What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

Neogaia777 said:

So all sin and sinners are lawless ones...?

And if that's not the case, in all and every single case, could you elaborate or explain a bit maybe...?

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1 John 3:4[ Sin and the Child of God ] Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

sdowney717 said:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

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Yes, when you commit a sin, you are committing lawlessness because sin is one form of lawlessness, but not lawlessness itself. Again, these are two different Greek words.

Its like an apple. Yes an apple is one form of many different fruits, but it does not mean fruit by definition.

PJ76 said:

Yes, when you commit a sin, you are committing lawlessness because sin is one form of lawlessness, but not lawlessness itself. Again, these are two different Greek words.

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If you sin you commit lawlessness
Can you commit lawlessness, and if you can is it a sin?

Anything not from faith is sin. Not believing in Christ is a sin.
Lawlessness defined is a state of disorder due to a disregard of the law.

Romans 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

sdowney717 said:

Can you commit lawlessness, and if you can is it a sin?

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Yes, you can be against the law without committing a sin. Lawlessness in Greek means against the law. Sin in Greek means to fall short. Two different words.

PJ76 said:

Yes, you can be against the law without committing a sin.

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Being against the Law/Teaching/God’s instruction IS falling short.

Dave-W said:

Being against the Law/Teaching/God’s instruction IS falling short.

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That is a good point. I would agree.

ChicanaRose said:

I am wondering if it means a person who feels no remorse for sin, because we all struggle with sin.

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Not all Christians struggle with sin. That is a false doctrine. Jesus came to take away our sin, and in His there is no sin. That is because those in Christ have been born again and their struggles are replaced with victory.

To experience the truth of the power of Jesus, one must acknowledge and repent of their weakness to sin - the sin nature. Jesus then fills you with His powerful Spirit and the divine nature. No more struggle, for whom Jesus frees (from sin) is free indeed. John 8:34-36

Another name for "sin" is iniquity ...

Perhaps, the most prevalent example of "sin" was when Israel worshipped other gods than the LORD GOD of Israel (e.g. setting up idols in high places as well as in their hearts)

Neogaia777 said:

Then were all lawless and all doomed.

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Hi Neogaia777,

Yes and no.

• Yes - we are all "lawless" and destined for hell because of our sin (= The Bad News).
• No - If we are trusting Jesus for our forgiveness and salvation which He provided for on the cross when He shed His blood for our redemption, then we are forgiven, saved and heaven bound (= The Good News of the gospel).

There can't be good news without the bad news. Otherwise, it wouldn't be good news! Hope that helps clarify things.

Kris Jordan said:

Hi Neogaia777,

Yes and no.

• Yes - we are all "lawless" and destined for hell because of our sin (= The Bad News).
• No - If we are trusting Jesus for our forgiveness and salvation which He provided for on the cross when He shed His blood for our redemption, then we are forgiven, saved and heaven bound (= The Good News of the gospel).

There can't be good news without the bad news. Otherwise, it wouldn't be good news! Hope that helps clarify things.

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What about present and future sins for a Christian?

I have always thought the lawless one was Satan and those that are lawless are those that break the law.
Hi broNeo
Bless your sweet heart

Well, since Christ is the fulfilment of the Law, then the lawless are just those that reject Christ and his teachings.

CharismaticLady said:

What about present and future sins for a Christian?

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Hi CharismaticLady,

A genuine believer's sins are forgiven - past, present, and future. However, when we sin as believers, there is a break in our fellowship/intimacy with Jesus that occurs until we repent (1 John 1:9-10), but the relationship is not severed or forsaken by God because our salvation is not based on our performance but on faith in Jesus for what He did for us on the cross. Much like when we argue with our spouse, our relationship is affected and our fellowship with each other is interrupted, but we're not divorced just because we've had a spat. When the spat ends and there is repentance, our fellowship and intimacy within the intact marriage relationship are restored. The same is true with Jesus.

On the flip side, however, this truth of our forgiveness is not a license to sin. For those who have been genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit resides within them to help them overcome sin and to not desire sin. It is a process of growth and maturity in our faith. So for those who sin and have no conviction about it or think it's "okay," then I strongly question their salvation. One of the evidences that we have been saved is our disdain for sin or our uncomfortableness in it.

