Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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Revelation and the 70ad Olivet Discourse does not involve the whole global world......tho it still affects the whole religious world today, more specifically, OC Mosaic Judaism.......

Jer 1:15
For behold, I am calling All the families of the kingdoms of the north,” says the LORD;
They shall come and each one set his throne At the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem,
Against all its walls all around, And against all the cities of Judah
.
======================================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
15 And He is saying to me "These the Waters which thou saw, where the harlot is sitting, are peoples and multitudes<3793> are being, and nations and tongues.
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot, and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked, and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315>
and shall be burning Her in fire.

Revelation 18:8
Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
==================================================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

destruction_complete.jpg




Revelation and the Olivet discourse most certainly do involve the entire world. If it were not so, the scriptures would have been more specific about nations, empires, and kingdoms would be affected by the events of the book of Revelation and what was foretold in the Olivet discourse.
 
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Yes. The actual words of God do matter to some of us...

.


But you are making much ado about nothing. I am not replacing "so" with "then." The context of Romans 11:26, as it pertains to the salvation of Israel is future tense either way.
 
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BABerean2

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But you are making much ado about nothing. I am not replacing "so" with "then." The context of Romans 11:26, as it pertains to the salvation of Israel is future tense either way.

Not necessarily, based on the verse below from Romans 11.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


In Romans 11 Paul described the method of salvation by being grafted back into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

There is no Plan B outside of the New Covenant Church in the passage.

.
 
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jgr

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Zechariah 13:9 says that a day will come when two thirds of the nation of Israel will die, and that the remaining third will be saved. Is that or is that not a remnant?

Zechariah did not characterize his own Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant.

Paul did not cite Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant, or cite it at all.

No one else in the entirety of Scripture cited Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant, or cited it at all.

So how is Zechariah 13:9 a remnant?
 
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We do know what that fire is the Lord will use on His Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 39:26 plainly states on that Day the sun will shine 7 times brighter.....An explosion of the suns surface, a Coronal mass ejection, confirmed by Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1, Psalms 11:4-6, 2 Peter 3:7, +
It will strike the Middle East at mid day, Zephaniah 2:4, and virtually depopulate the entire area. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 34:1-8, +
Only a few Messianic Jews will survive hiding underground. Isaiah 29:1-4, a genuine remnant of a few thousand at the most. Many will die around the world, Jeremiah 25:33, but those who heeded the warnings and took shelter, will survive.

Your idea of the survival and redemption of the current Jewish nation, is quite wrong and not supported by the Bible. The Lord intends to wipe out both the righteous and the wicked from the Negev to the North, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14
The actual remnant will join with their Christian brethren and all the faithful people of God will live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10



Isaiah 39 has only eight verses. There is no verse 26 and it says nothing about the sun shinning seven times brighter than normal.
None of the verses you cite specifically mention anything like that. They may mention fire, but they do not say anything about the sun being involved.

We do read about the sun scorching the earth with intense heat in the book of Revelation (Rev. 16:8) but not every wicked soul is killed by this judgment because other catastrophic plagues follow to punish those who have not succumbed to the sun's scorching fire and after all of these things, the armies of the world are gathered to a place called Armageddon and are destroyed by our Lord, the Anti-Christ and his false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and Satan is bound in the abyss for a thousand years before being thrown into the Lake of Fire himself.

Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14 and Jeremiah 10:18 already met their fulfillment when Judah was taken into captivity by Babylon. Isaiah 29:1-4 does not say anything about anyone hiding underneath the ground.

Jeremiah 12:14-16, 50:4-5, Ezekiel 34:11-6, and Isaiah 35:1-10 are speaking specifically about the regathering of the Jewish people back in their land and their restoration. They do not say anything about the Church in its entirety dwelling there.

Granted that some of the Church will be in Israel during the reign of Christ, but the saints will be given charge over various parts of the earth in that day.
 
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Not necessarily, based on the verse below from Romans 11.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


In Romans 11 Paul described the method of salvation by being grafted back into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

There is no Plan B outside of the New Covenant Church in the passage.

.


I never said there was a plan B outside of Christ and the passages that you cite do not in any way render Romans 11:26 in the present tense. Romans 11:5 states that there are Jews presently coming to Christ. Verse 23 says that they can be grafted back in if they do not remain in unbelief. Verse 26 says that they will not remain in unbelief.
 
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Zechariah did not characterize his own Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant.

Paul did not cite Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant, or cite it at all.

No one else in the entirety of Scripture cited Zechariah 13:9 as a remnant, or cited it at all.

So how is Zechariah 13:9 a remnant?


