Is Confession of Sin Necessary for Salvation?

Is confession of sin necessary for salvation?


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CharismaticLady

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What are the Old Testament verses that support this?

I’m not aware of them. Please share

I'll have to repeat the study. As for unintentional sins where there is a sacrifice, and then one who broke the Sabbath commandment and there was no sacrifice, just death, read Numbers 15:22-36.

Here is a start for you to study. It is Biblegateway, searching "stoned."

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: stoned
 
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ToBeLoved

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I'll have to repeat the study. As for unintentional sins where there is a sacrifice, and then one who broke the Sabbath commandment and there was no sacrifice, just death, read Numbers 15:22-36.

Here is a start for you to study. It is Biblegateway, searching "stoned."

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: stoned
I didn’t read breaking the Sabbath in those verses.

It was blasphemy against God saying He was not God.
 
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Danthemailman

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While I am more than capable of going back and forth with you until the end our lives on this issue or point here within this thread, I do not think it is needed. What I have said is enough to convince anyone who is honestly seeking the truth on this matter with God's Word.

So good day to you in the Lord today, dear sir;
And let's agree to disagree.
For I am confident that God's truth will prevail.
For I may plant seeds, and another may water, but it is GOD who gives the increase.
God's Word will not return void.

Please be well.

Sincerely,

~ J.
My sentiments exactly and the truth will prevail. God bless
 
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CharismaticLady

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I didn’t read breaking the Sabbath in those verses.

It was blasphemy against God saying He was not God.

How could you miss it? Did you read Numbers 15:22-36? Here are the verses about breaking the Sabbath:

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
 
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packermann

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An argument from silence. What silence? The Old Testament screams it.
You cannot scream a negative. The absence of sacrifices for violations of the Ten Commandments cannot not be screamed. Its just not there.

My statement should have been enough for anyone's interest in knowledge to dig it out for themselves. If you think this is just a debate, and not reasoning together, you found the wrong person to debate with. I've already done my digging. It is profitable for you to do your own.

So let me see that I understand this. I should read from Exodus to the last book of the Old Testament to dig out to find any references to any sacrifices of the people offering sacrifices for Ten Commandment violations?????

Even though this is not an official debate, this was still your argument. If you have no interest in digging this up to support your own argument then why should I?

I just wrote that even if there is no example of sacrifices for Ten Commandments violations, that proves nothing. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
 
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CharismaticLady

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@packermann

Sorry, your post wasn't programmed correctly, but I just want to say that the reason there was no sacrifices to cover the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments was because the law breakers were killed. I don't know what about that you don't understand.
 
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@packermann

Sorry, your post wasn't programmed correctly, but I just want to say that the reason there was no sacrifices to cover the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments was because the law breakers were killed. I don't know what about that you don't understand.

David was not killed even though he murdered and committed adultery.
The prophet Nathan said he would not die (physically die).
So there is an exceptional or an example made.
David was allowed to confess of his sins to be forgiven of breaking of these commandments.

Even Jesus stopped those who wanted to stone the woman caught in the act of adultery. This was not that the woman was to continue in sin. She was told to "sin no more." But she now had mercy that was not normally given in the Old Testament. You think things are the same like in the Old Testament. They are not. We can see Jesus made the change with the woman caught in the act of adultery. There is forgiveness now in such a way that did not exist like in the Old Testament.

But even in the Old Testament, there were many times God called His people back to repentance (seeking forgiveness with Him by way of prayer) that leads to the fruits of repentance (forsaking sin, and in living holy) because they worshiped other gods or idols. God should have wiped out Israel for their constant disloyalty for worshiping other gods over the many years, but He didn't do that. They went to the hands of other enemies until they cried out to God to save them again.

Again, my point here is not that we shouldn't have a high regard for God's laws or that a believer cannot walk uprightly. I believe the saints can overcome grievous sin in this life and much much more. I believe God's commands (The NT Commands should be magnified in light of God's grace through faith). The point I want to make is that if a believer commits the sin of lying, he has an opportunity to seek forgiveness of that sin with the Lord Jesus Christ and to be forgiven of it and even forever be cleansed of it for good (Whereby they will never do such a thing again). Sometimes there are certain believers who struggle with particular sins. This is what 1 John 5:16-17 is all about. The faithful believers are praying for the believer who is struggling with a sin that they are confessing. They are to pray so as to give that person victory or life over the sin that they are struggling with.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I'll have to repeat the study. As for unintentional sins where there is a sacrifice, and then one who broke the Sabbath commandment and there was no sacrifice, just death, read Numbers 15:22-36.

Here is a start for you to study. It is Biblegateway, searching "stoned."

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: stoned
It also says there was one law and consequences for the people of Israel and another for visitors or those just entering the community
 
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ToBeLoved

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David was not killed even though he murdered and committed adultery.
The prophet Nathan said he would not die (physically die).
So there is an exceptional or an example made.
David was allowed to confess of his sins to be forgiven of breaking of these commandments.

