LDS LDS---YIKES!

Status
Not open for further replies.

twin.spin

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
May 1, 2010
797
266
✟72,766.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

John 3:15
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life..”

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 6:39
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 16:31
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
Ah yes, but you are cherry picking the scriptures.

What Jesus revealed is quite clear … "believe".

Stating anything else as being part of the Gospel the person will find themselves in a tragic ending as revealed in Galatians 1:8-9
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigDaddy4
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟217,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What we are talking about in the BOM is the first inhabitants after the flood which took place around 2300bc. So anything earlier than this is not in the discussion.

The Jaredites landed in the Americas around 2150bc. They came from the tower of Babel, after the flood, at the confusion of tongues. They were the first inhabitants of Mexico after the flood.
This is where I got the 3100 BC.
Book of Mormon chronology - Wikipedia

But I see this "official" source has it at 2200 BC.
Book of Mormon Time Line

Regardless, Mesoamerican history does not support your BOM theory. You have not provided non-Mormon evidence of this declaration of yours:
Mexican ancient history declares that the first humans to come to their country came from over the seas and landed on the east side of Mexico.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

John 3:15
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life..”

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 6:39
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 16:31
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”


What Jesus revealed is quite clear … "believe".

Stating anything else as being part of the Gospel the person will find themselves in a tragic ending as revealed in Galatians 1:8-9
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

John 3:15
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life..”

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 6:39
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 16:31
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”


What Jesus revealed is quite clear … "believe".

Stating anything else as being part of the Gospel the person will find themselves in a tragic ending as revealed in Galatians 1:8-9
Yes what Jesus said is indeed very clear. His word is the gospel.
 
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,500
13,648
✟426,176.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
You said: "I'm not really seeing where this drastic leap in logic is coming from, and anyway the flood is not what we were talking about. You mentioned 2150 BC as being the time when the Jaredites came to the Americas from the flood, so I pointed out that this doesn't make sense when considered in light of what we know about the history of writing, which shows many languages that would've been unintelligible to one another used across a wide area many centuries before that date (and that is just their preserved written record; obviously they would've been spoken before being written, since writing itself is just the codification of a certain register of language in the form of little squiggles), so if they came as a result of the confusion of the tongues, then they must've waited or been delayed over half a millennia, for some reason."

What are you basing your dates on? If it is carbon dating then Adam was not the first man. I believe that carbon dating is wrong.
"Since 1947, scientists have reckoned the ages of many old objects by measuring the amounts of radioactive carbon they contain. New research shows, however, that some estimates based on carbon may have erred by thousands of years."

From: ERRORS ARE FEARED IN CARBON DATING

Did you actually read this article before linking to it? Because those differences are between the earlier estimates made with carbon dating ('earlier' relative to 1990, when the article was written) and the then-more current estimates made with Uranium-Thorium dating, a more accurate method. Even then, in the crucial paragraph where the errors are spoken about, we are told the following:

Dr. Alan Zindler, a professor of geology at Columbia University who is a member of the Lamont-Doherty research group, said age estimates using the carbon dating and uranium-thorium dating differed only slightly for the period from 9,000 years ago to the present. ''But at earlier times, the carbon dates were substantially younger than the dates we estimated by uranium-thorium analysis,'' he said. ''The largest deviation, 3,500 years, was obtained for samples that are about 20,000 years old.''​

So they differ only slightly for a period dating 9,000 years ago until the present (1990). Since 9,000 years ago is approximately 7000 BC -- long before either the earliest evidence of writing in the late 26th century BC or the arbitrarily chosen date of 2150 BC, this really doesn't have any bearing on anything we're talking about.

There's also this from the article (emphasis added):

Carbon dating is unreliable for objects older than about 30,000 years, but uranium-thorium dating may be possible for objects up to half a million years old, Dr. Zindler said. The method is less suitable, however, for land animals and plants than for marine organisms, because uranium is plentiful in sea water but less so in most soils.​

Since there are no currently known examples of bona fide writing (not proto-writing) dating to older than 30,000 years ago (not even close; again, the earliest extant writing is from the 26th century BC, so writing itself is only about 4,600 years old...even if we round that off to an even 5,000 or double its length in anticipation of future discoveries, it's still nothing close to 30,000 years ago), these deviations -- even if they may be 16,500 years off -- do not impact the point I was making.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Okay.



