How do you feel about climate change? Is it affecting our world negatively?

Sparagmos said:

Scientists aren’t propagandists, but the fossil fuel industry is certainly linked to pretty much all of the propaganda denying climate change and it’s effects.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that that is totally true.. I think that fossil fuels is the method that best suits... It's whatever they can use to drain your money and put it in their pockets... Fossil fuels just fit at this time..
Corruption knows no limits.
Fossil fuel is the low hanging fruit.

JacksBratt said:

You may be able to do all that.. but you cannot turn the earths thermostat up or down... Man controlling climate is arrogant thoughts.

But, that is what man does. We believe that we are this great force... Well, God is soon going to show us how pathetically weak and insignificant our "power" is.

Click to expand...

Nobody I know has claimed they can turn up earths theromostat.
What scientists are saying is simply we have started an effect which we need to reduce and start to understand and see how we can effect it and possibly balance the bad effects.

Some talk about changing the climate of Mars, or putting a community on the moon, or harvesting astroids. But this is all aspirations, without the cost and realistic possibilities.

What we do know, is one new major discovery, like a cheap way of creating electricity from the sun, will change energy requirements and balances considerably.

Some discoveries will unlock things that we did not expect. Just a small jump in battery technology and driverless cars, will effect our reliance on cars we leave stationary in the streets of all our cities or say we need to simply go from a to b.

Add 3d interaction through the internet where travel to meetings becomes less important, you change a lot of the dynamics of life and how we spend our time. This is not a time for pessimism but optimism that the best in man through Christ can be expressed better.

klutedavid said:

We don't vote governments into power we actually throw governments out of power.

I'm talking about conservative, right wing, that is business as usual types of government. Think Trump, Johnston, Merkel, Morrison, e.t.c.

The world is being very badly managed by governments around the world.

We desperately need a one world government. Because humanity cannot possibly survive with nations competing with one another. Tensions are rising every year between these states.

The world is much worse now than it was twenty years ago. Too many problems, too few resources and way too many people. Half the population does not want to vote because nothing ever changes.

Someone sooner or later has to act because we cannot continue the way we are.

Click to expand...

There is a belief that man can control society.
But it is the other way around. Creativity needs to be allowed to prosper, to decide those things and strategies that are successful and those that will fail. You cannot invent this effect or control it, but you can stop interference and constrain excessive exploitation.

The modern technological culture exists because what works comes to dominate simply because it gets used not because an individual chooses and forces others to behave a particular way.

God created the world like this. God offers man to reach their creative peak, and then to let His love touch mans heart and bring fulfilment and eternity into existence. Society works because integrity, honesty, truth, commitment, consistency matter above everything else. And the Lord himself empowers His people to walk in this and His ways. The Lord sows and waits for His love and truth to bare fruit and reaps the results. The fantastic thing is these are eternal realities that in Christ we can experience and see work out. We can trust Him and His blessing, Amen.

LightLoveHope said:

Nobody I know has claimed they can turn up earths theromostat.
What scientists are saying is simply we have started an effect which we need to reduce and start to understand and see how we can effect it and possibly balance the bad effects.

Some talk about changing the climate of Mars, or putting a community on the moon, or harvesting astroids. But this is all aspirations, without the cost and realistic possibilities.

What we do know, is one new major discovery, like a cheap way of creating electricity from the sun, will change energy requirements and balances considerably.

Some discoveries will unlock things that we did not expect. Just a small jump in battery technology and driverless cars, will effect our reliance on cars we leave stationary in the streets of all our cities or say we need to simply go from a to b.

Add 3d interaction through the internet where travel to meetings becomes less important, you change a lot of the dynamics of life and how we spend our time. This is not a time for pessimism but optimism that the best in man through Christ can be expressed better.

Click to expand...

I admire your optimism.. I don't have it..

Tesla had a cheap, free, way to supply electricity to the world. Westinghouse took it, shelved it and it will never be seen again.

Anything and everything will be exploited by the rich and powerful. We are not affecting the climate but it makes a real good story to make millions of dollars from those that don't question anything.

