What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

corinth77777

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What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

It cannot be people who do not keep all of the OT Law perfectly, cause none of us do perfectly...?

And it cannot be the people that think they do, because they are wrong and are deceiving themselves and their own minds...?

So what is it...? And who are they...?

Discuss...?

Comments...?

Scripture refers to the "mystery of lawlessness" and the lawless one or ones being revealed, so, what is it and who are they...?

God Bless!
Hi, my OPININATION is
THAT THE MYSTERY IS WHY God allows
Sin to have its way......It like the phrase turn them over to Satan so that soul might be saved.....sin takes you to a place where it leaves you dead....maybe so that you desire life and seek after God...Therefore when ever God's purpose for His elect has been purposefied...then Satan will get to come in full force...and my imagination is that then the war begins...and God wins....

That's my opinion
 
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Neogaia777

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I find it very humorous that the ones who say they don't sin anymore, or don't ever intentionally sin anymore, etc, are the very ones committing some of the worst kinds of sins, the kinds of sins Jesus himself saved some of his sharpest and hardest and harshest rebukes for, like with the Pharisees of old...

We all sin, and if you say you don't, no matter what language you use, intentionally/unintentionally, "whatever", you still do sin, whether you have shut your eyes to it or not, cause that would be intentional... "willful ignorance", walking in pride, etc, is sin as well, and is most of the time "intentional"...

That being said, yes, all sin is lawlessness, but that is not the type of lawlessness I think I am talking about here, I'm talking about deliberate, full on intentionally sinning, without conscience or care, that is the type I am talking about...

That some of those that walk in pride and denial and say they don't sin anymore are guilty of, just like the rest of the truly lawless of the world...

This is why Jesus saved his sharpest rebukes for these types...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I don't mean to sound harsh or patronizing, but...
But...? (warning, people who start out with a statement like this are about to sin, just saying)...

But, but you are, and you might be sinning as well... Your judging, and judging presumptuously, and trying to play God in setting the standard for everyone...

See this thread: How can you think you can judge or play God and set the standard for everyone...?

Your sinning, even right now, yet you don't see it, what a shame...

I don't think you, or those like you, really truly fully realize just how narrow the narrow road really is...?

I don't mean to pick on you specifically @CharismaticLady, for there are many others like you I could pick on, but I had to pick somebody, so, please don't take it personally, K...?

God Bless!
 
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corinth77777

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Not all Christians struggle with sin. That is a false doctrine. Jesus came to take away our sin, and in His there is no sin. That is because those in Christ have been born again and their struggles are replaced with victory.

To experience the truth of the power of Jesus, one must acknowledge and repent of their weakness to sin - the sin nature. Jesus then fills you with His powerful Spirit and the divine nature. No more struggle, for whom Jesus frees (from sin) is free indeed. John 8:34-36
Do you struggle with sin?
 
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Neogaia777

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The type of lawlessness I am talking about is those who go on intentionally, deliberately sinning without conscience or care, laughing it up all the way, and yet I will not judge them either, not yet anyway, for they could change later on in life, or on their deathbed in a hospital, yet all too many of you think you can judge them, how sad, and you do not even see that it is you who are sinning by doing such...?

The narrow road is much more narrow than you think...

And a great, great deal of it has to do with how you judge...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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The type of lawlessness I am talking about is those who go on intentionally, deliberately sinning without conscience or care, laughing it up all the way, and yet I will not judge them either, not yet anyway, for they could change later on in life, or on their deathbed in a hospital, yet all too many of you think you can judge them, how sad, and you do not even see that it is you who are sinning by doing such...?

The narrow road is much more narrow than you think...

And a great, great deal of it has to do with how you judge...

God Bless!
I'm trying to be and stay on that narrow road, (and every single time I get on here I feel as if I have somehow gone off of it)...? Anyway, I'm trying to be and stay on that narrow road, and I'm very aware that a great deal of it has to with how I judge and am judging....

Sad that many of you are not or do not...

Do not see it, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Would it be a sin for me to just walk away from it all and let the world and the people in it just go their way...? I mean just look at what most of them are into and are caught up in...? I hope most of them will be declared innocent in the end... They are like a person looking into a mirror, then walking away and completely forgetting their appearance... And my words mean nothing and are probably all in vain and just might be the ultimate vanity in the end...

I feel like just retiring, and giving people a broken smile when they talk to me, but not letting them see that it is a broken smile of course...

I could just walk away and spend the rest of my days with the Lord here, while I am here...?

But something in me, that feels sinful sometimes, just prevents me from doing that sometimes though...?

