Judas why was he picked?

ToBeLoved · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Hi, if you look an the two angels on the Mercy Seat they have four faces. One face is that of a Lion symbolic of the King which is the first Gospels focus the Lord as King. Then comes the second face an ox or a servant and mark portrays the Lord as the ultimate servant. The third face is that of a man and Luke portrays the Lord as fully Man. Finally the last face was that of an eagle and John’s Gospel reveals to us He was fully God. We are told how angels come and men seek to worship them mistaking them for the eagle the Lord, we are told how angels come as men. The Ox is seen in the teaching of His angels are servants of fire. The fourth aspect that of King is they are shown as fallen angels in Daniel with their own fallen kingdoms. The Holy Angels never step beyond these boundaries.

How does this show that angels are made in the “image of God “ though, which was the specific thing I asked about?

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

Strong in Him said:
How do you explain the fact that Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan?
Indeed, how do you explain any of the other points that I made - all from Scripture?

I believe the Lord spoke that “if” Satan drove out Satan he would have a divided kingdom. I do not believe Satan cannot do so. Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. During the first three and a half years he will be seen as the promised Messiah. It is when he hits the halfway mark the wolf in sheep’s clothing reveals himself to be anti-Christ. Your questions I thought I answered is it you choose not to accept those answers. His name alone should tell us he not only opposes Christ, anti, but he counterfeits the Christ. A delusion so strong he could deceive the Elect. Remove yourself from this age to the age when anti-christ comes what would he have to seem to fulfill in order to make the elect believe he is Messiah? The prophecies foretelling the coming of Messiah? What else could he seem to fulfill but those prophecies.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
How does this show that angels are made in the “image of God “ though, which was the specific thing I asked about?

I guess if it isn’t what is shown there that the Gospels who depict the Angel of God who is Jesus Christ-portraying in the same four images, King, Servant, Man and God. Men seek to worship them. Angels come as men and some have unknowingly entertained angels. Servants of fire, the ox face.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
When did Judas try to cast out Satan?

Doesn’t say he did. This ultimate opposer to the Lord was constantly doing his things and you may wish to draw this conclusion but it is not revealed in Scripture that he actually did so.

ToBeLoved · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
I guess if it isn’t what is shown there that the Gospels who depict the Angel of God who is Jesus Christ-portraying in the same four images, King, Servant, Man and God. Men seek to worship them. Angels come as men and some have unknowingly entertained angels. Servants of fire, the ox face.

In my thinking, an angel transforming into something, doesn’t speak to the original estate of angels themselves which is why I asked.

I believe that the angels became jealous of mankind because we were created in the image of God.

I don’t believe angels are or there is no scripture stating that.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
When did Judas try to cast out Satan?

Scripture records he was sent out to do so. Judas was always opposing the Lord. He stole from the purse, he linked up with the Lord’s enemies and who knows where else he rebelled.

ToBeLoved · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Doesn’t say he did. This ultimate opposer to the Lord was constantly doing his things and you may wish to draw this conclusion but it is not revealed in Scripture that he actually did so.

Oh ok.

I thought you were correlating it back to Judas in some way.

YeshuaFan · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Could it be that Judas was anti-Christ? The Lord said Judas is "the Son of Perdition, not a son of perdition. Anti-Christ has a head wound which Judas also has. could this be the head wound he supposedly recovers from in a counterfeit of the Resurrection? Also I wonder about the number 666 it is the number of man. Anti-Christ is a triune being and it appears that each of them will be a man, 6 Satan in the form of a man, son of Satan anti-Chtist in the form of a man and the false prophet also in the form of a man, 666. We are shown angels coming as men a number of times in Scripture, Angels, even fallen angels are made in the Image of the Lord just as men also are in His Image, the Image of the Lord Jesus.

if judas was anti-Christ was given the Sop at the PASSOVER? The Lord's wats truly are not our ways He is pure Love while we vacillate between some and none for the most part concerning our enemies and those we don't like. What a God!!!

Judas fulfilled the OT prophecy that stated that one close to the Shephard would strike him, and God just used Judas, as Judas was qyite willingly to be the betrayer of Jesus!

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

YeshuaFan said:
Judas fulfilled the OT prophecy that stated that one close to the Shephard would strike him, and God just used Judas, as Judas was qyite willingly to be the betrayer of Jesus!

