Why Jesus Said that Bread was His Body

childeye 2 said:

Now why do you think I would care if someone says the Christ is not talking about his crucifixion?

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Because your stated interpretation of Christ's words and the sacrament is mistaken. That is why you appear to attach so much importance to his crucifixion - to the exclusion of his incarnation, life, ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and reign. But that was covered - albeit obliquely - in my previous reply to you.

GingerBeer said:

Is this humour?

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NO, why would you ask, it takes place every Sunday, and has for at least 100 yrs.
People go to confession on Friday, and Saturday, and on Sunday they only get the Bread in Communion, and the Priest drinks the wine, do they only receive half of what they should be getting in Communion?

JIMINZ said:

NO, why would you ask, it takes place every Sunday, and has for at least 100 yrs.
People go to confession on Friday, and Saturday, and on Sunday they only get the Bread in Communion, and the Priest drinks the wine, do they only receive half of what they should be getting in Communion?

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My question is not about the alleged event but about what you wrote concerning it.

GingerBeer said:

My question is not about the alleged event but about what you wrote concerning it.

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I fully understand what you were asking, NO, there isn't anything humorous about people only being able to receive the Bread and not the Wine when they go on Sunday to receive Communion, ....Do you?

Now that you understand, are you or are you not able to answer a straight forward question.

If the Eucharist as you call it is the Body and Blood of Christ, which consists of two separate parts, both Bread, and Wine if a person only receives the Bread during Communion and the do not receive any Wing have they truly received Communion at all?

Why is the Priest the only one allowed to drink the Wine?

Childeye 2 said: Now why do you think I would care if someone says the Christ is not talking about his crucifixion?

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GingerBeer said:

Because your stated interpretation of Christ's words and the sacrament is mistaken.

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Respectfully, that is incorrect. The reason I care if someone says the Christ is not talking about the crucifixion, is because I believe his flesh and blood is what was sacrificed to give us Life. So when he says this is my body which is given for you and this is my blood shed for you, the sentiment means to me this is my Love for you shown on the cross.

That is why you appear to attach so much importance to his crucifixion - to the exclusion of his incarnation, life, ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and reign. But that was covered - albeit obliquely - in my previous reply to you.

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He said do this in memory of me on the night before he will be killed. I don't see how the bread is not a reminder of his sacrifice for us.

childeye 2 said:

He said do this in memory of me on the night before he will be killed. I don't see how the bread is not a reminder of his sacrifice for us.

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"Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." suggests remembering the man, Jesus Christ, who the disciples knew and the man who the readers of the gospels and Paul's first letter to the Corinthians know by means of the testimony of the apostles and others and the work of the Holy Spirit in their minds, hearts, and life. It is not specific to the crucifixion, death, entombment of Christ.

JIMINZ said:

Why is the Priest the only one allowed to drink the Wine?

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Why do you ask me? I do not know if what you claim is factual or not.

GingerBeer said:

Why do you ask me? I do not know if what you claim is factual or not.

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You keep making bold statement as though everything you say is pure fact, I took it for granted the way you sound your Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran or on that order so you would know about such things as Priests and the Mass owing to the fact you use all of the same jargon used in those Denominations.

But you say you are ignorant, I am forced to accept what you say.

JIMINZ said:

You keep making bold statement as though everything you say is pure fact, I took it for granted the way you sound your Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran or on that order so you would know about such things as Priests and the Mass owing to the fact you use all of the same jargon used in those Denominations.

But you say you are ignorant, I am forced to accept what you say.

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The Catholics I know receive wine in their church. I think Lutherans do too. Anglicans probably do too. I think Orthodox folk receive a sop held on a gold spoon and dropped into their open mouth by the priest so - as far as I am aware - they all receive wine and bread. But you claim that someone does not and that some priest drinks it all. Such was the statement made in the post that looked like it might be a bad joke to me.

GingerBeer said:

"Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." suggests remembering the man, Jesus Christ, who the disciples knew and the man who the readers of the gospels and Paul's first letter to the Corinthians know by means of the testimony of the apostles and others and the work of the Holy Spirit in their minds, hearts, and life. It is not specific to the crucifixion, death, entombment of Christ.