Yes, we should keep the earth clean.... land air and water.... but it ain't causing us to heat up.. All the data is carefully filtered to show what they want it to show.... Unless you are measuring, observing and recording these for yourself... it's all propaganda to push and agenda.

The loudest voice will be the one heard.. right now it's the voice of climate change shouting and drowning out those with valid data to contradict the panic... That's the way they want it... Ridicule those that oppose the panic.

klutedavid said:

I think that is the case, no real solution to an ever increasing series of accelerating global problems. I think the time for any action on a global scale passed fifty years ago. It's probably done and dusted now.

Click to expand...

So speaks the pessimists until the solution is discovered that changes everything.
Just look back at the challenges our society has faced and how science and technology have discovered ways round it, and a way to move forward.

Things move more slowly than we can imagine, because they have to really work and there are always more details that need putting in their correct place before it can truly come to fruition.

A simple thing is the computer mouse. It was an idea that stood still for 10 years or so until apple took hold of it, and applied it to windows concepts and how to manipulate data on a computer screen.

I was listening to the radio the other day, and they are talking using nanotubes for transistors in a 3d arrangement which will explode the power of computer chips compared to silicon chips currently.

I can see how this could explode the power possible.

So this simply tells me, do not limit where we are going to go, but just this is probably the most exciting time to be alive in the history of mankind. Amen.

JacksBratt said:

I admire your optimism.. I don't have it..

Tesla had a cheap, free, way to supply electricity to the world. Westinghouse took it, shelved it and it will never be seen again.

Anything and everything will be exploited by the rich and powerful. We are not affecting the climate but it makes a real good story to make millions of dollars from those that don't question anything.

Yes, we should keep the earth clean.... land air and water.... but it ain't causing us to heat up.. All the data is carefully filtered to show what they want it to show.... Unless you are measuring, observing and recording these for yourself... it's all propaganda to push and agenda.

The loudest voice will be the one heard.. right now it's the voice of climate change shouting and drowning out those with valid data to contradict the panic... That's the way they want it... Ridicule those that oppose the panic.

Click to expand...

My friend, much better to have an enemy that is climate change than some political empire that is trying to kill us, and we need tanks, guns, bombs and doomsday bombs.

In truth we need to reduce energy consumption, to improve our emotional, cultural and relationship interactions, we need to solve the ageing population in care homes which we are on the border of not being able to afford. The rise of support robots is coming, which will blur the need for our massive populations and children.

The manipulation of genetics, the body through augmented body parts, our knowledge of perception and memory extension, is going to challenge ethics, valuing of life, opening doors to new experiences and also destructive addictions. Our societies are now overwhelmed with anxiousness and opiate addictions. We may find out that we are actually a deluded creature who needs security and safety to survive. Finding balances through it all is not going to be easy, but the possibilities are very inspiring.

I hope the younger generation can catch the light and the responsibility. We are totally social creatures, integrated and in need, so let us learn and respect that which God has given us as good stewards to bring glory to Him.

JacksBratt said:

I don't believe that that is totally true.. I think that fossil fuels is the method that best suits... It's whatever they can use to drain your money and put it in their pockets... Fossil fuels just fit at this time..
Corruption knows no limits.
Fossil fuel is the low hanging fruit.

Click to expand...

I think a lot of this is jadded thoughts.
Our whole civilisation relies currently on fossil fuels, for energy, food and transport.
There is no reasonable replacement, we currently have 30 years before peak oil hits, extended because of the discovery of fracking sedimentary rock.

We also rely on sand for building concrete structures on a massive scale.
So greed is not the issue, but simply what works. Fuel cell technology was going to change everything 7 years ago, until they found it was not as reliable and stable as the laboratory tests seemed to show.

On the other hand Denmark switched to wind/solar power as an economic foundation over a 10 year period. They proved in the right scale and small mini projects things could work out economically.

What a lot of people do not realise is somebody has to risk their money and resources and a lot of the projects simply do not work, because it just costs too much and the benefits do not match this cost.

I read an analysis of major dam projects in africa. Put simply the cost of the dams, the amount of damage done, the economic constraints and who benefited in terms of cities etc. meant it would have been cheaper to never have done them in the first place. This is not true for all the projects, some in Sweden and Norway have made economic sense, which demonstrates you have to use detailed studies and planning to see what is best.

