Why Jesus Said that Bread was His Body

childeye 2 · Sep 4, 2019

Jipsah said:
It wasn't at all obvious to His hearers then (This is an hard saying; who can hear it?), and He was willing to let it remain a hard saying even if they left Him over it. Does sound like it was just a metaphor to me. I'm gonna take it literally.

I have already stated that the disciples found it a hard saying to understand in post#32. Remember we're talking about different scriptures here. So while I'm pretty sure that they knew Christ was a man made of flesh and blood and not a loaf of bread, I'm also pretty sure that what was hard to hear was having to drink his blood and eat his flesh. I believe Jesus meant to offend them because he knew that many had followed him because he had filled their bellies.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

childeye 2 · Sep 4, 2019

charsan said:
Exactly. People still leave Him today by saying the bread is just a symbol

I haven't left him and I believe the bread is a symbol/analogy. Even Paul used the term "bread" as a symbol/analogy for the church when he said "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread".

Ask yourself this question; Who do you think is the one bread that we all partake of that makes us members of his body?

childeye 2 · Sep 4, 2019

Lost4words said:
Transubstantiation. Says it all. Its the truth.

The Truth is the knowledge of God, Who is Spirit, contained in the revelation of Christ.

charsan said:
Exactly. People still leave Him today by saying the bread is just a symbol

I believe that the people who left him in John 6 were offended by him saying that they had to eat and drink his flesh and blood. If I am right about that, then I feel it's safe to say that they took him literally, not symbolically.

JIMINZ · Sep 4, 2019

childeye 2 said:
We're probably speaking past one another. I don't believe that his words "this is my body which shall be broken for you" fits the definition of a parable per'se. But the bread which he is saying is his body "that will be broken for you", is meant to be taken as an analogy for his literal body that will be scourged beaten and crucified on the morrow. To take it literally would mean that he broke his literal body and gave it to his disciples to eat. After his body had literally been consumed, there would have literally been no body to crucify the next day.

Technically speaking about the Crucifixion of Jesus, what is spoken by Jesus has to be a Metaphor because, He says.

1 Co 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Ok, here is the technical part, which explains His word being a metaphor.

John 19:36
For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

So then, was Jesus speaking Physically, Literally, NO, He was speaking Metaphorically.

GingerBeer · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
Respectfully, the "bread" has to be a metaphor.

To fit your paradigm the bread may need to be metaphorical but the disciples ate it and so did Jesus and you can't eat a metaphor. Maybe your paradigm is what is in error?

GingerBeer · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
We're probably speaking past one another. I don't believe that his words "this is my body which shall be broken for you" fits the definition of a parable per'se. But the bread which he is saying is his body "that will be broken for you", is meant to be taken as an analogy for his literal body that will be scourged beaten and crucified on the morrow.

The words are sacramental not literal. The bread is bread from every measurable property including taste and feel but it is the body of Christ and that is no metaphor.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

GingerBeer said:
The words are sacramental not literal. The bread is bread from every measurable property including taste and feel but it is the body of Christ and that is no metaphor.

What does sacramental mean to you?

GingerBeer · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
What does sacramental mean to you?

It means the text of scripture that is deliberately written to reflect the form of words to use for a specific sacrament. In this case the specific sacrament is the last supper. My perspective is that the last supper is the supper that Jesus had with his disciples and that Christians have now and that is called the marriage feast of the lamb. One supper. Sacramental words are intended for a ritual or ceremony that is about what God does and did, and will do.

charsan · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
I haven't left him and I believe the bread is a symbol/analogy

Actually you have with the sentence. Christ said anyone that does not partake of him has no life and if any believe it is just a symbol going against thousands of years of Church history from the Apostles than that person has no life in them. You are just parroting the same lie that has been going around since Zwilligi from the reformation.

Albion · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
Respectfully, the "bread" has to be a metaphor. The bread of life/the Christ, literally came into this world in a body made of flesh and blood and not literally as a loaf of bread. It's an obvious metaphor.

It wouldn't be a metaphor if the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity gave the piece of bread he was holding at the Last Supper a new nature.

ViaCrucis · Sep 5, 2019

We don't eat and drink metaphors.

So, no, it's not a metaphor. It's bread and it's wine, and Christ said the bread was His body, and He said the wine was His blood. Jesus said it is what it is, so it is.