It's funny though when I was first saved 32+ years ago, I really didn't think I sinned anymore. I was so blinded to my own self-righteousness and pride! But as Jesus matured me and grew me up in Him through His Word, I realized how much I actually sinned without even realizing it. The sins that are obvious are easy to detect but the sins of the heart are far more deceptive and hidden. I now understand why the Apostle Paul started out describing himself as the "least of the Apostles," but as he grew and matured, he described himself as "less than the least of all the saints," and at the end of his life, he saw himself for what he really was - the Chief of Sinners! That doesn't mean Paul sinned more as he got older -- it just means that, as he grew in his faith, he realized how much of a sinner he still really was and how much he needed the blood of Jesus even then!

The same is true of all of us when we understand how much we miss the mark of God's "perfect holiness" in word, thought, action, motive, deed, etc. We should be getting more humble as we age in Christ because we're realizing how much we still need his grace and mercy every single day!

Kris Jordan said:

Hi CharismaticLady,

A genuine believer's sins are forgiven - past, present, and future. However, when we sin as believers, there is a break in our fellowship/intimacy with Jesus that occurs until we repent (1 John 1:9-10), but the relationship is not severed or forsaken by God because our salvation is not based on our performance but on faith in Jesus for what He did for us on the cross. Much like when we argue with our spouse, our relationship is affected and our fellowship with each other is interrupted, but we're not divorced just because we've had a spat. When the spat ends and there is repentance, our fellowship and intimacy within the intact marriage relationship are restored. The same is true with Jesus.

On the flip side, however, this truth of our forgiveness is not a license to sin. For those who have been genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit resides within them to help them overcome sin and to not desire sin. It is a process of growth and maturity in our faith. So for those who sin and have no conviction about it or think it's "okay," then I strongly question their salvation. One of the evidences that we have been saved is our disdain for sin or our uncomfortableness in it.

It's funny though when I was first saved 32+ years ago, I really didn't think I sinned anymore. I was so blinded to my own self-righteousness and pride! But as Jesus matured me and grew me up in Him through His Word, I realized how much I actually sinned without even realizing it. The sins that are obvious are easy to detect but the sins of the heart are far more deceptive and hidden. I now understand why the Apostle Paul started out describing himself as the "least of the Apostles," but as he grew and matured, he described himself as "less than the least of all the saints," and at the end of his life, he saw himself for what he really was - the Chief of Sinners! That doesn't mean Paul sinned more as he got older -- it just means that, as he grew in his faith, he realized how much of a sinner he still really was and how much he needed the blood of Jesus even then!

The same is true of all of us when we understand how much we miss the mark of God's "perfect holiness" in word, thought, action, motive, deed, etc. We should be getting more humble as we age in Christ because we're realizing how much we still need his grace and mercy every single day!

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Yes, since if you do something not from faith, then it is sin. Romans 14:23
If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.

And there is this too, if Christians were free from the effects of the flesh, then why would the flesh be lusting against the Spirit of God, and God's Spirit against the flesh, so that what??
so that you do not do the things that you wish to do.
Thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Christ.

Galatians 5
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Neogaia777 said:

What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

It cannot be people who do not keep all of the OT Law perfectly, cause none of us do perfectly...?

And it cannot be the people that think they do, because they are wrong and are deceiving themselves and their own minds...?

So what is it...? And who are they...?

Discuss...?

Comments...?

Scripture refers to the "mystery of lawlessness" and the lawless one or ones being revealed, so, what is it and who are they...?

God Bless!

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Lawlessness are crimes against God and humanity. We all know who some of them are and God knows who they all are.
Blessings

Some Christians believe their sins are already forgiven even before they repent or followed with half-hearted repentance--when they can find the time.

The result being that some Christians stumble in not being able to overcome what they would admit is unhealthy behavior. The proverbial question seems to be is sinful behavior both evil wickedness as well as a bad (unhealthy) habit? For example what about obesity from over-indulging? Is gluttony a sin of evil wicked iniquity or just an unhealthy habit?

