Can we date divorcees?

Dave-W · Sep 3, 2019

Dave L said:
This doesn't add up to the Greek definition of Bound.
Paul forbids remarriage after divorce.

What do you hope to gain from this kind of reasoning?

Dave L · Sep 3, 2019

Dave-W said:
What do you hope to gain from this kind of reasoning?

To keep people from sinning and to enjoy God's blessing instead of chastisement if they are really saved.

Francis Drake · Sep 3, 2019

Dave L said:
To keep people from sinning and to enjoy God's blessing instead of chastisement if they are really saved.

Contrary to your expectation of chastisement against me Dave, I enjoy God's blessings daily despite being a divorcee!
In fact I've not ceased enjoying God's blessings since I gave my life to the Lord around 60 years ago.

When my first wife had an affair, although I was devastated at the betrayal, I took hold of God's amazing peace, and that is what sustained me through the darkness.

I completely believed in the sanctity of marriage, so forgave her, but in the end, she still walked out. She had no intention of reconciliation.

Devastated again, I went and drank deeply of God's amazing peace. Then when I sought Him for guidance, God confirmed that she had no intention of changing.

Subsequent to that I moved to a different church, and whilst there, I met the woman of God who would become my new wife.

She had been faithfully praying for a husband, someone who God would directly lead her to. She had refused to go out with anyone unless it was the man she would marry, and God had sustained her in that through many years.

We both heard God speak that we were to be married, and many people confirmed it as God's purpose in our lives.

We now live in God's peace and joy every day, and have seen amazing answers to prayer and wonderful provision from Him. In fact our life together has been a real joyful adventure as we discover more and more of God's plans for our life.

One of the things the Lord has done is given us a ministry into marriage together.
We have been in situations where complete strangers have asked us directly whether we have a ministry into marriage, and would we pray there and then.

So @Dave L , contrary to your judgements against us, God has blessed us instead, and shown us his salvation every day.

You should try grace Dave, its far more fruitful than law!

Anguspure · Sep 3, 2019

Dave L said:
This doesn't add up to the Greek definition of Bound.

Paul forbids remarriage after divorce.

“To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.” (1 Corinthians 7:10–11)

Paul also uses the word for slavery saying we are not slaves (bound) to the unbeliever who departs.

1402. δουλόω dŏulŏō, doo-lŏ´-o; from 1401; to enslave (lit. or fig.):—bring into (be under) bondage, × given, become (make) servant.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 24). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

He uses a different word when he says a woman is bound (tied) to the law and cannot remarry until her husband dies.

1210. δέω dĕō, deh´-o; a prim. verb; to bind (in various applications, lit. or fig.):—bind, be in bonds, knit, tie, wind. See also 1163, 1189.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 21). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

And he uses a different word for marriage.

1060. γαμέω gamĕō, gam-eh´-o; from 1062; to wed (of either sex):—marry (a wife).

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

So this passage does not allow for remarriage when deserted by an unbeliever.

“And, if the unbelieving doth separate himself—let him separate himself: the brother or the sister is not under servitude in such cases, and in peace hath God called us;” 1 Corinthians 7:15 (YLT)

So the lady who's husband died That Paul refers to in Romans 7, as an illustration of how we are not longer obligated under the written Law, is still married?

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. Romans 7

Paul is very clear in this passage that she is not: So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. Romans 7

Nowhere in this passage does it specify that she is no longer married, only that she is free from the law that binds her.

As for the passage you quote in 1 Corinthians 7; Paul clearly makes a merciful exception to his guidance within the same passage so that people who have been abandoned by unbelieving spouses are released from the law that binds them.

Anguspure · Sep 3, 2019

Dave L said:
To keep people from sinning and to enjoy God's blessing instead of chastisement if they are really saved.

Blessing? A life of isolation and loneliness, burning with passion is what we wish on murderers and rapists. Strange sort of blessing that one, and when thus inflamed we are of very little use to our Lord, or anybody else for that matter. The men who I work with that are happy in this way have long ago lost the virility of life and are little more than eunuchs. For the rest of us it is a cruel torture, at least for the ones who actually bother to resist the lure of other ways to work things out.

Dave L · Sep 4, 2019

Anguspure said:
Blessing? A life of isolation and loneliness, burning with passion is what we wish on murderers and rapists. Strange sort of blessing that one, and when thus inflamed we are of very little use to our Lord, or anybody else for that matter. The men who I work with that are happy in this way have long ago lost the virility of life and are little more than eunuchs. For the rest of us it is a cruel torture, at least for the ones who actually bother to resist the lure of other ways to work things out.