But just spending the rest of my time with the Lord and forgetting the world does have it's appeal...?

Would that be a sin...?

I don't know if they can be saved...? or at least if they can be, it will not be because of me or anything I have to say...?

I grow tired of this endless fighting...

I sit on a fence, and on one side is the Lord and spending time with the Lord, and on the other is the world and the people in it...

I guess you could say I'm "torn"...

I feel like I have choice set before me, a choice many just don't have or get to make, which is why I wonder if they can even be saved, most don't have or ever get this choice to make, most have no choice but to be and stay caught up in the ways of the world...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Kris Jordan

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I don't mean to sound harsh or patronizing, but I want to alert you to a common doctrine of demons that Satan has contaminated the church with. It may sound like truth, but just as antifreeze tastes sweet, it can kill you just the same. Scripture says we are forgiven of our PAST sins (old sins). 2 Peter 1:9 Show me a scripture where our present and future sins are automatically taken away as we commit them. What you believe is a doctrine that is commonly taught in a lot of lost churches, and is not truth.

Paul did not believe he was still a sinner, but that when Jesus saved him, at that time he was the worst sinner of all the other apostles, as he had been guilty of persecuting the church and killing Christians. Look at 1 John 3:9 and tell me that Paul and John were the chief of sinners. You are parroting false doctrines, and have "likes" to your post, so you are not alone in being blind to the truth, and it is not really your fault unless you turn around and start teaching these lies. These doctrines are for itching ears - "its okay to be a sinner because everybody is." But you really need to search the scriptures for yourself and drop all this denominational garbage. Another belief along the same lines is that we will always be sinners. In that case, there are no Christians, and Jesus died in vain. 1 John 3:5 says "Jesus was manifested to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin." That doesn't mean our sins are not imputed to us as this unholy type of denomination teaches, but that He gives us His Spirit to empower us to not sin, but those without the power of the Spirit do not belong to Christ at all. John 8:34-36 Jesus tells us those who sin are a slave to sin and will not heaven will not be their home. Jesus makes His own children of God and those He makes free (of sin) are free indeed.

Only when you have experienced the freedom from the desire to sin that the Holy Spirit gives us do you ever come into the experiential knowledge of who we are meant to be in Christ. And when you know who you are and the authority you have, you can command healing, cast out demons, and even experience supernatural protection (the meaning of the idiom behind serpents and poison.)

Desiring to sin and sinning itself are two different things. As believers, we do not desire to sin. We desire to honor and obey Jesus. But the truth is, we all still sin - including you. To believe otherwise is a sign of spiritual immaturity at best and at worst, its a grave distortion of God's truth.

John tells believers in 1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

In addition, he also tells believers in 1 John 1:5-7, "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Believers have been set free from the power of sin because we have been given the Holy Spirit to live inside of us Who helps us to not sin and takes away our desire for it. But that doesn't mean we have been made sinless or never sin again. Positionally-speaking, we are sinless before God because we have been washed in the blood of Jesus and all our sins have been cleansed (1 John 1:7). Practically-speaking, we all still sin, knowingly or unknowingly (1 John 1:8-10).

Hope that helps :)
 
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Kris Jordan

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Would it be a sin for me to just walk away from it all and let the world and the people in it just go their way...? I mean just look at what most of them are into and are caught up in...? I hope most of them will be declared innocent in the end... They are like a person looking into a mirror, then walking away and completely forgetting their appearance... And my words mean nothing and are probably all in vain and just might be the ultimate vanity in the end...

I feel like just retiring, and giving people a broken smile when they talk to me, but not letting them see that it is a broken smile of course...

I could just walk away and spend the rest of my days with the Lord here, while I am here...?

But something in me, that feels sinful sometimes, just prevents me from doing that sometimes though...?

But just spending the rest of my time with the Lord and forgetting the world does have it's appeal...?

Would that be a sin...?

I don't know if they can be saved...? or at least if they can be, it will not be because of me or anything I have to say...?

I grow tired of this endless fighting...

I sit on a fence, and on one side is the Lord and spending time with the Lord, and on the other is the world and the people in it...

I guess you could say I'm "torn"...

I feel like I have choice set before me, a choice many just don't have or get to make, which is why I wonder if they can even be saved, most don't have or ever get this choice to make, most have no choice but to be and stay caught up in the ways of the world...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

Hi Neogaia777,

I can tell you are very weary, but I really want to encourage you with something: It is not your job to get people saved or change their lives or hearts. It is only your job to share the gospel with them and minister to them as the Lord leads you. The rest is up to Him and them.