Hi yeshuafan, all I am saying is that not only was Judas revealed in the prophecy you give

YeshuaFan said:
Judas fulfilled the OT prophecy that stated that one close to the Shephard would strike him, and God just used Judas, as Judas was qyite willingly to be the betrayer of Jesus!

all this true of Judas. But so is the Lord declaring that Judas was ‘the” Devil. Twice in. 17:12 and 2 thess. 2 the Lord says Judas is “the son of perdition even calling him “the man of sin.”” And twice the Lord calls him ‘the son of perdition.’ 2 thess is very telling because Judas is also termed the ‘man of sin.” Nowhere are these terms ever meant to be an ordinary man.

Strong in Him · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
I believe the Lord spoke that “if” Satan drove out Satan he would have a divided kingdom. I do not believe Satan cannot do so.

Jesus asked, "How can Satan drive out Satan? ....... If Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come." Mark 3:23-26
Satan hates God. He wants to get as many people as possible to oppose God; he wouldn't oppose himself, and therefore weaken himself.

Vicky gould said:
Satan can transform himself into an angel of light.

Yes, to deceive believers in God - not himself.

Vicky gould said:
During the first three and a half years he will be seen as the promised Messiah.

What first 3 1/2 years, and what has this to do with Judas?

Vicky gould said:
Your questions I thought I answered is it you choose not to accept those answers.

No, you were saying that Judas is a fallen angel; I wrote that Scripture says that he was a man.
You were saying that he is in the abyss; I said that we don't know.
You seemed to be saying that Judas was alive, in some counterfeit resurrection; I said that Scripture says no such thing.
You said that Judas had a head would, like the anti Christ will have; you were wrong about that, he didn't.

Vicky gould said:
His name alone should tell us he not only opposes Christ, anti, but he counterfeits the Christ.

The name Judas is the Greek form of Judah and means "let him be praised.", Genesis 29:35.

The antiChrist is anti Christ, yes - doesn't mean that he pretends to be Christ to counterfeit him and fool believers.
It was Christ who appointed Judas to be his follower, to see, and do, miracles and to preach the Gospel. You really think the antiChrist would lead people to Jesus? I doubt he can even bear to say his name.

Vicky gould said:
A delusion so strong he could deceive the Elect.

That's nothing to do with Judas.
Judas was a man chosen by Christ - unless, as I've asked before - you are saying that Jesus didn't know what he was doing, and was himself fooled.

Vicky gould said:
Remove yourself from this age to the age when anti-christ comes what would he have to seem to fulfill in order to make the elect believe he is Messiah?

That's nothing to do with Judas; Judas is dead.

Vicky gould said:
The prophecies foretelling the coming of Messiah? What else could he seem to fulfill but those prophecies.

The antiChrist will appear to be like Christ because he will do great things, give people what they want and I wouldn't be surprised if he even quoted Scripture; he's done it before.
People will be deceived because they don't belong to Jesus and don't know their Bibles - just as many cults manage to deceive people because they say "the Bible says", and non Christians don't know enough about it to contradict them.

Judas fulfilled only one prophecy - the one that said that God's chosen would be betrayed by a close friend.
Scripture does not say anywhere that the antiChrist was, or will be, called Judas.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
In my thinking, an angel transforming into something, doesn’t speak to the original estate of angels themselves which is why I asked.

I believe that the angels became jealous of mankind because we were created in the image of God.

I don’t believe angels are or there is no scripture stating that.

One of the most intriguing statements about angels has to do with in the Days of Noahfallen angels would be in the world. If we look back at that account when angels left their proper. Place we are told they took the daughters of men and had children by them. Out of these unions between fallen angels came the stories of the mighty men of old and other myths. In what form do you think these fallen angels took in order to have children with the daughters of men. We are shown those fallen angels in the last days ascending out of the Abyss under king anti- christ

ToBeLoved · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
One of the most intriguing statements about angels has to do with in the Days of Noahfallen angels would be in the world. If we look back at that account when angels left their proper. Place we are told they took the daughters of men and had children by them. Out of these unions between fallen angels came the stories of the mighty men of old and other myths. In what form do you think these fallen angels took in order to have children with the daughters of men. We are shown those fallen angels in the last days ascending out of the Abyss under king anti- christ

Please reread my post.

I said angels in their ORIGINAL State.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

Strong in Him said:
Jesus asked, "How can Satan drive out Satan? ....... If Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come." Mark 3:23-26
Satan hates God. He wants to get as many people as possible to oppose God; he wouldn't oppose himself, and therefore weaken himself.

Yes, to deceive believers in God - not himself. Yes he is coming as an angel of light as he counterfeits the Light of the world.

What first 3 1/2 years, and what has this to do with Judas?

3 and a1/2 years into the 70th Week of Daniel prophecy

No, you were saying that Judas is a fallen angel; I wrote that Scripture says that he was a man. Scripture says Christ was a Man it not being mutually exclusive to be both man and anti-Christ..