You even know what "remnant" means? It means a fraction of a greater part or the remainder of a greater part. That being said, the third part out of three spoken of in Zechariah 13:9 qualifies as a remnant. The scripture does not necessarily place a size limitation on a remnant except that the remnant is always in the minority.
 
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BABerean2

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Verse 23 says that they can be grafted back in if they do not remain in unbelief. Verse 26 says that they will not remain in unbelief.

Verse 26 says no such thing.
It simply explains the "manner" of salvation, based on the meaning of the Greek word "houto" in Romans 11:26.



.
 
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jgr

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Verse 26 says no such thing.
It simply explains the "manner" of salvation, based on the meaning of the Greek word "houto" in Romans 11:26.



.

Romans 11:26 : "And so all Israel shall be saved" Future tense. As it pertains to Israel as a nation, Paul did not say that "Israel was saved" (past tense) or that "Israel is being saved" (present tense) He said "Israel shall be saved" implying future tense. The Greek word "houto" does not give any indication otherwise.
 
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Not according to Zechariah.

Not according to Paul.

Not according to anyone else in Scripture.


If two thirds of a people perish from a catastrophe of any sort and a third part is spared, does that or does that not qualify as a remnant?
 
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jgr

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Romans 11:26 : "And so all Israel shall be saved" Future tense. As it pertains to Israel as a nation, Paul did not say that "Israel was saved" (past tense) or that "Israel is being saved" (present tense) He said "Israel shall be saved" implying future tense. The Greek word "houto" does not give any indication otherwise.

All Israel, Jews and Gentiles who come to Christ, is being saved from sin today.

As a result, all Israel, Jews and Gentiles who have come to Christ, shall be saved from eternal punishment in the end.
 
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jgr

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If two thirds of a people perish from a catastrophe of any sort and a third part is spared, does that or does that not qualify as a remnant?

Not if there is no Scripture which identifies it as a remnant.

Not if there is Scripture which identifies a different remnant.
 
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keras

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Isaiah 39 has only eight verses. There is no verse 26 and it says nothing about the sun shinning seven times brighter than normal.
Sorry typo, it is in Isaiah 30:26 that we are told the Lord will use an explosion of the suns surface to literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about that terrible Day.
We know how the sun does regularly send out Coronal Mass Ejections and the ones that have affected the earth have been small enough to not cause much, if any damage. But scientists know that if a really big one was earth directed, then what is prophesied can and we know: will happen.
The Lord's threats are not in vain. He will do what He has told us thru the prophets. Ezekiel 33:33
 
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BABerean2

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Romans 11:26 : "And so all Israel shall be saved" Future tense. As it pertains to Israel as a nation,

You are ignoring the Baal worshipers which were the majority of the nation in Romans 11:1-5, and Paul's words in the verse below.

Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

Do you think Paul changed his mind between chapter 9, and chapter 11 of the same letter?


The Greek below shows your future tense idea to be in error.

(KJV+) AndG2532 soG3779 allG3956 IsraelG2474 shall be saved:G4982 asG2531 it is written,G1125 There shall comeG2240 out ofG1537 SionG4622 theG3588 Deliverer,G4506 andG2532 shall turn awayG654 ungodlinessG763 fromG575 Jacob:G2384



G4982

σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Total KJV occurrences: 110

.
 
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All Israel, Jews and Gentiles who come to Christ, is being saved from sin today.

As a result, all Israel, Jews and Gentiles who have come to Christ, shall be saved from eternal punishment in the end.


This applies to the nation of Israel as well. (Zech. 13:9, Rom. 9:27, 11:26)
 
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Not if there is no Scripture which identifies it as a remnant.

Not if there is Scripture which identifies a different remnant.


So, even if the number of a people who call on the name of Jesus, out of an entire whole, are within the range that qualify them as a remnant, and are consistent with the definition of a remnant they are not a remnant unless they are specifically called a remnant?
 
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You are ignoring the Baal worshipers which were the majority of the nation in Romans 11:1-5, and Paul's words in the verse below.

Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

Do you think Paul changed his mind between chapter 9, and chapter 11 of the same letter?


The Greek below shows your future tense idea to be in error.

(KJV+) AndG2532 soG3779 allG3956 IsraelG2474 shall be saved:G4982 asG2531 it is written,G1125 There shall comeG2240 out ofG1537 SionG4622 theG3588 Deliverer,G4506 andG2532 shall turn awayG654 ungodlinessG763 fromG575 Jacob:G2384



G4982

σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Total KJV occurrences: 110

.