I knew a divorced woman who went into missions and possibly has several 100s of saved children to her credit. Now that's a blessing.

Dave L · Sep 4, 2019

Anguspure said:
So the lady who's husband died That Paul refers to in Romans 7, as an illustration of how we are not longer obligated under the written Law, is still married?

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. Romans 7

Paul is very clear in this passage that she is not: So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. Romans 7

Nowhere in this passage does it specify that she is no longer married, only that she is free from the law that binds her.

As for the passage you quote in 1 Corinthians 7; Paul clearly makes a merciful exception to his guidance within the same passage so that people who have been abandoned by unbelieving spouses are released from the law that binds them.

God created marriage in Eden and hates divorce.

Dave L · Sep 4, 2019

Francis Drake said:
Contrary to your expectation of chastisement against me Dave, I enjoy God's blessings daily despite being a divorcee!
In fact I've not ceased enjoying God's blessings since I gave my life to the Lord around 60 years ago.

When my first wife had an affair, although I was devastated at the betrayal, I took hold of God's amazing peace, and that is what sustained me through the darkness.

I completely believed in the sanctity of marriage, so forgave her, but in the end, she still walked out. She had no intention of reconciliation.

Devastated again, I went and drank deeply of God's amazing peace. Then when I sought Him for guidance, God confirmed that she had no intention of changing.

Subsequent to that I moved to a different church, and whilst there, I met the woman of God who would become my new wife.

She had been faithfully praying for a husband, someone who God would directly lead her to. She had refused to go out with anyone unless it was the man she would marry, and God had sustained her in that through many years.

We both heard God speak that we were to be married, and many people confirmed it as God's purpose in our lives.

We now live in God's peace and joy every day, and have seen amazing answers to prayer and wonderful provision from Him. In fact our life together has been a real joyful adventure as we discover more and more of God's plans for our life.

One of the things the Lord has done is given us a ministry into marriage together.
We have been in situations where complete strangers have asked us directly whether we have a ministry into marriage, and would we pray there and then.

So @Dave L , contrary to your judgements against us, God has blessed us instead, and shown us his salvation every day.

You should try grace Dave, its far more fruitful than law!

I can't go beyond what the word says. Or make it say something it doesn't.

Acts2:38 · Sep 4, 2019

Dave-W said:
Paul adds abandonment by a non-believer as well in 1 Cor 7.

I would disagree.

Your missing the structure of the sentences/context:

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

I know of some information on this subject. Please allow me to insert it here, if you care to read it.
What Is the Meaning of "Not under Bondage" (1 Cor. 7:15)?

Anguspure · Sep 4, 2019

Dave L said:
I knew a divorced woman who went into missions and possibly has several 100s of saved children to her credit. Now that's a blessing.

Yes, I couldn't agree more! I have been in this sort of environment and it was the highlight of my life. But for now and many years to come I have a family to support and: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5
There is no exception given for this instruction from Paul but its funny how people who run off to paradise in missions while ignoring this injunction from Paul are lauded while those of us who are abandoned by the family we are still obligated to support are hung out to dry.

bèlla · Sep 4, 2019

Anguspure said:
but its funny how people who run off to paradise in missions while ignoring this injunction from Paul are lauded while those of us who are abandoned by the family we are still obligated to support are hung out to dry.

Because we are taught at a young age that stories have two sides and disagreements do as well. And whenever this topic is raised one person inevitably declares themselves the injured party. There are rarely instances when they acknowledge their part in its demise.

And since we’re addressing a relationship comprised of two sinners it isn’t difficult to imagine there’s blame on both ends. The person who devotes themselves to mission work has chosen to serve God. Dating on the mission field is hard.

Failure has a stigma. People find it easier to extend grace and respect to those who admit their shortcomings. But when their discourse devolves into sharing their spouse’s failings as justification for whatever follows that’s another matter. And its commonplace on these boards.

For me, it is never appropriate to undress my companion or person’s I’ve engaged with. I can articulate my point without casting shame upon them.

I’m welcome to address my faults. But will not lay the other’s out. Especially in a setting where they’re unable to defend themselves.

Anguspure · Sep 5, 2019

LaBèlla said:
Because we are taught at a young age that stories have two sides and disagreements do as well. And whenever this topic is raised one person inevitably declares themselves the injured party. There are rarely instances where they acknowledge their part in its demise.