Even Jesus stopped those who wanted to stone the woman caught in the act of adultery. This was not that the woman was to continue in sin. She was told to "sin no more." But she now had mercy that was not normally given in the Old Testament. You think things are the same like in the Old Testament. They are not. We can see Jesus made the change with the woman caught in the act of adultery. There is forgiveness now in such a way that did not exist like in the Old Testament.

But even in the Old Testament, there were many times God called His people back to repentance (seeking forgiveness with Him by way of prayer) that leads to the fruits of repentance (forsaking sin, and in living holy) because they worshiped other gods or idols. God should have wiped out Israel for their constant disloyalty for worshiping other gods over the many years, but He didn't do that. They went to the hands of other enemies until they cried out to God to save them again.

Again, my point here is not that we shouldn't have a high regard for God's laws or that a believer cannot walk uprightly. I believe the saints can overcome grievous sin in this life and much much more. I believe God's commands (The NT Commands should be magnified in light of God's grace through faith). The point I want to make is that if a believer commits the sin of lying, he has an opportunity to seek forgiveness of that sin with the Lord Jesus Christ and to be forgiven of it and even forever be cleansed of it for good (Whereby they will never do such a thing again). Sometimes there are certain believers who struggle with particular sins. This is what 1 John 5:16-17 is all about. The faithful believers are praying for the believer who is struggling with a sin that they are confessing. They are to pray so as to give that person victory or life over the sin that they are struggling with.
There were also many prophets who warned Israel of consequences before they sinned, hoping they would change course
 
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CharismaticLady

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You think things are the same like in the Old Testament.

No! They had to deal with the sin nature in them. We don't. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if anyone doesn't have the Spirit of Christ, even if they have gone to church all their lives and know the laws of God, they do not belong to Christ.

You were responding to what I said about what our schoolmaster said about the Old Testament sacrifices. We can learn a lot about God in what He covered with sacrifices, but especially what He DOESN'T. That point seemed to drift on by you unnoticed, let alone understood. So what does the fact of no sacrifices could be offered for willful sins of lawlessness, but there were sacrifices for unintentional sins tell you about a Christian's life?
 
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CharismaticLady

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It also says there was one law and consequences for the people of Israel and another for visitors or those just entering the community

I don't recall that. Where? I just remember words like these:

Exodus 20: 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
 
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No! They had to deal with the sin nature in them. We don't. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if anyone doesn't have the Spirit of Christ, even if they have gone to church all their lives and know the laws of God, they do not belong to Christ.

You were responding to what I said about what our schoolmaster said about the Old Testament sacrifices. We can learn a lot about God in what He covered with sacrifices, but especially what He DOESN'T. That point seemed to drift on by you unnoticed, let alone understood. So what does the fact of no sacrifices could be offered for willful sins of lawlessness, but there were sacrifices for unintentional sins tell you about a Christian's life?

But John the Baptist had the Spirit since birth and he was under the Old Covenant.

David said that he hid God’s Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (Psalms 119:11).

David asked for a right spirit within him, and to create a clean heart within him. He asked not take his Holy Spirit from Him (See Psalms 51:10-11).

I don’t see how these things can be true if things are as you say.
 
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CharismaticLady

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But John the Baptist had the Spirit since birth and he was under the Old Covenant.

David said that he hid God’s Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (Psalms 119:11).

David asked for a right spirit within him, and to create a clean heart within him. He asked not take his Holy Spirit from Him (See Psalms 51:10-11).

I don’t see how these things can be true if things are as you say.

Interpret what you see me saying.

Yes, John the Baptist had the Spirit since birth and his message was repentance to make the path straight to Christ. John was a prophet. All prophets in the OT had the Spirit. Kings were anointed by prophets to receive the Spirit.
 
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Faith Firestone

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If one doesn't believe they are a sinner or that they need to confess their Sins (other than for initial salvation and acceptance of Christ), then why would they need a Savior at all? What good is a Savior to them? What good is our relationship with Christ if we are not honest and instead try to hide our Sins? (as if that is even possible). When you've sinned against your parent and they forgave you did you use that initial forgiveness to excuse other future sins against them? Or did you go up to your parent every time you sinned against them, confess and ask for forgiveness? This may be a simplistic analogy, nevertheless to me it makes sense.
I chose option 2:
Yes, 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9 says we need to continue to confess sin to be cleansed of sin.
 
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Interpret what you see me saying.

Yes, John the Baptist had the Spirit since birth and his message was repentance to make the path straight to Christ. John was a prophet. All prophets in the OT had the Spirit. Kings were anointed by prophets to receive the Spirit.

Isaac was born after the Spirit. It is why he was persecuted.