I'm not really seeing where this drastic leap in logic is coming from, and anyway the flood is not what we were talking about. You mentioned 2150 BC as being the time when the Jaredites came to the Americas from the flood, so I pointed out that this doesn't make sense when considered in light of what we know about the history of writing, which shows many languages that would've been unintelligible to one another used across a wide area many centuries before that date (and that is just their preserved written record; obviously they would've been spoken before being written, since writing itself is just the codification of a certain register of language in the form of little squiggles), so if they came as a result of the confusion of the tongues, then they must've waited or been delayed over half a millennia, for some reason.

You're now moving on from that to something about the flood. Why? Is it that you see that the 2150 BC date doesn't work? That would be a good sign, if so.



Maybe this is true for you as a Mormon, but Christians get along fine without belief in the BOM, and still believe that Christ was born as the savior of the world, so again this seems to be quite a leap.



No, that does not follow at all. The two are not logically related.

If the BOM is false, the Bible can still be true, and whether or not the Bible is true (whatever that means; 'true' as in a history book? 'true' as in an accurate geological record of the world?) actually has no connection whatsoever with the BOM either way. Just pretend like you'll approach the Bible same as anyone would have in any year before 1830. Was there still Christianity in those days? Yes. So obviously, the BOM is nothing at all either way. It doesn't need to be considered, and its invalidity certainly says nothing about the Bible.

I'm not really seeing where this drastic leap in logic is coming from, and anyway the flood is not what we were talking about. You mentioned 2150 BC as being the time when the Jaredites came to the Americas from the flood, so I pointed out that this doesn't make sense when considered in light of what we know about the history of writing, which shows many languages that would've been unintelligible to one another used across a wide area many centuries before that date (and that is just their preserved written record; obviously they would've been spoken before being written, since writing itself is just the codification of a certain register of language in the form of little squiggles), so if they came as a result of the confusion of the tongues, then they must've waited or been delayed over half a millennia, for some reason.

I was trying to help you understand that to me, the BOM story is as real as Bible stories. And I gave you an example of the flood story. That is all. Besides if the flood really happened, your history of writing and language is all screwed up, and does not follow at all, after the flood. Of course I am not an expert, so see if what follows seems logical.

I am not a linguistics expert like you, but I have always believed that the flood wiped out all mankind except for 8 persons, around 2300bc. I believe that at that time on earth, the family of Noah all spoke the same language. Am I right?

So I would expect for at least a while (at least 60 years or so), the descendants of Noah's family would also speak the same language. So for a time, all the inhabitants of the earth would be speaking the same language.

Then after about 70 years of so, after the flood, Nimrod, a great-grandson of Noah, builds a city or two, and becomes a great leader of a large group of people. He says, let us build a tower so high that we cannot be destroyed again by flood waters. And so the people go to work and start building the tower of babel. (and remember that at this time, they all spoke the same language).

When the Lord saw the tower, he said let us go down and confuse the language of this people, and stop this stupid tower building. So they did go down and the people suddenly could not communicate with each other because of the confusion of languages.

This is the biblical story, right? As a linguist expert, is the bible speaking the truth about the confusion of languages or is that a fairy tale? Is the time-line right, or am I way off?

You're now moving on from that to something about the flood. Why? Is it that you see that the 2150 BC date doesn't work? That would be a good sign, if so.

Now this is 1 of 2 places that the BOM story intertwines with the Bible. Jared and his family and friends are lead away from the tower of Babel by the Lord to a safe place by the sea and build barges and are guided to the Americas. The time frame for their arrival on the east side of Mexico is about 2200bc. A few years after the confusion of the languages at the tower of Babel.

So to me the 2150-2200bc works well with the bilbilical story of the tower of Babel being around 2200bc.

How could Mexico, or any other land, be re-inhabited before 2150-2200bc?

So again, we are not experts, but it looks like this timeline works for the BOM story.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Once again what JS says doesn't add up----=it is not what the spirits are made up of that is the problem---it is our eyes. It says right there, even by JS---can't be seen by our eyes.

2Ki_6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Num_24:4 He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
2Ki_6:20 And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, LORD, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the LORD opened their eyes, and they saw; and, behold, they were in the midst of Samaria.

Come on---- you really think that God changes what these beings and everything around them is changed in order for us to see them? It is our eyes that are opened---not their structure. For a few minutes God changes our eyes and we can see them. We have no idea what they are made of, but when our eyes have been opened, people end up prostrated on the ground in fear and amazement. To say that they have this kind of matter or that kind makes no sense---nobody knows, but God has designed our eyes that for now, they can not see these things. JS has no idea of what God's realm is about. And He certainly has no idea what God the Father or the Holy Spirit is made of. Jesus was seen after His resurrection and felt, and after our resurrection we will have a glorified body, but none knows exactly what the inner structure of those bodies will be, and Jesus will always be of a different structure from us for His is divine and we never will be. It is not knowing that JS doesn't like, he is so arrogant as to think he has to know everything and he has made up stuff, or Satan has confused him, and he doesn't know what he is talking about.
I love the story of Elisha and the Lord opening the eyes of the young man with Elisha. You are right, our eyes need to be open to see the spirit world.