No, I don't believe Paul changed his mind. It is just that one day, the believing Jews who are presently in the minority will one day be the entire nation of Israel (Rom. 11:26) and the Greek does not show me to be in error. It is merely giving definitions that can be applied to a past, present, or future tense context and in the case of Romans 11:26, it is being applied in a future tense context.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Romans 11:26 : "And so all Israel shall be saved" Future tense. As it pertains to Israel as a nation, Paul did not say that "Israel was saved" (past tense) or that "Israel is being saved" (present tense) He said "Israel shall be saved" implying future tense. The Greek word "houto" does not give any indication otherwise.

The Greek below shows your future tense idea to be in error.

(KJV+) AndG2532 soG3779 allG3956 IsraelG2474 shall be saved:G4982

G4982 σώζω
.
No, I don't believe Paul changed his mind. It is just that one day, the believing Jews who are presently in the minority will one day be the entire nation of Israel (Rom. 11:26) and the Greek does not show me to be in error. It is merely giving definitions that can be applied to a past, present, or future tense context and in the case of Romans 11:26, it is being applied in a future tense context.
Hello C E. The Greek agrees with you and not with BAB. Good post..............
[I show some of the verses at bottom of the post that use that particular form of #4982]

G4982 (NKJV)


σωθήσεται — 13x G4982 σῴζω
V-FPI-3S
Occurrences: 13 times in 13 verses
Speech: Verb
Parsing: Future Indicative Passive
3rd Person Singular

New Testament Greek

Lesson 2

In Greek, tense indicates not only time of action, but more especially kind of action.

In this lesson, the Present tense and the Future tense will be introduced. Clearly, we see a distinction between the time of the action represented by these two tenses. However, from the outset, we want to note the importance of kind of action.
In an absolute way, tense indicates time of action only in the indicative mood. In other moods, it may indicate a time of action in a relative way. But tense is associated with kind of action in all moods.

Voice refers to the relationship between subject and verb. In English, it answers the question, is the subject active or passive with respect to the action?
Consider the following two sentences:

The bull tramples the ground.
The ground is trampled by the bull

In the first sentence, the subject is "bull" and the bull is actively trampling. The verb "tramples" is in the Active voice.
In the second sentence, the subject is "ground" and the ground is passively being trampled. The verb "is trampled" is in the Passive voice.

There are three voices in Greek. They are the Active, the Middle, and the Passive.
In this first course, we will only concern ourselves with the Active Voice

Future Active Indicative
The Future Tense does not use the same stem as does the Present tense. In fact, there are 6 basic verb stem forms, or "principal parts" for each Greek verb. The Present tense uses the 1st principle part and the Future tense uses the 2nd principle part. However, for most of the verbs we will be learning in this course, the only difference between the Present stem and the Future stem is the letter σ (sigma). So for now, you can learn this simple rule: To form a Future tense verb, start with the Present tense stem, add σ, and then add the personal endings.

Below is the FUTURE ACTIVE INDICATIVE conjugation of λύω.

singular plural
1st person
λύσω I shall loose λύσομεν we shall loose
2nd person λύσεις you will loose λύσετε you (plural) will loose
3rd person λύσει he, she, it, will loose λύσουσι they will loose
==========================================
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be being hated by all thru the Name of Me.
The one yet enduring into a-finish<teloV <5056>, this one shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:13 - “But he who is enduring to the end shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>.

Mark 13:13 - “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.
But he who endures to the end shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>.
==================
Acts 2:21 And it shall be all of whom ever should be calling upon the Name of Lord shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>.

Romans 9:27 - Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>.

Romans 10:13 For all who ever should be calling upon the Name of Lord, shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>.

Greek and Hebrew Reader Online
Roman 11:26
and thus all Israel shall be being saved<σωθήσεται>: even as it has been written, 'There shall be arriving out of Zion the Deliverer/One rescuing<4506>; He shall be turning away ungodliness from Jacob'
26 καὶ οὕτως πᾶς Ἰσραὴλ σωθήσεται· καθὼς γέγραπται, ἥξει ἐκ Σιὼν ὁ ῥυόμενος, ἀποστρέψει ἀσεβείας ἀπὸ Ἰακώβ·

Revelation 21:24 - and the nations shall be being saved<σωθήσεται> in its light shall be walking,
and the kings of the land do bring their glory and honour into it,
 
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Sorry typo, it is in Isaiah 30:26 that we are told the Lord will use an explosion of the suns surface to literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about that terrible Day.
We know how the sun does regularly send out Coronal Mass Ejections and the ones that have affected the earth have been small enough to not cause much, if any damage. But scientists know that if a really big one was earth directed, then what is prophesied can and we know: will happen.
The Lord's threats are not in vain. He will do what He has told us thru the prophets. Ezekiel 33:33


No, the sun in that day is not killing anyone since this is taking place in a time of healing and restoration. Read the proceeding verses of the same chapter: Isaiah 30:19-25
 
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