You were saying that he is in the abyss; I said that we don't know. I am saying anti-Christ is being held prisoner in the Abyss and there is scripture that appears to confirm that in this world he was Judas.

You seemed to be saying that Judas was alive, in some counterfeit resurrection; I said that Scripture says no such thing. He suffers a head wound that appears unto death from which he seems to miraculously come back to life and the whole world marvels after him.

You said that Judas had a head would, like the anti Christ will have; you were wrong about that, he didn't. You caught me there. I have already stated I erred because the head wound does not take place until after he returns.

The name Judas is the Greek form of Judah and means "let him be praised.", Genesis 29:35.yes?

The antiChrist is anti Christ, yes - doesn't mean that he pretends to be Christ to counterfeit him and fool believers. Have you studied all the ways scripture says he counterfeits the Christ. Common sense tells us that if anti-Christ could almost fool them into believing how great a counterfeit would he have to be to pull that off. If we accept your understanding the great delusion that is being sent on the world if not anti-Christ counterfeiting the Christ what is it? Remember a delusion that “could almost fool the Elect.’
It was Christ who appointed Judas to be his follower, to see, and do, miracles and to preach the Gospel. You really think the antiChrist would lead people to Jesus? I doubt he can even bear to say his name. When did Judas lead anyone to Christ? Nothing ever recorded to show that took place.

That's nothing to do with Judas.
Judas was a man chosen by Christ - unless, as I've asked before - you are saying that Jesus didn't know what he was doing, and was himself fooled. I make a statement and you take it conclusions not offered. Judas was chosen by Christ and Christ new exactly who he was and restified that out of the 12 He chose one of them is “the Devil.’ In his knowing who Judas was The Lord also tells that Judas was ‘the son of perdition.’ John 17 : 12 and again in 2 thess 2 the only one lost of the twelve we are told that not only is Judas “the son of perdition.’ In 2thess we have added that ‘he is the man of sin.”

That's nothing to do with Judas; Judas is dead.

The antiChrist will appear to be like Christ because he will do great things, give people what they want and I wouldn't be surprised if he even quoted Scripture; he's done it before.
People will be deceived because they don't belong to Jesus and don't know their Bibles - just as many cults manage to deceive people because they say "the Bible says", and non Christians don't know enough about it to contradict them.

Judas fulfilled only one prophecy - the one that said that God's chosen would be betrayed by a close friend. If you would please site any other prophecies that point to anti-Christ/ Judas..
Scripture does not say anywhere that the antiChrist was, or will be, called Judas again in revelations it tells us of anti-Christ ‘was, is not now, and will be again. Do you have a concordance to look these words up? .

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
Please reread my post.

I said angels in their ORIGINAL State.

I can only offer the teaching that angels can and do change into ministers of light. We see angels not as angels but like human soldiers when Jacob is fleeing and is shown the two camps of angels sent to minister to Jacob. This was the way the Lord created the angels from the beginning. Am I misunderstanding your meaning again? Sorry if so.

Vicky gould · Sep 6, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
How does this show that angels are made in the “image of God “ though, which was the specific thing I asked about?

It shows the angels as presented in the Old Testament as being in the same pattern Christ is revealed by the Gospels, Christ being The Angel of the Lord. Then we have the times angels come and men fall down and worship them until they are told they are not God. Angels have come as men and people have entertained them never knowing they were angels. We are told His angels are ministers of fire and that Satan transform himself into an angel of light as he counterfeits the true Light of the World.

Carl Emerson · Sep 6, 2019

So much of this discussion depends on whether Judas was referred to as The Devil or A Devil...

Very few translations indicate the former.

I asked before if someone with a good grasp of NT Greek could comment on this.

Please step in if you are suitably qualified.

ToBeLoved · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
I can only offer the teaching that angels can and do change into ministers of light. We see angels not as angels but like human soldiers when Jacob is fleeing and is shown the two camps of angels sent to minister to Jacob. This was the way the Lord created the angels from the beginning. Am I misunderstanding your meaning again? Sorry if so.

I think the original statement was made by someone else that I was answering.

I get what your saying

Strong in Him · Sep 6, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Yes he is coming as an angel of light as he counterfeits the Light of the world.

Is coming, yes; nothing to do with Judas Iscariot who has already lived and died.

Vicky gould said:
3 and a1/2 years into the 70th Week of Daniel prophecy

Ok, if that's what you believe.
I'm not getting into that because I don't understand, and don't know if I believe, it.

Vicky gould said:
Scripture says Christ was a Man it not being mutually exclusive to be both man and anti-Christ..