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Paul said …25In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.…

I notice where he says in verse 26 the word "for" in "for as often". This necessarily ties it to the prior verse explaining why we do it in remembrance of him. So together the sentiment is, we do this in remembrance of him because it shows his death. His death was by crucifixion the next day to pay for our sins.

So when I partake in remembrance of him as instructed to do, I'm thinking he gave his flesh and blood as a sacrifice for us. And I don't think it's correct to teach that Jesus is not talking about his sacrifice for us when he says this is my body and this is my blood given for you, particularly when it implies he did this so I can be healed of sinfulness and so my sins may be covered.

Finally, I believe there is judgment at the cup of Christ, as shown in verse 27. Why would we be judged if we are guilty or not of his body and blood if it isn't about his death for us that we are remembering?

childeye 2 said:

Finally, I believe

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I do not want to prolong a conversation that has been into the matter of the Lord's supper sufficiently already. You believe and that is good. That is all I want to say.

GingerBeer said:

I do not want to prolong a conversation that has been into the matter of the Lord's supper sufficiently already. You believe and that is good. That is all I want to say.

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Indeed that is all there is to say. Well I appreciate the time you spent with me. You helped me reflect on the meaning of Christ's words. Thank you for that. Please be at peace, and I pray in Jesus' Name that God be with you and yours in all things and in all ways.

Dennis12 said:

I appreciate the effort you put into your reply. However, you don't understand the point I am marking. Your efforts might be better-spent understanding what it is you think you are rebutting before you respond. If you make little effort to understand others can you expect them to believe that you really understand what Jesus was talking about?

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In response to another Forum participant who was supporting a "bread and wine as symbols" point of view you wrote:

Dennis12 said:

don't have any problem with this . . . except Jesus used the word "is". He didn't use the word "like" which he could have.

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That is what I responded to. I don't know how else it could be taken when you are commenting upon two words. I thought your response was clear so I responded. If it hadn't appeared clear to me, I would have asked questions.

I appreciate your advice but you seem to assume some ill-will on my part. To make the judgements you've made about me based on one post responding to 2 sentences in context is uncharitable. I would never do that. If I felt a response was misguided or misinformed I would try to clarify my argument.

There's enough vitriol flying around on what is supposed to be a "Christian Forum" that I recommend being extra kind and forbearing, especially if you believe there has been some confusion.

Peace be with you.

GingerBeer said:

I am confused by the separation between natural bread and spiritual bread mentioned in your reply. Jesus said about the bread he broke and passed to the disciples "this is my body" what they were given by Jesus was called bread in the passage and Jesus said that is it his body. Maybe there's something you see that I do not but the text of the passage makes no mention of spiritual bread it just has normal bread that people eat. How that normal bread is Jesus' body is a mystery to me. Do I need to know how that bread is Jesus body? I have managed to be a Christian for more than forty years without ever knowing how the bread is Jesus body but nevertheless believing that Jesus was speaking the truth when he said that it is his body.

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Yes and also why Jesus wants us to eat his "body?" Is it something to do with being one with Jesus?

Sunshinee777 said:

Yes and also why Jesus wants us to eat his "body?" Is it something to do with being one with Jesus?

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1 Corinthians 10:17 - For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.

Jesus is the Bread of Life. Just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. John 6:35 - "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." As He was accustomed, Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says in John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

Eating and drinking is not literally with the mouth and the digestive organs of our bodies here, but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ unto salvation, as He makes it clear below:

John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood." The end result is the same. Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

Sunshinee777 said:

Yes and also why Jesus wants us to eat his "body?" Is it something to do with being one with Jesus?

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Yes, in the Eucharist we receive our Lord's flesh and blood, and as the Apostle says in 1 Corinthians 10 brings together the Church, Christ, and His Supper into a wonderful mystery: The Eucharist is in a sense the Sacrament that constitutes the Church as the Body of Christ; for here the body and blood of Christ is found in and under the bread and wine, and in which we are sharers of this, partakers of Him and His sacrifice, and are constituted as Christ's Body--we though many are nevertheless one bread and body by our receiving of the bread, which is the very flesh of our Lord.

So there is the Mystical Union of us and Christ together as His Body, the Church. This is profoundly on display in the Sacrament of the Altar.

-CryptoLutheran