The bible says in Galatians 6:9-10, "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith."

Keep pressing on and leave the results up to God. :)
 
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Kris Jordan

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Some Christians believe their sins are already forgiven even before they repent or followed with half-hearted repentance--when they can find the time.

The result being that some Christians stumble in not being able to overcome what they would admit is unhealthy behavior. The proverbial question seems to be is sinful behavior both evil wickedness as well as a bad (unhealthy) habit? For example what about obesity from over-indulging? Is gluttony a sin of evil wicked iniquity or just an unhealthy habit?

Hi AbbaLove,

I think it's easy to overanalyze sin - so for me, I don't try to categorize it. I just understand it as anything that misses the mark (or falls short) of God's perfect standard of holiness. When we understand it in those terms, we understand how much we all sin in our thoughts, actions, motivations, works, attitudes, etc., even when we're not trying to. We need God's grace just as much today as when we first believed because only He is perfect and we are not, even on our best day in Christ. That is never an excuse or license to sin, but its just the reality of what it is.

That's why Paul said in Romans 7:21-25,

  • "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
 
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CharismaticLady

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Desiring to sin and sinning itself are two different things. As believers, we do not desire to sin. We desire to honor and obey Jesus. But the truth is, we all still sin - including you. To believe otherwise is a sign of spiritual immaturity at best and at worst, its a grave distortion of God's truth.

John tells believers in 1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

In addition, he also tells believers in 1 John 1:5-7, "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Believers have been set free from the power of sin because we have been given the Holy Spirit to live inside of us Who helps us to not sin and takes away our desire for it. But that doesn't mean we have been made sinless or never sin again. Positionally-speaking, we are sinless before God because we have been washed in the blood of Jesus and all our sins have been cleansed (1 John 1:7). Practically-speaking, we all still sin, knowingly or unknowingly (1 John 1:8-10).

Hope that helps :)

This is the basis for the false doctrine; not understanding John's message. John is speaking in contrasts of thoughts, a Semitic writing style, which also uses first person "we." Remember all the apostles were Hebrew. Semitic is Hebrew. He is contrasting light vs. darkness. You are believing in the verses for darkness for yourself, a gross error, and contradicts chapter 3 completely. (BTW Paul does the same thing by contrasting Romans 7 and 8, which I see in your post to AbbaLove you believe chapter 7 is to Christians, no, it it a contrast of Old Testament LAW vs. our sin nature. And chapter 8 contrasts that with the SPIRIT vs. the previous law of sin and death.)

Verse 5 - God is light.
Verse 6 - walking in darkness
Verse 7 - walking in the light
Verse 8 - an unbeliever saying they have no sin
Verse 9 - how to become cleansed of ALL SIN
Verse 10 an unbeliever saying they have never sinned.

Notice John contrasts every other verse, even separating verse 8 and 10 which almost say the same thing. A Greek would have written them in two paragraphs with 5, 7, and 9 in one, and 6, 8, and 10 in the second. This is our mindset, but we need to understand how a Jew writes. Now lets look at chapter 3. (Remember verse numbering was added by man centuries later.)

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.


13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?


18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.



24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


By the way, I want to show you the truth of your doctrine of Paul was still the chief of sinners, another lie of the devil.

1 Timothy 1:
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. (formerly) 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

This is the same Paul who wrote Romans 6:What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
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Neogaia777

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Would it be a sin for me to just walk away from it all and let the world and the people in it just go their way...? I mean just look at what most of them are into and are caught up in...? I hope most of them will be declared innocent in the end... They are like a person looking into a mirror, then walking away and completely forgetting their appearance... And my words mean nothing and are probably all in vain and just might be the ultimate vanity in the end...

I feel like just retiring, and giving people a broken smile when they talk to me, but not letting them see that it is a broken smile of course...

I could just walk away and spend the rest of my days with the Lord here, while I am here...?

But something in me, that feels sinful sometimes, just prevents me from doing that sometimes though...?

But just spending the rest of my time with the Lord and forgetting the world does have it's appeal...?

Would that be a sin...?

I don't know if they can be saved...? or at least if they can be, it will not be because of me or anything I have to say...?

I grow tired of this endless fighting...

I sit on a fence, and on one side is the Lord and spending time with the Lord, and on the other is the world and the people in it...

I guess you could say I'm "torn"...