And since we’re addressing a relationship comprised of two sinners it isn’t difficult to imagine there’s blame on both ends. The person who devotes themselves to mission work has chosen to serve God. Dating on the mission field is hard.

Failure has a stigma. People find it easier to extend grace and respect to those who admit their shortcomings. But when their discourse devolves into sharing their spouse’s failings as justification for whatever follows that’s another matter. And its commonplace on these boards.

For me, it is never appropriate to undress my companion or person’s I’ve engaged with. I can articulate my point without casting shame upon them.

I’m welcome to address my faults. But will not lay the other’s out. Especially in a setting where they’re unable to defend themselves.

Appreciate what you are saying Sister, it has been my recent repeated experience however.

lastofall · Sep 5, 2019

No. They that have the fear of God before their eyes shall not be looking to secular society's principles and practices for their standard which is the carnal mind: but they shall look only and exclusively to the Word of God for their standard, and nothing wavering.

Anguspure · Sep 5, 2019

Acts2:38 said:
I would disagree.

Your missing the structure of the sentences/context:

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

I know of some information on this subject. Please allow me to insert it here, if you care to read it.
What Is the Meaning of "Not under Bondage" (1 Cor. 7:15)?

I note that the article does not refer to the passage in Romans 7: "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man."

The verb is very clearly used in the context of married vs not married here, by the same author. Why should we suppose that his meaning was different when he was writing to the Corinthian church?

Further to this, if (assuming that your stance is correct) an unbelieving spouse who left the marriage goes onto commit adultery by taking another partner, is the believer still considered married? Are they at that point able to be finished with the whole business and finally get on with life?

Dave-W · Sep 5, 2019

Acts2:38 said:
I would disagree.

Your missing the structure of the sentences/context:

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

I totally agree with that. Notice the word "IF" in both verses. This is contingent on the unbelieving spouse wanting to stay in the marriage.

However, you left off this:

"15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, ...."

That changes the situation. That is abandonment. Verses 12 and 13 are NOT abandonment.

Dave L · Sep 5, 2019

Anguspure said:
Yes, I couldn't agree more! I have been in this sort of environment and it was the highlight of my life. But for now and many years to come I have a family to support and: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5
There is no exception given for this instruction from Paul but its funny how people who run off to paradise in missions while ignoring this injunction from Paul are lauded while those of us who are abandoned by the family we are still obligated to support are hung out to dry.

She didn't have any kids. But where there's a will, there's a way so they say.

bèlla · Sep 5, 2019

Anguspure said:
Appreciate what you are saying Sister, it has been my recent repeated experience however.

Many years ago I read a book by Ravi Zacharias. There was line echoed by his brother that floored me. Not because it was eloquent. But the magnitude of truth was hard to ignore. He said:

Love is as much a question of the will as it is of the emotion. And if you will to love somebody, you can.

All that you endure as a believer can be summarized in that statement. Every hardship and disappointment returns to a question of love and will.

When I saw your response last night I didn’t intend to reply. But when I read it this morning his words came to mind. And that doesn’t suggest they’re for you. Oftentimes the Lord ministers to me through my words to others.

Having endured everything from spiritual torment to daily warfare over a seven year period for someone who was not my spouse, partner, or relative. I can attest to the truth of his statement.

I see it in my previous reply to you and know its at the center of the change of heart I’ve had on this topic. I have never married and forsook the opportunity to pursue companionship during my stand. I may never bear another child because of that or find my Beloved for a long while.

My will and heart were on one accord. It didn’t matter what I suffered or set aside. The greater gain of his salvation exceeded anything I could relinquish. And its undertaking taught me how to love and what real love looks like.

I don’t know your situation. But I know the way forward is in that sentence. A daily portion of prayer cemented in a will to love no matter what. Come what may.

Love covers a multitude of sins. Oftentimes we’re unable to endure the hardship of its completion. But if we do, we’re freed from the bondage the pain has wrought.

May God’s wisdom and peace be your constant companions.

Francis Drake · Sep 5, 2019

Dave L said:
I knew a divorced woman who went into missions and possibly has several 100s of saved children to her credit. Now that's a blessing.

So what are you saying?

Francis Drake · Sep 5, 2019

Dave L said:
I can't go beyond what the word says. Or make it say something it doesn't.

You've been going well beyond the word constantly Dave.

Dave L · Sep 6, 2019

Francis Drake said:
You've been going well beyond the word constantly Dave.

Not really, I'm just saying if scripture omitted something, in this case a provision for divorce, we should not add it.

Can we date divorcees?

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