28 "Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now." (Galatians 4:28-29).
 
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CharismaticLady

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Isaac was born after the Spirit. It is why he was persecuted.

28 "Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now." (Galatians 4:28-29).

I don't know what I said for you to bring up Isaac. You seem to be saying Isaac had the Spirit. That is not what Galatians 4 is saying. If you are saying that Isaac represents the New Covenant of the Spirit. Then I agree. Or did you even know that. Actually, it doesn't appear you did. So you might as well know this too that Ishmael represented the Old Covenant of the Law.

So what else don't you agree with that you think I am saying?

Going to bed.
 
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Ing Bee

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I voted "Other", although am happy with the 3rd option.
Do a quick search of the word "confess" in the Bible software of your choice (I did a quick Bible Gateway search). There you will find the word defined in two basic ways in the New Testament passages.
  • One kind of confession is to confess that Jesus is Lord. This is something that only believers can do, empowered by the Holy Spirit (1 John 4:3, 15, etc.)
  • The second usage is the confessing of sin. Overwhelmingly, this is attributed to Christians. There is no instance where confession of sin is connected to salvation.
Similarly, the word "repent" is characterized as "turning toward" or having a "change of mind" about something or (as in the case of Jesus's lordship) someone. Repent should not be used as a synonym for "confess" since it is an internal, self-reflexive activity while confession (in both usages) is outward focused and public.
 
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packermann

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When you've sinned against your parent and they forgave you did you use that initial forgiveness to excuse other future sins against them? Or did you go up to your parent every time you sinned against them, confess and ask for forgiveness? This may be a simplistic analogy, nevertheless to me it makes sense.

I chose option 2:

Yes, 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9 says we need to continue to confess sin to be cleansed of sin.



Faith, you can go overboard in using the father-child analogy in our relationship with God. Analogy helps us to understand something. It should not be the basis, over what He has revealed to us, in determining how He treats us. For instance, no parent would want their child to die of cancer. If I had a child with cancer, I would do everything I can, spend any money I could, to heal my child of cancer. But even though God has the power to heal one of His children with cancer, in most cases He does not choose it.

Many people think God is like us, only bigger. But His ways are not our ways. So maybe I did not ask forgiveness and every time I sinned against them, confessed and asked for forgiveness. It does not reflect anything of what God demands of me. 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess…He will forgive”, strongly implying that if we do not confess then He will not forgive. That may seem harsh, but it also seems harsh for God to allow a little child to die of cancer.

This is to not deny the effects of the cross at all. It is only based on the merits of Christ on the cross. Confession is a way to apply the benefits of the cross. Evangelicals apply the benefits of the cross through faith or through receiving Christ into their hearts. We Catholics apply the benefits of Christ’s once-and-for-all death on the cross through baptism, through the holy sacrifice of the Mass, through receiving Christ in the Eucharist, and through the sacrament of Confession.
 
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packermann

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John 4:3, 15, etc.)
The second usage is the confessing of sin. Overwhelmingly, this is attributed to Christians. There is no instance where confession of sin is connected to salvation.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins...
1 John 1:9

Here we were see a cause and effect. We confess -> He will forgive. And everyone agrees that forgiveness is required for salvation.

Similarly, the word "repent" is characterized as "turning toward" or having a "change of mind" about something or (as in the case of Jesus's lordship) someone. Repent should not be used as a synonym for "confess" since it is an internal, self-reflexive activity while confession (in both usages) is outward focused and public.

The verb "to repent" is almost always in the present tense in Greek, which means continuous or repetitive. It is not a one-time act but must be repeated throughout your life. The only one-time-act is the act of Christ on the cross. But my appropriation of that one-time act of Christ must be repeated throughout my life. If and when I gravely sin, I must confess my sins and repent.

In fact, the Bible makes it clear that initial repentance that is not carried out afterwards does nothing to the soul. So making Jesus as your Lord today but not having Jesus as your Lord tomorrow will not save.

“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. “Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.”
Matt 21:28-30

Our Lord gave a parable of two sons. The second said "I will" but did not. It was only the first one who actually did the will of Father. If we initially say that Jesus is Lord but do not follow through, then Jesus is not our Lord.

He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was
made a minister.

Col 1:22, 23

We are only reconciled if indeed we continue.
 
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Oldmantook

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Once again, I made my points using scripture and not a false dichotomy. Your arguments (along with your arrogance) has been exposed.
You claim that those who fall away were never believers to begin with. That in itself is a logical fallacy. As I pointed out to you that is like you claiming since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs. Your illogical claim is that because some who fall away were never really believers, then all who fall away were never really believers. That is not logical, nor is it scriptural. Scripture makes it clear that there are those who apostatize from the faith. Explain how is it possible for an unbeliever to depart from the faith which he/she was never a part of to begin with? Your argument has been exposed as a weak one both logically and scripturally.