If JS says spirit is made of 'refined matter', what is that to you. Just say what you said and that's all we can say. You either believe him or you don't. It is interesting to me that he would be bold enough to make a statement about the makeup of the spirits that make up the spirit world. And that's all.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Once again, Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus does not include keeping the commandments as being part of the Gospel. The fault of not reconciling that truth is with those who refuse to see is quite frankly folks like yourself.

You need to be willing to accept that nowhere does Jesus include "keeping the commandments" as part of the Gospel … only "faith\believe".
If the scriptures clearly teach what you say, we would not be having this discussion.

To me the scriptures clearly teach a much wider gospel than you are willing to accept. A gospel that does clearly teach that after you have believed, you must participate with Jesus in doing what he has instructed you to do.

You don't get to just settle in to your TV set and shut out the world and think that your belief will get you into heaven. That is not the whole gospel. If it were the bible would be 1 page long and everyone would know exactly all of the gospel. But it is much longer than 1 page, all with the intent of guiding you to salvation.

IOW you must believe all the words of Jesus, not just those that are contained in your "gospel".

So answer me this, can we ignore the words of Jesus that he gave in the sermon on the mount?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Did you actually read this article before linking to it? Because those differences are between the earlier estimates made with carbon dating ('earlier' relative to 1990, when the article was written) and the then-more current estimates made with Uranium-Thorium dating, a more accurate method. Even then, in the crucial paragraph where the errors are spoken about, we are told the following:

Dr. Alan Zindler, a professor of geology at Columbia University who is a member of the Lamont-Doherty research group, said age estimates using the carbon dating and uranium-thorium dating differed only slightly for the period from 9,000 years ago to the present. ''But at earlier times, the carbon dates were substantially younger than the dates we estimated by uranium-thorium analysis,'' he said. ''The largest deviation, 3,500 years, was obtained for samples that are about 20,000 years old.''​

So they differ only slightly for a period dating 9,000 years ago until the present (1990). Since 9,000 years ago is approximately 7000 BC -- long before either the earliest evidence of writing in the late 26th century BC or the arbitrarily chosen date of 2150 BC, this really doesn't have any bearing on anything we're talking about.

There's also this from the article (emphasis added):

Carbon dating is unreliable for objects older than about 30,000 years, but uranium-thorium dating may be possible for objects up to half a million years old, Dr. Zindler said. The method is less suitable, however, for land animals and plants than for marine organisms, because uranium is plentiful in sea water but less so in most soils.​

Since there are no currently known examples of bona fide writing (not proto-writing) dating to older than 30,000 years ago (not even close; again, the earliest extant writing is from the 26th century BC, so writing itself is only about 4,600 years old...even if we round that off to an even 5,000 or double its length in anticipation of future discoveries, it's still nothing close to 30,000 years ago), these deviations -- even if they may be 16,500 years off -- do not impact the point I was making.

"clearly the majority of leading creationists today, think there are good reasons to conclude that Genesis 5 and 11 are strict chronologies with no missing names or years. Hence, Adam and Eve (along with the whole universe) were created a little over 6,000 years ago."

From: When Was Adam Created?


In contrast there are articles like this:

Earliest Human Remains Outside Africa Were Just Discovered in Israel | Science | Smithsonian

You can believe in the scientific dating methods, I don't.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I love the story of Elisha and the Lord opening the eyes of the young man with Elisha. You are right, our eyes need to be open to see the spirit world.

If JS says spirit is made of 'refined matter', what is that to you. Just say what you said and that's all we can say. You either believe him or you don't. It is interesting to me that he would be bold enough to make a statement about the makeup of the spirits that make up the spirit world. And that's all.

What is it to me?---He says he got His information from God. God considered a false prophet so heinous that He said they should be stoned. To you he was told by God---to me---no He didn't tell JS anything.
Nobody know knows all there is to know about matter and they know nothing about "dark matter."
Sorry, but he was making up stuff from what was known then. Like all that stuff about the moon being inhabited---if that doesn't tell you he is not a prophet of God, nothing will.