This has been true for well meaning christians giving tractors etc to help communities. But after 15 years they are derelict, because of fuel costs, spare parts, skills to maintain them, the farming situation which needed particular approaches and not others, which made gifts useless.

There are real answers, but it is in knowing with a good heart, with love and integrity we will overcome. God bless you

I have a lot of experience with projects in Africa. I did that work on Church projects over a period of 15 years, in a variety of African countries.

Let me speak bluntly. You do see a lot of stupid things happening in Africa. Partly the problem is greed and corruption. I was well aware that Africa was corrupt when i got started. But I underestimated the pernicious evil of this problem - it is deeply rooted. So unfortunately ... you do see a lot of excellent projects abandoned because of stupid and ridiculous things that happen. In addition, the widespread lack of education (along with deep rooted superstition) - these forces are very powerful in society there. So is a lack of responsibility for planned outcomes. All of this causes Westerners to become very disenchanted and it causes many projects to fail. Westerners become very jaded.

That being said ... Ariica is being badly affected by Climate Change, at least in some countries (esp. where rapid desertification is taking place). Peoples' lives are being decimated. Many of the farmers and herders are living at the subsistence level. Their crops and animals are being wiped out.

You need to see it with your own eyes. Forget the Internet banter. Go on a missions trip. Sign up. Choose a trip to Kenya or Uganda in an area that is struggling. The experience will open your eyes.

Africa is in the crosshairs for many terrible disasters in the next two decades. It is unavoidable, given the patterns of population growth and the dismal failures in real investment (not the fault of the West). It is very serious.

God does not ask us to look at this with hardened hearts, racist biases, or with cynicism. Just understand that Climate Change is not a game for these people - the lives of many children will be lost. Our hope needs to be rooted in Heaven, not the sick greed of this world.

LightLoveHope said:

Arrogant? What you are typing into and being able to instantly communicate around the world?
We can fly food and goods around the world in 24hrs.
We can move a whole months supply of goods in one ship over 2 weeks on the massive container ships.
We have killed 50% of the living biomass of the world. We have farmed most of the land available to farm on the whole world. We have exceeded what our original farming techniques and would be starving is new crop enhancement technologies were not applied and used.

At no other time in human history have we reached this point. We are in serious danger of fishing out the seas and polluting everything with toxic chemicals. This is physical scientific reality, not arrogance but great sadness, because we have destroyed so much, and are likely to destroy everything.

In my lifetime the population of the world has doubled. Population control techiques in China were thought of as impossible, but worked. We need a generation of people to believe both in our limitations and our possibilities. As believers who believe in the power of love through the Holy Spirit have something to contribute and say. God bless you

Click to expand...

Sorry Not going to applaud China for their "population control". China is known for being one of the most brutal Communist regimes in the world, that *disappears* it's Citizens that criticize the government, that's One -Child policy has lead to forced abortions, Killing millions of Baby girls, police confiscation of children. As for totalitarian brutal communist government sends it's Police to raid home churches , imprisoning of congregation & torturing of Pastors ,re-education camps --AKA the torture of " it's citizens. Laws forbid religious freedom has lead to the brutal capture and torture of Falen Dafa practitioners who have been murdered & tortured , used as captive awake LIVE "*organ donors" .
Because of China's population control it has created a New problem-- reportedly 30 MILLION bachelors because there is a shortage of women to marry. China is also facing a shortage of Workers because of their aging population. The Chinese people are victims of a brutal communist regime.

Pedra said:

Sorry Not going to applaud China for their "population control". China is known for being one of the most brutal Communist regimes in the world, that *disappears* it's Citizens that criticize the government, that's One -Child policy has lead to forced abortions, Killing millions of Baby girls, police confiscation of children, & Government Police raids home churches & imprisoning & torture of Pastors , "re-education --AKA Torture of " it's Citizens . Laws against religious freedom has lead to the brutal capture and torture of Falen Dafa practitioners who have been murdered & tortured by FORCED LIVE "*organ donations" .
Because of China's population control it has created a New problem-- reportedly 30 MILLION bachelors because there is a shortage of women to marry. China is also facing a shortage of Workers because of their aging population.