Kris Jordan said:

Hi CharismaticLady,

A genuine believer's sins are forgiven - past, present, and future. However, when we sin as believers, there is a break in our fellowship/intimacy with Jesus that occurs until we repent (1 John 1:9-10), but the relationship is not severed or forsaken by God because our salvation is not based on our performance but on faith in Jesus for what He did for us on the cross. Much like when we argue with our spouse, our relationship is affected and our fellowship with each other is interrupted, but we're not divorced just because we've had a spat. When the spat ends and there is repentance, our fellowship and intimacy within the intact marriage relationship are restored. The same is true with Jesus.

On the flip side, however, this truth of our forgiveness is not a license to sin. For those who have been genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit resides within them to help them overcome sin and to not desire sin. It is a process of growth and maturity in our faith. So for those who sin and have no conviction about it or think it's "okay," then I strongly question their salvation. One of the evidences that we have been saved is our disdain for sin or our uncomfortableness in it.

It's funny though when I was first saved 32+ years ago, I really didn't think I sinned anymore. I was so blinded to my own self-righteousness and pride! But as Jesus matured me and grew me up in Him through His Word, I realized how much I actually sinned without even realizing it. The sins that are obvious are easy to detect but the sins of the heart are far more deceptive and hidden. I now understand why the Apostle Paul started out describing himself as the "least of the Apostles," but as he grew and matured, he described himself as "less than the least of all the saints," and at the end of his life, he saw himself for what he really was - the Chief of Sinners! That doesn't mean Paul sinned more as he got older -- it just means that, as he grew in his faith, he realized how much of a sinner he still really was and how much he needed the blood of Jesus even then!

The same is true of all of us when we understand how much we miss the mark of God's "perfect holiness" in word, thought, action, motive, deed, etc. We should be getting more humble as we age in Christ because we're realizing how much we still need his grace and mercy every single day!

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I don't mean to sound harsh or patronizing, but I want to alert you to a common doctrine of demons that Satan has contaminated the church with. It may sound like truth, but just as antifreeze tastes sweet, it can kill you just the same. Scripture says we are forgiven of our PAST sins (old sins). 2 Peter 1:9 Show me a scripture where our present and future sins are automatically taken away as we commit them. What you believe is a doctrine that is commonly taught in a lot of lost churches, and is not truth.

Paul did not believe he was still a sinner, but that when Jesus saved him, at that time he was the worst sinner of all the other apostles, as he had been guilty of persecuting the church and killing Christians. Look at 1 John 3:9 and tell me that Paul and John were the chief of sinners. You are parroting false doctrines, and have "likes" to your post, so you are not alone in being blind to the truth, and it is not really your fault unless you turn around and start teaching these lies. These doctrines are for itching ears - "its okay to be a sinner because everybody is." But you really need to search the scriptures for yourself and drop all this denominational garbage. Another belief along the same lines is that we will always be sinners. In that case, there are no Christians, and Jesus died in vain. 1 John 3:5 says "Jesus was manifested to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin." That doesn't mean our sins are not imputed to us as this unholy type of denomination teaches, but that He gives us His Spirit to empower us to not sin, but those without the power of the Spirit do not belong to Christ at all. John 8:34-36 Jesus tells us those who sin are a slave to sin and will not heaven will not be their home. Jesus makes His own children of God and those He makes free (of sin) are free indeed.

Only when you have experienced the freedom from the desire to sin that the Holy Spirit gives us do you ever come into the experiential knowledge of who we are meant to be in Christ. And when you know who you are and the authority you have, you can command healing, cast out demons, and even experience supernatural protection (the meaning of the idiom behind serpents and poison.)

PJ76 said:

Yes, when you commit a sin, you are committing lawlessness because sin is one form of lawlessness, but not lawlessness itself. Again, these are two different Greek words.

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Explain what Greek words, and the English equivalent and the definition, please. I like to learn these things.

Personally, I see lawlessness as one type of sin, a sin unto death. I do not see two types of lawlessness, but two types of sin. The other sin being unintentional trespasses - sins NOT unto death, and therefore not lawlessness. 1 John 5:16-17

CharismaticLady said:

Explain what Greek words, and the English equivalent and the definition, please. I like to learn these things.

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Hello. Sure. The word Jesus used was not sin, but actually lawlessness. Lawlessness in Greek is anomia which means against the law. But the Greek word for sin is hamartia which means missing the mark or to error. Whereas anomia is more deliberate being against the law. Hamartia, on the other hand, can be committed unintentionally or out of ignorance.