I feel like I have choice set before me, a choice many just don't have or get to make, which is why I wonder if they can even be saved, most don't have or ever get this choice to make, most have no choice but to be and stay caught up in the ways of the world...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
Look, I'm getting very tired of trying to prove that we are all a part of, and are all subject to, or are all still bound to the same kind of "human condition" right now... Because that's not my primary purpose or the main reason I am here, but it seems to be what I am always having to do a lot here (first) lately...

My primary reason and purpose for being here is to try and "change it", but necessitates fighting and/or confronting "evil" in all it's forms, which would, I guess, include the former, but the more and most important part is the latter...

Right now it seems that in order to eliminate evil, we might or would almost have to change and forsake almost everything about us that is uniquely "human"...

I need help, I can't do this, or figure this out all alone or all by myself, or do this all by myself... And I'm sick of wrestling with people who wish to deny that they are a part of it, that's not the main reason I am here...

God Bless!
 
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CharismaticLady

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Hello. Sure. The word Jesus used was not sin, but actually lawlessness. Lawlessness in Greek is anomia which means against the law. But the Greek word for sin is hamartia which means missing the mark or to error. Whereas anomia is more deliberate being against the law. Hamartia, on the other hand, can be committed unintentionally or out of ignorance.

I believe that 1 John 3:4 is lawlessness, against the law. It is not unintentional, but completely intentional and rebellion - of the devil.
 
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Neogaia777

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Look, I'm getting very tired of trying to prove that we are all a part of, and are all subject to, or are all still bound to the same kind of "human condition" right now... Because that's not my primary purpose or the main reason I am here, but it seems to be what I am always having to do a lot here (first) lately...

My primary reason and purpose for being here is to try and "change it", but necessitates fighting and/or confronting "evil" in all it's forms, which would, I guess, include the former, but the more and most important part is the latter...

Right now it seems that in order to eliminate evil, we might or would almost have to change and forsake almost everything about us that is uniquely "human"...

I need help, I can't do this, or figure this out all alone or all by myself, or do this all by myself... And I'm sick of wrestling with people who wish to deny that they are a part of it, that's not the main reason I am here...

God Bless!
The ones who want to deny that they are a part of it are liars, and the Bible says so, and are so very irritatingly hypocritical and are guilty of some of the worst kinds of sin or evil, which is why I fight them, but that is not my primary reason or purpose for being here...

And I would very much like to get past it, that, or this at some point...

God Bless!
 
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CharismaticLady

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But...? (warning, people who start out with a statement like this are about to sin, just saying)...

But, but you are, and you might be sinning as well... Your judging, and judging presumptuously, and trying to play God in setting the standard for everyone...

See this thread: How can you think you can judge or play God and set the standard for everyone...?

Your sinning, even right now, yet you don't see it, what a shame...

I don't think you, or those like you, really truly fully realize just how narrow the narrow road really is...?

I don't mean to pick on you specifically @CharismaticLady, for there are many others like you I could pick on, but I had to pick somebody, so, please don't take it personally, K...?

God Bless!

Paul sounds harsh, just sayin. It was to bring them to repentance.
 
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Neogaia777

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Lawlessness? No, do you?

Trespasses? Yes, but as long as I walk in the Spirit, they are automatically cleanses, 1 John 1:7
There are two different Greek words used for "lawlessness" and you are guilty of one of them.

God Bless!
 
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Kaon

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What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

It cannot be people who do not keep all of the OT Law perfectly, cause none of us do perfectly...?

And it cannot be the people that think they do, because they are wrong and are deceiving themselves and their own minds...?

So what is it...? And who are they...?

Discuss...?

Comments...?

Scripture refers to the "mystery of lawlessness" and the lawless one or ones being revealed, so, what is it and who are they...?

God Bless!

Our job is to be obedient to the Most High God, and to love Him (in reverse order). Obedience is a consequence of love and trust just like in an earthly parent-child relationship.

Lawless people are those who do not try to obey the commandments of the Most High God (all/any), and those who make a case for disobedience.
 
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Neogaia777

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Paul sounds harsh, just sayin. It was to bring them to repentance.
To change the human condition? How do we do that? And Paul was still human and still sinned from time to time, as they all still did from time to time, just that some, like Paul, were just more honest about it than others.

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

Old Soul
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To change the human condition? How do we do that? And Paul was still human and still sinned from time to time, as they all still did from time to time, just that some, like Paul, were just more honest about it than others.

God Bless!
The human condition was never really healed, or fixed, it was just whitewashed or covered up...

And the full ugliness of it now, is coming out now more than ever...

And I would take a stand against it but I'm only one man, and am still "human" myself....

God Bless!
 
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