-CryptoLutheran

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

charsan said:
Actually you have with the sentence. Christ said anyone that does not partake of him has no life and if any believe it is just a symbol going against thousands of years of Church history from the Apostles than that person has no life in them. You are just parroting the same lie that has been going around since Zwilligi from the reformation.

Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you". Respectfully, I eat and drink his flesh and blood every time I partake of the bread and wine in remembrance of his suffering and loving sacrifice for me.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

Albion said:
It wouldn't be a metaphor if the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity gave the piece of bread he was holding at the Last Supper a new nature.

Jesus said this is my body which will be broken for you. I believe he's talking about being crucified the next day so that sins can be forgiven and to establish the New Covenant sealed in his blood. Therefore, it's a metaphor since I don't believe he's saying that the bread he is holding and giving his disciples to eat will be crucified for us. I believe that his actual flesh will be nailed on the cross and his actual blood will be spilled, hence I eat and drink in memory of this event just as he said to do.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
We don't eat and drink metaphors.

So, no, it's not a metaphor. It's bread and it's wine, and Christ said the bread was His body, and He said the wine was His blood. Jesus said it is what it is, so it is.

-CryptoLutheran

To be clear, a loaf of bread was not crucified on the cross, so to me it's a metaphor for his body, and more importantly, the Person who occupies that body. That's important to understand since we are to emulate Him not his body.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

GingerBeer said:
It means the text of scripture that is deliberately written to reflect the form of words to use for a specific sacrament. In this case the specific sacrament is the last supper. My perspective is that the last supper is the supper that Jesus had with his disciples and that Christians have now and that is called the marriage feast of the lamb. One supper. Sacramental words are intended for a ritual or ceremony that is about what God does and did, and will do.

Okay, but this does not address the meaning behind the sacramental words. Semantics are about understanding the meaning or sentiment behind the words of the person speaking.

Albion · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
Jesus said this is my body which will be broken for you.

True.

I believe he's talking about being crucified the next day so that sins can be forgiven and to establish the New covenant. Therefore to me, it's a metaphor since I don't believe he's saying that the bread he is holding and giving his disciples to eat will be crucified for us.

Okay. I get it. It's reasonable and I'm going to have to think on it for awhile.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

GingerBeer said:
To fit your paradigm the bread may need to be metaphorical but the disciples ate it and so did Jesus and you can't eat a metaphor. Maybe your paradigm is what is in error?

I didn't invent the term metaphor so it's not my paradigm. A metaphor is a figure of speech that states something that can't literally be true. In contrast, when Jesus says, my flesh is food and my blood is drink, this to me is not a metaphor, since this is literally true to me in a spiritual context. For I notice that elsewhere he says, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled...and also...I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. These all are spiritual words talking about spiritual things and not carnal things.

childeye 2 · Sep 5, 2019

JIMINZ said:
Technically speaking about the Crucifixion of Jesus, what is spoken by Jesus has to be a Metaphor because, He says.

1 Co 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Ok, here is the technical part, which explains His word being a metaphor.

John 19:36
For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

So then, was Jesus speaking Physically, Literally, NO, He was speaking Metaphorically.

That's an interesting point, but I think the fact that a loaf of bread was not crucified is a clear indicator of the bread being a metaphor.

BobRyan · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
Respectfully, the "bread" has to be a metaphor. The bread of life/the Christ, literally came into this world in a body made of flesh and blood and not literally as a loaf of bread. It's an obvious metaphor.

True - but they ate a literal loaf of bread at the communion service - Last Supper

Dennis12 said:
Understanding how at the Last Supper Jesus became one with our lost and broken creation. And how by rising from the dead God demonstrated the reality of his promise of new life to the lost and broken.

Jesus became one with our broken creation in John 1 - at his birth "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us".

The lesson of Manna
"Man does not live by BREAD alone but by every WORD the proceeds from the mouth of God" Deut 8:3

John 6
"I already AM the bread that CAME DOWN out of heaven" John 6:51
eating " literal flesh is worthless it is My WORD that has Spirit and LIFE" John 6:63

JIMINZ · Sep 5, 2019

childeye 2 said:
That's an interesting point, but I think the fact that a loaf of bread was not crucified is a clear indicator of the bread being a metaphor.

While what you say is absolutely true, there are some who will not understand until there isn't any other Grammatical argument left to be made.

But then again maybe someone who is looking at this thread 5 years from now will read it and understand.

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