The resurrection of the dead...

Do you believe in a spiritual resurrection?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • No

    Votes: 9 69.2%

  • Total voters
    13

devin553344

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
 

Dave-W

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It is a physical resurrection. Our Lord was raised physically and in 1 john it says "we will be like Him."

But while it was the same physical body, it was glorified and became a "spiritual body" that could be disguised, it could just "appear" and disappear and enter locked rooms.
 
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eleos1954

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Those in the 1st resurrection will be given new bodies, not corruptible, eternal, unable to be destroyed.

Those in the 2nd resurrection will not be given eternal bodies, they will be raised with corruptible bodies and will be destroyed.
 
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devin553344

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Those in the 1st resurrection will be given new bodies, not corruptible, eternal, unable to be destroyed.

Those in the 2nd resurrection will not be given eternal bodies, they will be raised with corruptible bodies and will be destroyed.

Thanks that's interesting to me, do you have scripture that says that about the second resurrection?
 
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devin553344

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It is a physical resurrection. Our Lord was raised physically and in 1 john it says "we will be like Him."

But while it was the same physical body, it was glorified and became a "spiritual body" that could be disguised, it could just "appear" and disappear and enter locked rooms.

Will we be able to do that after being resurrected?
 
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Dave-W

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Will we be able to do that after being resurrected?
I would think so. The saints that were raised when our Lord raised were said to have "appeared" to many, using the same language of just suddenly appearing like our resurrected Lord did.

Matthew 27:52
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Unfortunately there's a lot of confusion over that passage from 1 Corinthians because English doesn't really have a good translation of what's being said in the Greek. What Paul is contrasting here is the soma psuchekos and the soma pneumatikos. This word psuchekos is an adjective form of psuche, usually translated as "soul", and so soma psuchekos means something like "soulish body". So the contrast is between the "soulish body" and the "spiritual body".

Now, these adjectives have nothing to do with the material composition of the body, this should be common sense since obviously the present body isn't comprised of some sort of soul-stuff. Rather it speaks instead of the sort of operating or animating principle of the body; the present body is governed by the soul, it is animal, base, mortal, dependent upon the animal desires and appetites. However, in the resurrection the body is instead "spiritual", or perhaps better put Spiritual. In the resurrection the sort of life we have is from the Holy Spirit, it is a glorified body, a transformed body, an immortal body, an incorruptible body.

Compare with what St. Paul writes in Romans 8:11, "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."

It is the Spirit who quickens, who gives life to our mortal bodies in the resurrection. And so, as Paul writes, "this mortal must put on immortality, this corruptible must put on incorruption." There is a transfiguration of the body, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible. From, as Paul again writes in Philippians chapter 3:21, "[Christ,] who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself."

The resurrection is physical, as it is of the body. It is not us going from physical to non-physical; but the physical body going from "soulish" to "Spiritual"; from mortal to immortal, from the present order of things laboring as they are under sin and death to the full glorious estate of the future world. For we look forward to the resurrection of the body and the life of the Age to Come, for God will make all things new, as all creation which now labors under bondage of sin and death shall be set free (Romans 8:18-24), made whole, and glorified in the beatifying Light of God in that glory which is to come (Isaiah 65:17-25, Revelation 21:1-6).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Will we be able to do that after being resurrected?

"But, as it is written, 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him'" - 1 Corinthians 2:9

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." - 1 Corinthians 13:12

"Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." - 1 John 3:2

-CryptoLutheran
 
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devin553344

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Unfortunately there's a lot of confusion over that passage from 1 Corinthians because English doesn't really have a good translation of what's being said in the Greek. What Paul is contrasting here is the soma psuchekos and the soma pneumatikos. This word psuchekos is an adjective form of psuche, usually translated as "soul", and so soma psuchekos means something like "soulish body". So the contrast is between the "soulish body" and the "spiritual body".

Now, these adjectives have nothing to do with the material composition of the body, this should be common sense since obviously the present body isn't comprised of some sort of soul-stuff. Rather it speaks instead of the sort of operating or animating principle of the body; the present body is governed by the soul, it is animal, base, mortal, dependent upon the animal desires and appetites. However, in the resurrection the body is instead "spiritual", or perhaps better put Spiritual. In the resurrection the sort of life we have is from the Holy Spirit, it is a glorified body, a transformed body, an immortal body, an incorruptible body.

Compare with what St. Paul writes in Romans 8:11, "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."

It is the Spirit who quickens, who gives life to our mortal bodies in the resurrection. And so, as Paul writes, "this mortal must put on immortality, this corruptible must put on incorruption." There is a transfiguration of the body, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible. From, as Paul again writes in Philippians chapter 3:21, "[Christ,] who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself."

The resurrection is physical, as it is of the body. It is not us going from physical to non-physical; but the physical body going from "soulish" to "Spiritual"; from mortal to immortal, from the present order of things laboring as they are under sin and death to the full glorious estate of the future world. For we look forward to the resurrection of the body and the life of the Age to Come, for God will make all things new, as all creation which now labors under bondage of sin and death shall be set free (Romans 8:18-24), made whole, and glorified in the beatifying Light of God in that glory which is to come (Isaiah 65:17-25, Revelation 21:1-6).