Click to expand...

I think this is our population dilemma. If China had not tried to shrink their population we would literally have been in an impossible situation. I do not agree with their approach, but certainly we need to accept we are a limited human population with constraints we have to recognise or we are destroying ourselves.

I have 3 kids, now grown up, but I am one of 3, and am the only one with kids.
I think we need to understand fulfilment in society and belonging to families needs to become a bigger reality than maybe we would like to understand as simple individuals.

How many single people will never find a partner or ever find the social skills to build the required emotional bridges? I am not sure we are going to live stable enough lives in our cities to really get on top of this or be able to cope in ways we used to in smaller communities.

JacksBratt said:

One truth does not mean a lie is OK.

Click to expand...

Of course lying isn't ok, my point was more along the lines of: if both people who do and people who don't believe in man-made climate change are supportive of programs to preserve the ecological system, then why should it be so important to convince one or the other that they are wrong? Why not just focus on the task at hand instead of arguing about the reason?

LightLoveHope said:

I think a lot of this is jadded thoughts.
Our whole civilisation relies currently on fossil fuels, for energy, food and transport.
There is no reasonable replacement, we currently have 30 years before peak oil hits, extended because of the discovery of fracking sedimentary rock.

We also rely on sand for building concrete structures on a massive scale.
So greed is not the issue, but simply what works. Fuel cell technology was going to change everything 7 years ago, until they found it was not as reliable and stable as the laboratory tests seemed to show.

On the other hand Denmark switched to wind/solar power as an economic foundation over a 10 year period. They proved in the right scale and small mini projects things could work out economically.

What a lot of people do not realise is somebody has to risk their money and resources and a lot of the projects simply do not work, because it just costs too much and the benefits do not match this cost.

I read an analysis of major dam projects in africa. Put simply the cost of the dams, the amount of damage done, the economic constraints and who benefited in terms of cities etc. meant it would have been cheaper to never have done them in the first place. This is not true for all the projects, some in Sweden and Norway have made economic sense, which demonstrates you have to use detailed studies and planning to see what is best.

This has been true for well meaning christians giving tractors etc to help communities. But after 15 years they are derelict, because of fuel costs, spare parts, skills to maintain them, the farming situation which needed particular approaches and not others, which made gifts useless.

There are real answers, but it is in knowing with a good heart, with love and integrity we will overcome. God bless you

Click to expand...

I just don't think it's realistic. Wind and Solar are heavilly subsidized & electric bills are heavilly taxed to pay for this "renewable". The citizens of Denmark and Germany have huge electric bills & protest their government. D & G are very moderate climates compared to the extremes in temp in North America. Outages on windless or cloudy days? Increase in Avian & bat mortality. How would families ,elderly, low income pay for the increase in electricity? How about an increase in medical & hospital costs to cover these so called renewables? Expect food prices to sky-rocket, transportation & household taxes. Increase in deaths in North America do to low income population freezing to death in the winter or dying from heat exposure in the summers? Wind & solar are not efficient nor economic and cannot replace what we have.

Sparagmos said:

Scientists aren’t propagandists, but the fossil fuel industry is certainly linked to pretty much all of the propaganda denying climate change and it’s effects.

Click to expand...

That's like saying scientists are not human beings. Then, if money is a motivator. 100’s of billions of taxpayers dollars worldwide is being funneled into climate change science. Only going to those who come to the “correct” conclusions isn’t motivation to lie or only see one set of “facts?
”

The NAZI and USSR regimes were based upon “science.” Those scientists did not engage in propaganda?

Basically, your statement that scientists are not propagandists is propaganda.

LightLoveHope said:

I think this is our population dilemma. If China had not tried to shrink their population we would literally have been in an impossible situation. I do not agree with their approach, but certainly we need to accept we are a limited human population with constraints we have to recognise or we are destroying ourselves.

I have 3 kids, now grown up, but I am one of 3, and am the only one with kids.
I think we need to understand fulfilment in society and belonging to families needs to become a bigger reality than maybe we would like to understand as simple individuals.