No.
Jesus was man and God so that he could mediate between man and God, Hebrews 9:15. He is, and always was, God and became human so that he could pray for us as our great High Priest, Hebrews 2:17.
The anti Christ will be a man; ONLY a man, and someone who is totally opposed to Christ. Judas was chosen by Christ, followed him, listened to him, did miracles and cast out demons.

You are writing as if Judas and the anti-Christ are the same person; they are 2 different beings. Judas has lived and died, the anti-Christ is still to come - even you have said that.

Vicky gould said:
You caught me there. I have already stated I erred because the head wound does not take place until after he returns.

Judas didn't have a head wound in any case.

Vicky gould said:
The name Judas is the Greek form of Judah and means "let him be praised.", Genesis 29:35.yes?

You said that his name should tell us that he is anti Christ. I just pointed out that, as we were talking about Judas, his name does not mean anything of the kind. Again, you are writing as though Judas and the anti-Christ are the same person - they are not.

Vicky gould said:
Have you studied all the ways scripture says he counterfeits the Christ. Common sense tells us that if anti-Christ could almost fool them into believing how great a counterfeit would he have to be to pull that off. If we accept your understanding the great delusion that is being sent on the world if not anti-Christ counterfeiting the Christ what is it? Remember a delusion that “could almost fool the Elect.’

Re read that Scripture - "that could almost fool the elect". In my Bible, Matthew 24:24 says " .. will perform signs to deceive even the elect - if that were possible". Mark uses the same words.

Again, the anti-Christ is the anti-Christ. He will appear in end times, perform signs and wonders to lead people astray and appear to be like a god so that people worship him. Future - still to come.
Judas Iscariot was a man, a human being with parents and ancestors, who was chosen to be a disciple, betrayed Jesus, killed himself and is dead. Past - it happened.

Vicky gould said:
When did Judas lead anyone to Christ? Nothing ever recorded to show that took place.

No, but he was sent out with the other 11, with authority over all demons, to preach the Kingdom of God and heal the sick. He is not recorded as leading someone to Christ, true; then again, we don't know if someone believed because they heard Judas preaching. And you can hardly call me out on something that Scripture does not say, when your posts are full of things that Scripture does not say.

Vicky gould said:
I make a statement and you take it conclusions not offered.

I was ASKING if that's what you were saying. It wasn't clear to me; I asked a question.

Vicky gould said:
Judas was chosen by Christ and Christ new exactly who he was and restified that out of the 12 He chose one of them is “the Devil.’

One of them is A devil.
Judas Iscariot was not the devil.
The devil was created as an angel of light, called Lucifer. He tried to overpower God and become greater than God; obviously he could not succeed and was thrown out of heaven, with many angels who had sided with him. The devil was around before the world was created; he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden and was behind all Job's sufferings, Job 1. The devil tempted Jesus in the wilderness, and then went away and left him for a while.
Judas Iscariot was a human being; not eternal, only 30-40 years, or so, old. He was chosen to be a disciple, followed Jesus for 3 years seeing, and doing, miracles. Then he betrayed Jesus and died. If Judas was the devil then we would have no evil in the world now, because Judas is dead.
The devil is not dead - yet, though Jesus defeated him on the cross.

Vicky gould said:
Scripture does not say anywhere that the antiChrist was, or will be, called Judas

Well exactly - yet you seem to be saying that the anti-Christ was Judas Iscariot.

Vicky gould said:
again in revelations it tells us of anti-Christ ‘was, is not now, and will be again. Do you have a concordance to look these words up? .

If you are NOT saying that the anti-Christ was Judas Iscariot, then I apologise for misunderstanding you.
But maybe you should be a little clearer in what you are saying, rather than resort to sarcasm because something that you wrote was not clear.

sdowney717 · Sep 6, 2019

miggles said:
you have a good point. the telling thing about judas' intentions is that he hung himself when his plan failed. i think he really thought Jesus would strike down the romans once He was arrested and threatened with execution.

Well he took the 30 pieces of silver happily enough.
Matthew 26
14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver Him to you?” And they counted out to him thirty pieces of silver. 16 So from that time he sought opportunity to betray Him.

Judas did not believe Christ was the Son of God, or God in the flesh.

miggles · Sep 6, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Well he took the 30 pieces of silver happily enough.
Matthew 26
14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver Him to you?” And they counted out to him thirty pieces of silver. 16 So from that time he sought opportunity to betray Him.

Judas did not believe Christ was the Son of God, or God in the flesh.

he didn't "happily" take it. he hesitantly took it. and threw it back at them when he realized his plan had failed. then hung himself.

Judas why was he picked?

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