-CryptoLutheran

I don't think I fully understand the idea yet: So sin is put under foot? Can the resurrected sin?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I don't think I fully understand the idea yet: So sin is put under foot? Can the resurrected sin?

Concupiscence will be gone, as such the bondage and slavery to sin which yokes us even now in our own bodily members (c.f. Romans ch. 7) will be gone. All that will be left is the liberty and freedom of Christ.

Sinfulness isn't a property of being physical; however we are in our whole humanity held in bondage to sin and death. And thus sin is present, as Paul says, in our bodily members. And so we look forward to even the redemption of our bodies. There will be no more concupiscence, the inward, hard-baked sinfulness that drives us toward selfishness and away from God. And so the liberty and freedom we look toward in Christ, is whole and entire. Mind, body, soul, will, etc. Our entire person being made perfect in Christ. What has begun now, which we have received through faith continuing and reaching its goal in the resurrection and the future life.

If I have to answer the question "Can the resurrected sin?" I think the best way to address that is to look at things from the analogy of maturity. As a mature adult we do not do the things we did when we were small children or as infants. The language Paul uses at times is comparable to this, speaking of us becoming mature and attaining the full measure of Christ (Ephesians 4:13). If Adam is an infant and we are like Adam, Christ is the adult man which we shall come to be like. Where sin came through Adam, so in Christ has come victory over sin; where in Adam all die, so in Christ all are made alive.

If we have born the image of Adam, and have inherited the wreckage of Adam's disobedience; in Christ we have inherited sonship, adoption, and eternal life. Our inheritance in Christ is the glory found in Christ.

If we have walked in Adam's image, we shall walk then in Christ's. For the old man must die, and the new man must live.

"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways." - 1 Corinthians 13:11

-CryptoLutheran
 
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devin553344

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Concupiscence will be gone, as such the bondage and slavery to sin which yokes us even now in our own bodily members (c.f. Romans ch. 7) will be gone. All that will be left is the liberty and freedom of Christ.

Sinfulness isn't a property of being physical; however we are in our whole humanity held in bondage to sin and death. And thus sin is present, as Paul says, in our bodily members. And so we look forward to even the redemption of our bodies. There will be no more concupiscence, the inward, hard-baked sinfulness that drives us toward selfishness and away from God. And so the liberty and freedom we look toward in Christ, is whole and entire. Mind, body, soul, will, etc. Our entire person being made perfect in Christ. What has begun now, which we have received through faith continuing and reaching its goal in the resurrection and the future life.

If I have to answer the question "Can the resurrected sin?" I think the best way to address that is to look at things from the analogy of maturity. As a mature adult we do not do the things we did when we were small children or as infants. The language Paul uses at times is comparable to this, speaking of us becoming mature and attaining the full measure of Christ (Ephesians 4:13). If Adam is an infant and we are like Adam, Christ is the adult man which we shall come to be like. Where sin came through Adam, so in Christ has come victory over sin; where in Adam all die, so in Christ all are made alive.

If we have born the image of Adam, and have inherited the wreckage of Adam's disobedience; in Christ we have inherited sonship, adoption, and eternal life. Our inheritance in Christ is the glory found in Christ.

If we have walked in Adam's image, we shall walk then in Christ's. For the old man must die, and the new man must live.

"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways." - 1 Corinthians 13:11

-CryptoLutheran

I agree with that, as I don't see marriage in heaven: Matthew 22:30

But for some reason I just always felt that concupiscence will be gone. I felt the Holy Spirit a few times really strong, and when I was filled with the spirit concupiscence dissipated.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

You have to look at the comparison Paul is making. Paul is comparing Adam with Jesus. The first Adam was made a living soul as per Genesis 2:7. That is how Adam was made and all of us who are born from Adam are also made like this. We are all living souls. Now the body Jesus had after he resurrected is the model of the body we will have when we are resurrected. So the natural is what we now have but at the resurrection we will have a spiritual body which is still physical but it will be incorruptible and immortal.
 
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Jonaitis

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

I don't.

I believe by "spiritual" body, it is one free from the moral corruption that the natural body is in.
 
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devin553344

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You have to look at the comparison Paul is making. Paul is comparing Adam with Jesus. The first Adam was made a living soul as per Genesis 2:7. That is how Adam was made and all of us who are born from Adam are also made like this. We are all living souls. Now the body Jesus had after he resurrected is the model of the body we will have when we are resurrected. So the natural is what we now have but at the resurrection we will have a spiritual body which is still physical but it will be incorruptible and immortal.

Yeah I kinda believe we will be given like broken bread, like a new body of Christ. I don't think people will raise from the graves. Maybe I'm wrong?
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Yeah I kinda believe we will be given like broken bread, like a new body of Christ. I don't think people will raise from the graves. Maybe I'm wrong?

Well the bible says very clearly in multiple places that people will rise from the graves.
 
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devin553344

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Well the bible says very clearly in multiple places that people will rise from the graves.
Can you show me where? I'd like to have a look. Thanks.

I have a hard time imagining them rising from actual graves in the literal sense. Because they're now buried 6 feet down and most are just bones at this point. In Jesus' time they would just roll away a stone to access the body.
 
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Tone

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Do you believe the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual resurrection? A resurrection where the spirit can be to the measure of body?

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."


I'm not sure what you mean...yes, everything about the resurrection is spiritual. Was Adam made spiritual?
 
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