How many single people will never find a partner or ever find the social skills to build the required emotional bridges? I am not sure we are going to live stable enough lives in our cities to really get on top of this or be able to cope in ways we used to in smaller communities.

Click to expand...

The justification for committing such evil is not reasonable or Ok.

Look at the industry and profitability that climate change has created whether real or not. That is all they care about. Each age brings a new form of technology to fuel finance. Man continually seeks solutions to the results of past solutions. Quite humourous actually.

timothyu said:

You forgot the out of regulatory zoned ice melting pollution created by the manufacture of your car and A/C

Click to expand...

It's not my problem. I drive a Tesla and it runs on free electric from those big transformers at the superchargers.
There are no powerlines running to them so they get the electricity from the air.
It's also carbon-neutral manufactured because it's made from organic hemp grown in happy happy fields fertilized with Unicorn droppings.
When it wears out after 500,000 miles it can be recycled into disposable diapers which, by the way, are 100% biodegradable.
...and paper straws.

Bruce
Considering that you live in Florida and just dodged a bullet with hurricane Dorian I wouldn’t laugh about a Cat 5 hurricane which is pretty much like a tornado. I have an aunt who lives there and I spent about 3 sleepless nights wondering if I was gonna get that phone call . I guess I don’t think that was too funny

LightLoveHope said:

My friend, much better to have an enemy that is climate change than some political empire that is trying to kill us, and we need tanks, guns, bombs and doomsday bombs.

Click to expand...

Having one does not negate having the other... Climate propaganda is just the method of a political empire that, some day will try to kill you.

One world government is Satanic. Any conspiracy against the people is not in their best interest. Cover ups, lies, deceit.... are all meant to keep you down.

LightLoveHope said:

In truth we need to reduce energy consumption

Click to expand...

How on earth do you plan to do that?

LightLoveHope said:

to improve our emotional, cultural and relationship interactions,

Click to expand...

By this, do you mean bringing peace to the world?

LightLoveHope said:

we need to solve the ageing population in care homes which we are on the border of not being able to afford.

Click to expand...

This sounds a lot like you want to kill people off when they are old and you see no more use for them.. When you see them as a drain on the system... All this after they built up the luxuries that you enjoy?

Sounds like it's right out of a science fiction movie.

LightLoveHope said:

The rise of support robots is coming, which will blur the need for our massive populations and children.

Click to expand...

Heard that before.... the powers that be will still need human slaves... don't be so quick to ignore that.

LightLoveHope said:

The manipulation of genetics, the body through augmented body parts, our knowledge of perception and memory extension, is going to challenge ethics, valuing of life, opening doors to new experiences and also destructive addictions. Our societies are now overwhelmed with anxiousness and opiate addictions. We may find out that we are actually a deluded creature who needs security and safety to survive. Finding balances through it all is not going to be easy, but the possibilities are very inspiring.

Click to expand...

OK?

LightLoveHope said:

I hope the younger generation can catch the light and the responsibility. We are totally social creatures, integrated and in need, so let us learn and respect that which God has given us as good stewards to bring glory to Him.

Click to expand...

OK?

-Sasha- said:

Of course lying isn't ok, my point was more along the lines of: if both people who do and people who don't believe in man-made climate change are supportive of programs to preserve the ecological system, then why should it be so important to convince one or the other that they are wrong? Why not just focus on the task at hand instead of arguing about the reason?

Click to expand...

When government actions and taxes are carried out under false pretenses, it's wrong.... Nothing built on a lie is any good.

The government cannot even deal with crime, efficiently... This whole thing is wasted funds, wasted banter and in a few decades they will be on to some other catastrophic event that doesn't come to pass.

JacksBratt said:

When government actions and taxes are carried out under false pretenses, it's wrong.... Nothing built on a lie is any good.

The government cannot even deal with crime, efficiently... This whole thing is wasted funds, wasted banter and in a few decades they will be on to some other catastrophic event that doesn't come to pass.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware we are all members of the government capable of enacting legislation; I thought we were just having a discussion here.