Should the world have kept slavery? Why or why not?

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I see the same thing as Toro just described, heck I saw this in my late teens and really began to notice it in my early 20’s.
What exactly are you talking about?

I guess some are unwilling to “see” this happening over the years. Just as eras come and pass, so too does the system “evolve” as he has explained.
There wasn't any explanation! All we see is a claim that something is evolving, so "slavery."
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Swan7
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,559
394
Canada
✟235,114.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Technically slavery as it existed in Biblical times existed as the rich or middle class providing housing and food to the poor class was not only biblical but it was the way society ran for several thousands of years.

It's yes and no. The Bible never endorsed slavery between Hebrews.

Leviticus 25:42-43 (NIV2011)
Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves. Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.

So the Hebrew slavery, unlike the secular slavery, is a labor system to try to help those poor Hebrews who have to sell themselves as slaves. If the Jews don't accept them as workers, they may have sell themselves to the gentiles.

On the other hand, the secular slavery is a human establishment accepted as moral even by the most decent people. God's job thus is to save those slave masters and owners if they choose to abide by what are specified by the covenant they are subject to.

Because it's considered by humans that slavery is moral that the Jews are thus allowed to own non-Jew slaves. God however strictly forbid the Jews to enslave their fellow Hebrews. At the time of Jeremiah, God even forbid the Jewish slavery system as a labor system because it's abused and made no difference from the secular one.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,648
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,629.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I dont need to know a reason....If I know you truly desire something....My desire is for you to have it. I dont believe God cares about the content of our desires either....He just gives us whatever we sow....and we decide later if we like the taste of the fruit at harvest time....and whether or not to plant those same seeds again.

I say let the OPer experience slavery for himself, and then see if he likes it.

With each of your 6 posts so far in this thread, you've implied that the OP desires slavery, or to own slaves. Read his post again, and you'll see that he never said that.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,648
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,629.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
If it is not against person own will, then it is ok.

Exactly! Even Paul describes himself as one right from the beginning of one of his main letters. Romans 1:1, although different versions translate it as "servant".
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1213
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
With each of your 6 posts so far in this thread, you've implied that the OP desires slavery, or to own slaves. Read his post again, and you'll see that he never said that.
I always said, If the OP desires to enter slavery, he should feel free to do so. Never did I imply that I knew what he was getting at, nor did I touch on the owning of slaves.....which would then affect his neighbors .

I only spoke on him entering it himself.....which would, in most cases, affect no one but himself. I felt this to be the the only scenario to speak on, that would not anger many by appearing to be insensitive to the plight of many christians, with families who had to endure the very thing this OP proposes to re-institutionalize.....or, at the very least, question whether it was right to end.
 
Upvote 0

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
Supporter
Dec 13, 2015
5,229
4,189
37
US
✟909,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Sorry guys! I'm so far behind on this thread that I cannot possibly keep up with or reply to you all! You've all raised some good points/concerns but a few things I'd like to add. Slavery used to be a good way for the extremely poor to make ends meet. In return their masters would also treat them with kindness and respect and not


What was horrible about the enslaving of the blacks too was the fact that often times white men would sleep with their black slaves and have mixed children and then deny that that baby was theirs. Well whose else would it be?


Odds are I would be a slave yes because my wife and I are quite poor and can barely make ends meet. It would be nice to get free food and free room and board in exchange for cleaning and cooking and doing other services for someone.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Sorry guys! I'm so far behind on this thread that I cannot possibly keep up with or reply to you all! You've all raised some good points/concerns but a few things I'd like to add. Slavery used to be a good way for the extremely poor to make ends meet. In return their masters would also treat them with kindness and respect and not


What was horrible about the enslaving of the blacks too was the fact that often times white men would sleep with their black slaves and have mixed children and then deny that that baby was theirs. Well whose else would it be?


Odds are I would be a slave yes because my wife and I are quite poor and can barely make ends meet. It would be nice to get free food and free room and board in exchange for cleaning and cooking and doing other services for someone.
God sent his son Jesus to be a servant, not to enslave people.

Slaves were not always treated well. Some were forced to work even though they were starving. They were tortured and kept in chains to prevent them from seeking better conditions elsewhere.

Growing up in slavery after your mother was raped by the slave owner is not the same as growing up in a loving family.

Slavery is a sin. People desire freedom.
 
