conflict with exhaustive or more abundant knowledge.

I have known for years that there is information beyond the scope of the Bible that the Bible even mentions. In fact, there are other books mentioned in the Bible that were never got to see. Here is a list I compiled with a little help from an article I read a long time ago.

The Different Books Mentioned in the Bible:

A. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Word of God in Heaven.
#2. The Lamb's Book of Life.
#3. The Book of Remembrance.
#4. Unnamed Book That Has All Our Members Written Within It.
#5. The Book (Scroll) of the Seven Seals.
#6. Unnamed Books of Judgment.
#7. The Unnamed Little Books That Ezekiel and John Eat.

B. Earthly Books:

I. Spiritual and or Prophetic:

#1. Samuel's Book of the Manner of the Kingdom.
#2. The Book of Nathan the Prophet.
#3. The Book of Gad the Seer.
#4. The Acts of Solomon.
#5. Solomon's Many Other Proverbs and Songs.
#6. The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite.
#7. The Story of the Prophet Iddo.
#8. The Visions of Iddo the Seer.
#9. The Book of Shemaiah the Prophet.
#10. The Sayings of the Seers.
#11. Paul's Earlier Epistle to the Corinthians About Fornication.

II. Historical:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. The Book of the Wars of the Lord.
#3. The Book of Jasher.
#4. David's Letter to Joab.
#5. The Book of Jehu.
#6. Jehu's 1st Letter to Samaria.
#7. Jehu's 2nd Letter to Samaria.
#8. Unfinished Record of Princes Not Added to Chronicles.
#9. Writings of David and Solomon on Passover Keepings.
#10. Actions of King Uzziah Not Recorded in the Book of Isaiah.
#11. Mordecai's Purim Announcement Letter to the Jews.
#12. Esther & Mordecai's 2nd Confirmation Letter of Purim.

C. Possible Other Books.

I. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. Library (Larger Than Earth) on the Complete Life of Jesus.

II. Earthly Books:

#1. The Book of the Kings of Israel.
#2. The Book of the Kings of Judah.
#3. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
#4. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah.

D. God's People Revealing Past New Oral Prophecies:

#1. Writer of Hebrews Reveals a New Oral Prophecy of Jesus.
#2. Jude Reveals an Unknown New Oral Prophecy of Enoch.

E. Secular or Wordly Writings in God's Word:

I. God's People Verbally Quoting Secular Writings:

#1. Paul Quotes an Inscription on an Athenian Altar.
#2. Paul Quotes Epimenides' de Oraculis.
#3. Paul Quotes Aratus' Phaenomena (A Poem).
#4. Paul Quotes Menander's Poetry.
#5. Paul Quotes Epimenides' Paradox.

II. Secular Works Transcribed (In Part or In It's Entirety):

#1. Jezebel's Letters to the Officials of Naboth's City.
#2. Sennacherib's Letter to Hezekiah.
#3. Huram's Letter to Solomon.
#4. Shemaiah's Letter to Zephaniah on the Exile Prophecy.
#5. King Cyrus's Proclamation to All His Kingdom.
#6. Enemies of Judah Led by 3 Men Write a Letter to Artaxerxes.
#7. Artaxerxes Letter in Reply to the 3 Men.
#8. Govenor Tatnai Writes to Darius About the Jews Rebuilding.
#9. Darius' Decree to Help Rebuild the Temple.
#10. Artaxerxe's Approval Letter to Ezra to Rebuild the Wall.
#11. Sanballat Threatens Nehemiah to Stop Building the Wall.
#12. Chief Captain Claudius Lysias' Letter to Governor Felix.

III. Secular Works Mentioned By Name But Not Shown:

#1. Benhadad's Letter to the King of Israel.
#2. Berodachbaladan's Letters to Hezekiah.
#3. Artaxerxe's Letters to Nehemiah in Rebuilding the Wall.
#4. Tobaiah & the Judean Noble's Letters Sent to Nehemiah.
#5. The Chronicles of the Kings of Media and Persia.
#6. Xerxe's Unintended Decree (By Haman) to Kill the Jews.
#7. Xerxe's Decree for the Jews to Protect Themselves.
#8. High Priest's Letters Enabling Saul to Round-up Christians.

Please take note that these are actual books (scrolls), writings, or letters mentioned in the Bible. I had verses for each one of these books, but the forum I had posted this one on had taken down a lot of their old posts. In any event, I hope you find this resource helpful and may God bless you.

Very interesting. I guess my last question regarding this will be...when we enter into eternal glory, will there be a more perfect knowledge we receive or is the Bible it? So to speak, the Bible is the face to face, the know as we are fully known?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 13, 2019

Yahkov said:
Very interesting. I guess my last question regarding this will be...when we enter into eternal glory, will there be a more perfect knowledge we receive or is the Bible it? So to speak, the Bible is the face to face, the know as we are fully known?

What is the meaning of "face to face" in 1 Corinthians 13? Well, I believe we will see our image conform or change to the image of Christ in light of the "Bible / Glass / Mirror" by our obedience to Jesus's commands (Note: See the pictures below within this post). As we obey His Word, we conform more to the likeness of Christ and when we look in the mirror of God's Word (the Bible), we see the image of Christ in the reflection and not our old reflection by the fact that we are conforming to that "perfect Word" that He has given us. So yes. We do see Christ in the mirror "face to face" but it is only by our conforming to Christ by our obedience to Him. The focus of 1 Corinthians 13 is love. Loving as Christ loved. As a whole: 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 13, 1 Corinthians 14 are dealing with gifts. Although these gifts were necessary at one time (to confirm the Word of the New Covenant and the early church), these gifts have ceased, and they are no longer needed (Because that which is "perfect" has come, i.e. the Bible) whereby we can be "perfect" or be a "mature man" by obeying God's Word by faith (and not by sight). For 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine so that the man of God may be perfect unto every good work.

"And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord..." (2 Corinthians 3:18) (AMPC).

"As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord’s Spirit." (2 Corinthians 3:18) (ISV).

"The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master." (John 6:40).

2 "Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure."
(1 John 3:2-3).

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2).

16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Gifts are something people can see. But the Word of God (the Bible) is a faith thing.

Jesus said,
"...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29).

This would be us today with the Bible.
We don't need spiritual gifts to see in order to believe.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1).

Side Note:

The second image (above) that has a picture of Christ is not what Jesus obviously looks like. I only posted this image for illustrative purposes only. Jesus is not white or European and He more than likely did not have long hair, either.

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What does the Baptism of the Spirit look like today?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Yahkov

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BCsenior

Still an evangelist

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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Yahkov

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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Yahkov

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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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