Brigham Young expanded on the teaching that the Sun was inhabited.
“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?… when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fathers. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized”.8

The sun was not created to be inhabited, nor the moon---this planet in this galaxy was. God put them there for lights along with the stars---There are other galaxies out there with unfallen worlds, but not this one.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

False prophets.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
What is it to me?---He says he got His information from God. God considered a false prophet so heinous that He said they should be stoned. To you he was told by God---to me---no He didn't tell JS anything.
Nobody know knows all there is to know about matter and they know nothing about "dark matter."
Sorry, but he was making up stuff from what was known then. Like all that stuff about the moon being inhabited---if that doesn't tell you he is not a prophet of God, nothing will.

Brigham Young expanded on the teaching that the Sun was inhabited.
“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?… when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fathers. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized”.8

The sun was not created to be inhabited, nor the moon---this planet in this galaxy was. God put them there for lights along with the stars---There are other galaxies out there with unfallen worlds, but not this one.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

False prophets.
Well, JS said spirit is made up of 'refined matter'. We will just have to wait and see if he was right.

BY may have had a personal belief that there was life on the moon and sun. That is different than "the Lord told me" there was life on the moon and sun.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

twin.spin

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
May 1, 2010
797
266
✟72,766.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
.
If the scriptures clearly teach what you say, we would not be having this discussion.
It's not a matter of if, Scriptures do indeed clearly teach. All of Biblical Christendom holds to the same core beliefs which is why I don't have discussions like this with those who hold to the truth.

To me the scriptures clearly teach a much wider gospel than you are willing to accept. A gospel that does clearly teach that after you have believed, you must participate with Jesus in doing what he has instructed you to do.
The reason Biblical Christianity does not accept Mormonism's "wider gospel" is evident enough … it leads to outer darkness.
You don't get to just settle in to your TV set and shut out the world and think that your belief will get you into heaven. That is not the whole gospel. If it were the bible would be 1 page long and everyone would know exactly all of the gospel. But it is much longer than 1 page, all with the intent of guiding you to salvation.
And the ironic thing about your statement is … the Bible isn't enough, is it?
Ride yourself of Mormonism's so-called scriptures and stick only to the Bible and it might just help.

IOW you must believe all the words of Jesus, not just those that are contained in your "gospel".
It's not a matter of believing all of Jesus' words … it's the proper application and usage that escapes those who are trapped in Mormonism.
So answer me this, can we ignore the words of Jesus that he gave in the sermon on the mount?
You probably should concern yourself that you're ignoring Jesus' words as held in Biblical Christianity first as to faith alone. (not to mention that any other so-called "wider gospel" is in fact no gospel at all but is one of many paths that leads to outer darkness.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BigDaddy4
Upvote 0

twin.spin

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
May 1, 2010
797
266
✟72,766.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Yes what Jesus said is indeed very clear. His word is the gospel.
Then you can expect a tragic ending to outer darkness for rejecting and continually opposing Biblical Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Then you can expect a tragic ending to outer darkness for rejecting and continually opposing Biblical Christianity.
I do not reject what Jesus said:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:40 - 46)

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
Upvote 0

twin.spin

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
May 1, 2010
797
266
✟72,766.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
I do not reject what Jesus said:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:40 - 46)

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Not only Mormonism rejects … it twists Jesus' revealed word into the false gospel that it is.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Not only Mormonism rejects … it twists Jesus' revealed word into the false gospel that it is.
There are people who cherry pick and twist the scriptures, but not the members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
What is it to me?---He says he got His information from God. God considered a false prophet so heinous that He said they should be stoned. To you he was told by God---to me---no He didn't tell JS anything.
Nobody know knows all there is to know about matter and they know nothing about "dark matter."
Sorry, but he was making up stuff from what was known then. Like all that stuff about the moon being inhabited---if that doesn't tell you he is not a prophet of God, nothing will.

Brigham Young expanded on the teaching that the Sun was inhabited.
“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?… when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fathers. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized”.8

The sun was not created to be inhabited, nor the moon---this planet in this galaxy was. God put them there for lights along with the stars---There are other galaxies out there with unfallen worlds, but not this one.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

False prophets.
Read this article about BY and life on the moon and the sun. If you are a truth seeker I believe you will find it here.

Question: Did Brigham Young actually teach that the sun and the moon were inhabited? - FairMormon
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
There are people who cherry pick and twist the scriptures, but not the members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

twin.spin,

You say that we twist Jesus's revealed word into a false gospel. I would like to take the
John 14:21 scripture from 'He is the way' and use it for our discussion.

This scripture stands alone without any messaging from us. Jesus is simply saying that he that hath my commandments and keepeth them, loveth me and loveth my Father also, and we will manifest ourselves unto these people.