Upvote 0

Norbert L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 1, 2009
2,856
1,064
✟560,360.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Which is not the topic of this thread, however.
I then run into the problem of correlation does not equal causation. When I read what you suggested, "you would find accounts [of slavery] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." that I need to understand this shows slavery was always horribly bad. Then I ask myself how does that line of reasoning work for the rest of humanity? Basically "you would find accounts [of free men] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." doesn't show anything about the social structure of that time other than it was a brutal world for free people as well.

So what's you take on the Epistle of Paul to Philemon? As far as I know, no one here would suggest it was an example of, "you would find accounts [of slavery] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." It reflects a rather different picture of a far more complex world.
 
Upvote 0

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
Supporter
Dec 13, 2015
5,229
4,189
37
US
✟909,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
God sent his son Jesus to be a servant, not to enslave people.

Slaves were not always treated well. Some were forced to work even though they were starving. They were tortured and kept in chains to prevent them from seeking better conditions elsewhere.

Growing up in slavery after your mother was raped by the slave owner is not the same as growing up in a loving family.

Slavery is a sin. People desire freedom.

I'm sorry but that just isn't Biblical. Slaves were allowed in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Even Abraham and Solomon had slaves and treated most of the them with kindness and respect.
If slavery was a sin then why did God allow people to have slaves throughout history?
A few supporting verses are:

Colossians 4:1
Ephesians 6:5
1 Peter 2:18
Titus 2:9-10
Exodus 21:1-36
Proverbs 22:16
Leviticus 25:43

and more.

Maybe you're correct that SOME slave owners didn't treat their slaves very well I already brought up one particular nation from history that didn't but if they were following the Bible and the commandments of God than they would have HAD to. Because God commands in the Bible to treat your slaves with respect and kindness.

People today just don't like slavery because of the way the blacks were treated. But had the Americans actually treated their slaves as the bible commanded them to then, the Civil war probably would have never started and slavery might not have been outlawed. Just a thought.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Basically "you would find accounts [of free men] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." doesn't show anything about the social structure of that time other than it was a brutal world for free people as well.
That nevertheless sidesteps the issue here.

So what's you take on the Epistle of Paul to Philemon? As far as I know, no one here would suggest it was an example of, "you would find accounts [of slavery] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." It reflects a rather different picture of a far more complex world.
Well, because I was the first one to point out that the issue is more complicated than the OP seemed to think, I cannot disagree with your comment here. However, it still does not address the topic as it was put to us, and I do not choose to go off-topic. You understand, I hope.
 
Upvote 0

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
Supporter
Dec 13, 2015
5,229
4,189
37
US
✟909,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I then run into the problem of correlation does not equal causation. When I read what you suggested, "you would find accounts [of slavery] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." that I need to understand this shows slavery was always horribly bad. Then I ask myself how does that line of reasoning work for the rest of humanity? Basically "you would find accounts [of free men] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." doesn't show anything about the social structure of that time other than it was a brutal world for free people as well.

So what's you take on the Epistle of Paul to Philemon? As far as I know, no one here would suggest it was an example of, "you would find accounts [of slavery] so terrifyingly inhuman as to curl your hair." It reflects a rather different picture of a far more complex world.

Well the thing is the Bible gives an account of Abraham. A Godly man who started the Jewish nation and salvation for the human race. He owned many slaves and was very rich. Yet, he treated all of his slaves with kindness and respect. Otherwise, he wouldn't have gotten the favor from God. So to say that some slaves in history were treated badly means that ALL slaves were treated badly is just unbiblical. The Bible gives an account of many people in OT times who treated their slaves with kindness and respect. Paul commands it several times in the New Testament. The list just goes on and on.

It wasn't until the Americans started enslaving the blacks that the problems with slavery really started.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

A Realist

Living in Reality
Dec 27, 2018
1,371
1,335
Georgia
✟67,536.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well the thing is the Bible gives an account of Abraham. A Godly man who started the Jewish nation and salvation for the human race. He owned many slaves and was very rich. Yet, he treated all of his slaves with kindness and respect. Otherwise, he wouldn't have gotten the favor from God. So to say that some slaves in history were treated badly means that ALL slaves were treated badly is just unbiblical. The Bible gives an account of many people in OT times who treated their slaves with kindness and respect. Paul commands it several times in the New Testament. The list just goes on and on.
This is one of the same "slavery is biblical" excuses the American South used as a reason to keep their slaves. :rolleyes:

You would have been a superb antebellum plantation owner.
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm sorry but that just isn't Biblical. Slaves were allowed in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Even Abraham and Solomon had slaves and treated most of the them with kindness and respect.
If slavery was a sin then why did God allow people to have slaves throughout history?
A few supporting verses are:

Colossians 4:1
Ephesians 6:5
1 Peter 2:18
Titus 2:9-10
Exodus 21:1-36
Proverbs 22:16
Leviticus 25:43

and more.