No one who is born of God practices sin means those who are born of God DO NOT PRACTICE SIN. Yet you say there are those who are born of God that do practice sin and lose their salvation. John DID NOT say that, but if you want to stick with that fallacy you are free to do so. I will believe John.
Yes, those who are born of God do not practice sin. If they do, they are of the devil (1 Jn 3:8). What do you suppose that means? Is someone who is of the devil still saved? I will believe John who states the opposite of what you believe.

Nobody said anything about a free pass or a license to sin etc..
So if a genuine believer chooses to practice sin, evidencing an unrepentant lifestyle, is he/she still saved? Your fall back excuse is that he/she was never saved in the first place. So given your position, you being a genuine Christian (I assume) can never fall into sin and habitually sin/practice sin because then that would entail that you were never, ever a Christian to being with, correct?

Context is key, yet death may refer to spiritual death or physical death. It all depends on the context, which is not poor hermeneutics and does not amount to eisegesis.
In the passage being discussed the context indicates you are eisegeting the text as I pointed out. Care to wrestle with the text based on my pointing that out to you?

Again, you are adding your own personal commentary to Romans 8:1. "Who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" is "descriptive" of those who are "in Christ Jesus." Paul did not say that these believers do not walk according to the Spirit.
The clause in v.1 refers to those "who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." These are the ones for whom is promised "no condemnation." You have a choice don't you as to whether to walk in the flesh or Spirit? Yes or No? If you choose to walk in the flesh evidencing no repentance, are you still not condemned? Yes or No?

Believers are condemned if they walk according to the Spirit? :doh:You mean according to the flesh. Again, Paul said who do not walk according to the flesh. There is no implication of believers here not walking according to the Spirit and being condemned. So where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you are not walking according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit? Sinless perfection?
Nope as you and I know, no such thing a sinless perfection as we all sin per 1 Jn 1:8,10. However there is a marked difference between occasional sin which all believers still commit and the practice of sin which not all believers commit. Notice that 1 Jn 1:7 states that IF we are walking in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses our sin. The word "if" indicates a condition (walking in the light) that must be met in order for the cleansing blood of Jesus to be efficacious. "If" indicates possibility, maybe even probability, but never certainty. It is therefore possible that a genuine believer can choose to walk in darkness by practicing sin and not walking in the light. If that is the case then the cleansing blood of Jesus is not assured of since the believer lives an unrepentant lifestyle. Thus John and Paul are in perfect agreement as not walking in the light and not living according to the Spirit for the believer results in spiritual death.

It's a warning to unbelievers/those who walk according to the flesh. *Stop ignoring Romans 8:8-11.
Nope. Only believers have the CHOICE to walk according to the flesh OR according to the Spirit. You have ignored the little word "IF." Unbelievers have no such choice as being unregenerated they cannot help but walk according to the flesh. That being the case, Paul would have used the word "since" if he were addressing unbelievers since unbelievers can only choose to live according to the flesh. Moreover, Rom 8:13 is a first class condition sentence which for the sake of argument assumes that the protasis is true and consequently the apodosis is also true. I suggest you look it up and inform yourself accordingly.

Just because this letter is addressed to "little children" does not mean that everyone being addressed in the letter is a child of God. "The one practicing sin is of the devil" is not a child of God! Don't be so naive. Paul makes a clear contrast between children of God and children of the devil in 1 John 3:7-10.
Quite the contrary. Any author of a book, letter, etc. can specify who his specific audience is. Paul specified that his audience is "little children" which can only mean true believers. The child of God who practices sin is of the devil. You are free to believe otherwise.

Yes, I read what you wrote and you did no such thing. Get over yourself.
Same applies to you.

did not totally ignore what you said in James 5:13,14 which does not change a thing. *I find it interesting that you tried to discredit the word "among" in James 5:19,20 by saying that "among" need not be in the text and is not in the text in some translations, yet later you back peddle and point out that the word "among" is in James 5:13,14 as if that changes everything in regards to James 5:19,20. :rolleyes:
Nope. I first showed you that "among" is not universally included in all translations which automatically weakens your argument. Then I proceeded to totally discredit your argument when pointing out to you that "among" in the preceding verses plainly refers to believers. You however claim that the meaning of "among" somehow changes from believers to unbelievers from v. 13-14 to v. 19-20. How exactly does that work? You play fast and loose with "among" in order to cling to your doctrine.

Not necessarily and even if vs. 19 was referring to believers, the death in that case would be physical, not spiritual, as I already throughly explained in posts #26 and #81. :oldthumbsup:
Nope. Everyone physically dies whether or not they wander from the truth. The verse therefore warns against death of the soul which is spiritual death from which a believer can be saved from if he/she turns back to the truth.

You are the master of IRONY.
Funny...it takes one to know one.
 
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