This is straight forward words from Jesus, no JS, just Jesus. Here is the real question: Do you believe this scripture as part of your gospel?
 
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,500
13,648
✟426,176.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Read this article about BY and life on the moon and the sun. If you are a truth seeker I believe you will find it here.

Question: Did Brigham Young actually teach that the sun and the moon were inhabited? - FairMormon

The very first quote from BY in that article is:

"So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain."

Sure it's an opinion, but it's one he seemed rather certain of, despite its insanity.

 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
.
It's not a matter of if, Scriptures do indeed clearly teach. All of Biblical Christendom holds to the same core beliefs which is why I don't have discussions like this with those who hold to the truth.

Don't kid yourself, that is the very reason you are not a Methodist. They don't believe the same things you believe. That is why you are not a Roman Catholic, or a Oriental Orthodox member.
They all believe differently than you. Their gospels are all different than yours.

The reason Biblical Christianity does not accept Mormonism's "wider gospel" is evident enough … it leads to outer darkness.

So if I believe in the biblical scripture of John 14:21, and scriptures like it, and I do not believe in just 'faith alone', am I headed for outer darkness?

And the ironic thing about your statement is … the Bible isn't enough, is it?
Ride yourself of Mormonism's so-called scriptures and stick only to the Bible and it might just help.

If you were a Jew in the first 2 centuries, you would have never converted to Christianity, because you would have stuck to the bible (OT) and rejected the radical Jesus Christ and his followers that were writing letters to their members, and these letters were being compiled by the churches as a sort of rival of the bible (OT). How sick was that. The Christians were saying that the bible (OT) was not enough, they want to expand their belief system to include these letters from their leaders. How ironic that the bible (OT) is not enough for them. They should rid themselves of these so-called scriptures and stick only to the bible (OT) and it might just help.

Well as it turns out, the bible (OT) was not enough, God had much more to say and teach people than what was contained in the bible (OT). But many Jews stuck with their bible (OT) and never have come to know the joy of the things that Jesus and the apostles taught, and are not going to receive the blessings of the real gospel.

You are like a 1st century Jew, in the 21st century. Jesus has much more to teach you and bless you with.

It's not a matter of believing all of Jesus' words … it's the proper application and usage that escapes those who are trapped in Mormonism.

So is this the proper application and usage of John 14:21? Since John 14:21 teaches us to keep the commandments of Jesus, it is outside the gospel of 'faith only', therefore we are able to ignore it completely. Jesus will understand. Or, is there another explanation?

You probably should concern yourself that you're ignoring Jesus' words as held in Biblical Christianity first as to faith alone. (not to mention that any other so-called "wider gospel" is in fact no gospel at all but is one of many paths that leads to outer darkness.)

This is a response to my question: can we ignore the words of Jesus that he gave in the sermon on the mount? You responded by saying there is a biblical Christianity that is different than the words given to us by Jesus in the sermon on the mount. That biblical Christianity is called 'faith alone'.
Only the doctrine of 'faith alone' can save you. So is that the proper application and usage of all of the words of Jesus? I don't think so.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
The very first quote from BY in that article is:

"So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain."

Sure it's an opinion, but it's one he seemed rather certain of, despite its insanity.

Yes it does, but that is just 1/2 the story.

The question is: in the 1800's was it that insane to believe there was life on the moon or the sun?

I will let William Herschel, the non-Mormon preeminent astrologer (scientist) of the day answer your question:
Herschel was not a raving amateur. A gifted astronomer, he discovered Uranus, and was the first to realize that sunlight included infrared light as well as visible light. His sister, Caroline, became famous in her own right for discovering comets, so he did not lack for intelligent conversation. He just had his own theories. Herschel believed that life existed on every celestial body in the universe. He was aware that the sun people saw was too hot to support life. He just assumed there was something underneath that burning atmosphere. When he observed sunspots, he believed that they were openings in the atmosphere, or perhaps mountains, and that if people could get a close look at the planet beneath, they would be able to spot signs of life. Herschel was not alone in his beliefs - as more information on the sun turned up, astronomers speculated on how it would affect life on the surface of the sun, and what kind of life might survive in those environments.[3]

I guess you didn't read this non-Mormon scientist's commentary.

I suspect in the 1800's most people believed there was life on the moon and even the sun. So BY had his own private opinion too, and he believed the preeminent non-Mormon Astrologer of the day, and said he "rather thought there was life there".

IOW the anti-BY (half of the story) slander turns out to be a nothingburger.

The Church of Jesus Christ has always been fairly accommodating to science. We believe that one day the church and science will agree 100% with each other.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.