Maybe you're correct that SOME slave owners didn't treat their slaves very well I already brought up one particular nation from history that didn't but if they were following the Bible and the commandments of God than they would have HAD to. Because God commands in the Bible to treat your slaves with respect and kindness.

People today just don't like slavery because of the way the blacks were treated. But had the Americans actually treated their slaves as the bible commanded them to then, the Civil war probably would have never started and slavery might not have been outlawed. Just a thought.
Jesus did not keep slaves, nor the apostles. Some Christians helped slaves escape brutal conditions in the south. The north prospered without slaves.

If you want to be a slave, you might try Pakistan where Muslim brickyard owners kept Christians in bondage giving them little more than some food and the clothes on their back. The Christians had to make bricks, but could not earn enough to pay back their debts and go look for better employment. One international Christian group was paying ransom money to brickyard owners to free Christian slaves.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,648
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,629.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Jesus did not keep slaves, nor the apostles. Some Christians helped slaves escape brutal conditions in the south. The north prospered without slaves.

If you want to be a slave, you might try Pakistan where Muslim brickyard owners kept Christians in bondage giving them little more than some food and the clothes on their back. The Christians had to make bricks, but could not earn enough to pay back their debts and go look for better employment. One international Christian group was paying ransom money to brickyard owners to free Christian slaves.

Perhaps Jesus didn't, but Christ does.

Ephesians 6:6
"not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart."
 
Upvote 0

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
Supporter
Dec 13, 2015
5,229
4,189
37
US
✟909,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Jesus did not keep slaves, nor the apostles. Some Christians helped slaves escape brutal conditions in the south. The north prospered without slaves.

If you want to be a slave, you might try Pakistan where Muslim brickyard owners kept Christians in bondage giving them little more than some food and the clothes on their back. The Christians had to make bricks, but could not earn enough to pay back their debts and go look for better employment. One international Christian group was paying ransom money to brickyard owners to free Christian slaves.

Nope Jesus Christ when he was here on Earth did not keep slaves. BUT! Like it or not when we all accepted Christ we became slaves to Christ and to God (Ephesians 6:6). We were saved to do God's will and his works here on Earth (and not our own will) (Ephesians 2:10) and after we die and this sinless world is over, to perfectly obey and be with God for all of eternity. That's why we were created. Humans (and ALL of God's creations) were created to serve God. This is just a historical fact. Hence why God allowed slavery for so many years because slavery in it's purest and right form was not a wrong or bad thing. When God gives us new bodies then this will not become such a hard to accept reality and we will serve God without question for all of eternity.

Never quite said I wanted to be a slave. Although if I was given room and board and free food in exchange for doing a couple of chores I would probably gladly do it. I asked if abolishing slavery was the right thing. It seems that most of the people on CF agree in the abolition of slavery and some of them agree that slavery should have never been abolished. I'm not the only person here advocating slavery and I'm not even pro slavery. I just merely asked a question.

I also seemed to point out that it was mostly the Americans that mistreated their slaves. Both Abraham and Solomon were two examples from the Bible that did NOT mistreat their slaves. So to say that ALL slave owners mistreated their slaves is factually incorrect. Especially when there are multiple instances of "correct" treatment of slaves in the Bible for us to look at.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
Supporter
Dec 13, 2015
5,229
4,189
37
US
✟909,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
This is one of the same "slavery is biblical" excuses the American South used as a reason to keep their slaves. :rolleyes:

You would have been a superb antebellum plantation owner.

Yes, but the only problem is they didn't keep God's commandments of not mistreating their slaves. There was nothing wrong with them OWNING the slaves. It was their treatment of them that was the problem. They claimed to be following God when they were in fact, not. It wasn't just 200 years ago either though even to this day people are claiming to follow God yet, do not follow the Bible. It's just the fallen world we live in.

I mean I could go on a day long rant of how the Patriots and later Americans claimed to follow God from the beginning yet, never did.
 
Upvote 0